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Why the Anti-Science Creationist Movement Is


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#31    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 07:08 PM

I believe in teaching the basics  of  science to a child ...

So far I have begun  to teach my daughter about how the universe began and what happened after it.. How long ago,  how old the earth is  and so on

He is getting the hang of it...  But then said to me -  "Mommy, I cannot tell this to my teacher, because my teacher  tells us  God did it and it is in the bible..."

I told her  I understood ..so we agreed to teach it all at home...  I guess sometimes a parent  has to ..especially if their child attends a Christian school that will push creation...  Where live it is hard not to see a Christian school  for children...  

I'll explain why  she has to attend a Christian school...   Firstly  she is a member of the Seagoe  Church..  But in saying that,  when you go to apply for  a primary school in your area, you are told to pick up to  6 primary school within 10 miles  of your home...( for convenience   I guess)..   So you nominate  6 primary schools ...And  you will notice that  when you look through the long list of primary school in the county where you live, they are either Catholic  or Protestant primary school..... You may well find  one inter graded school , but usually those positions are quickly filled ..So you re left with Hobsons  choice  and hope to get one that is close enough to home for convenience ...Living in N.Ireland  it is mostly based on Christianity

When  the child is ready for high school, things  change...They are  then  allowed to study  physics  and learn more..  There is no restrictions

I want  my daughter to at least know the basics.. but  unfortunately due to  how the teachers in her primary school lay heavy on creationism.. we have to keep it a secret and just teach Evolution at home

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#32    J. K.

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 08:53 PM

View Postaquatus1, on 07 March 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

These days, however, I considered that the proponents may actually have considered a Noah's Ark type of scenario, and to my sheer horror...I was not able to entirely dismiss the possibility.

I can guarantee you 100% that such an Ark idea is not being considered by any major religious group in the U.S.   There's absolutely no Biblical reason for that to be a consideration.

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#33    aquatus1

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:38 PM

I stopped looking for reason in Biblical decisions a long time ago.  I find that people who have come to a hard decision regarding what God wants them to do do not care about logic in any respect, be it logical secular arguments, or logical biblical arguments.


#34    White Crane Feather

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 11:48 AM

View PostDavid Benjamin, on 06 March 2012 - 05:30 AM, said:

Lol, when you use your brain you realize where the notion of god comes from and why theists are theists (non logical thought processes). You don't believe in science, science is not a fairy tale, science is based on facts, a fact is real weather you believe in it or not.
If you use your brain and read a little you would realize the beleif in a spirit world and subsequently a divine great spirit is perfectly logical. Human beings have all of history of spiritual experiences to draw from. You may not agree with the nature of those experiences, but they happen. I see this all the time. NDEs, OBEs, and other experiential phenomenon Happen and will continue to happen. Beliefs in spirit come from these experiences. It's not some logical fallacy.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#35    Beany

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 02:57 PM

I'm considering the the idea of an informed energy that permeates the universe as opposed to a more humanistic god, and that perhaps quantum physics with its ideas of a multiverse, etc. may eventually be able to explain these "mystical" experiences. Maybe science just doesn't have all the information it needs right now to do so.


#36    FurthurBB

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 06:12 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 08 March 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

If you use your brain and read a little you would realize the beleif in a spirit world and subsequently a divine great spirit is perfectly logical. Human beings have all of history of spiritual experiences to draw from. You may not agree with the nature of those experiences, but they happen. I see this all the time. NDEs, OBEs, and other experiential phenomenon Happen and will continue to happen. Beliefs in spirit come from these experiences. It's not some logical fallacy.

Yeah, but it really goes back to not understanding how things work.  Even with NDEs which are obviously some kind of natural neurological phenomenon.  Truthfully, it makes sense to me.  We all know that our brain will lie to us if it cannot understand the information it is receiving or if it receives conflicting signals.  The signaling during general anesthesia administration, which causes the most reported cases of NDEs is seriously messed up, which is why it works.  Your brain is trying to do what it does, take in signals and extrapolate information and responses, but it cannot understand the signals.  Some earlier anesthetics were really dangerous because people would just stop breathing or the body was unable to maintain a constant body temperature because it was not receiving the proper signals for an appropriate response.  We know when you are dying that ion concentration regulation starts to fail, especially Ca2+, and all neuronal signals are dependent on proper ion concentrations and Ca2+ controls the release of neurotransmitters.  OBEs could also have something to do with misfiring of neurons.  If you notice they usually happen to certain people over and over again.


#37    karmakazi

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 07:26 PM

View PostHilander, on 13 September 2011 - 03:22 PM, said:

I think you can believe in creationism and still believe in science, technology and climate change.  God gave us a brain, did he not expect us to use it.

This got me thinking about how the only people who seem to endorse ignorance are the very people who stand to gain (money, power, etc) from the ignorance of others.

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#38    White Crane Feather

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 08:42 PM

View PostFurthurBB, on 08 March 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

Yeah, but it really goes back to not understanding how things work.  Even with NDEs which are obviously some kind of natural neurological phenomenon.  Truthfully, it makes sense to me.  We all know that our brain will lie to us if it cannot understand the information it is receiving or if it receives conflicting signals.  The signaling during general anesthesia administration, which causes the most reported cases of NDEs is seriously messed up, which is why it works.  Your brain is trying to do what it does, take in signals and extrapolate information and responses, but it cannot understand the signals.  Some earlier anesthetics were really dangerous because people would just stop breathing or the body was unable to maintain a constant body temperature because it was not receiving the proper signals for an appropriate response.  We know when you are dying that ion concentration regulation starts to fail, especially Ca2+, and all neuronal signals are dependent on proper ion concentrations and Ca2+ controls the release of neurotransmitters.  OBEs could also have something to do with misfiring of neurons.  If you notice they usually happen to certain people over and over again.
I'm not arguing what an OBE or NDE is. The point is that beleif in the spirit is not a logical fallacy. When you find yourself floating above your body what whatching doctors do stuff to you, then you have a life review and meet dear old deceased grandpa that tells you to go back. It would seem a very logical conclusion that an after life exists. The only reason you wouldnt is if you are already faithful to the materilist paradime. Furthermore when you tell people that trust you and know you are not a liar, they might start to accept the same conclusion. No amount of unprooven scientific conjecture and jargon can trump the experience. You say well now we know better, but not everyone does, nor does everyone that knows agrees. there is nothing illogical, creative, or wishful about it. It is what it is reguardless of how you want to define it. The materialist paradime ends at certain boundaries. This means that all of reality is built on unknowns.

Edited by Seeker79, 08 March 2012 - 08:44 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#39    simplybill

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:31 PM

I used to "believe" in evolution. Science and probability changed my mind. The invention of the electron microscope has shown us how infinitely complex the world is. The belief that organic compounds can randomly organize into complex, self-aware creatures is statistically improbable.
The next generation of electron microscopes will reveal an even greater complexity. The deeper we go, the less probable the "randomness" becomes.

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#40    FurthurBB

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 11:22 PM

View Postsimplybill, on 08 March 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

I used to "believe" in evolution. Science and probability changed my mind. The invention of the electron microscope has shown us how infinitely complex the world is. The belief that organic compounds can randomly organize into complex, self-aware creatures is statistically improbable.
The next generation of electron microscopes will reveal an even greater complexity. The deeper we go, the less probable the "randomness" becomes.


Well, it is funny how those same electron microscopes provide more and more evidence to evolution every day.  I guess you must understand what you are looking at.


#41    aquatus1

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 01:14 AM

**This topic is about how the anti-science movement presents a danger.  We do not need to rehash the atheism/theism or Cre vs. Evo arguments here.**

**Back on topic.**



#42    simplybill

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 01:35 AM

View Postaquatus1, on 09 March 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

**This topic is about how the anti-science movement presents a danger.  We do not need to rehash the atheism/theism or Cre vs. Evo arguments here.**

**Back on topic.**


The topic is: Why the Anti-Science Creationist Movement Is So Dangerous.
I assumed that Science and Creationism would be included in the discussion.
I apologize if I misunderstood.

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#43    aquatus1

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 02:00 AM

You did misunderstand.  The topic is not about your personal beliefs regarding the validity of either.  It is about how those beliefs create (or do not create) a danger.


#44    simplybill

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 03:41 AM

View Postaquatus1, on 09 March 2012 - 02:00 AM, said:

You did misunderstand.  The topic is not about your personal beliefs regarding the validity of either.  It is about how those beliefs create (or do not create) a danger.
(Okay, I stand corrected. I appreciate your diligence in keeping a good discussion on topic.)

Scientists and Theologians are often unfairly and unjustly pigeonholed into accepting and promoting only certain beliefs. Both groups have a history of disfellowshipping anyone who disagrees with a popular theory or doctrine.

Those of us who ARE NOT Scientists or Theologians also experience this when we refuse to swear blind allegiance to either camp.

Herein lies the danger (as per the topic): A scientist wearing blinders is just as dangerous, in my opinion, as the theologian wearing blinders.

The use of electron microscopes should have opened up new possibilities for reseachers, rather than further pigeonholing them into an increasingly improbable theory. Now that's dangerous.

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#45    ninjadude

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 04:05 AM

View Postsimplybill, on 08 March 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

I used to "believe" in evolution. Science and probability changed my mind. The invention of the electron microscope has shown us how infinitely complex the world is. The belief that organic compounds can randomly organize into complex, self-aware creatures is statistically improbable.
The next generation of electron microscopes will reveal an even greater complexity. The deeper we go, the less probable the "randomness" becomes.

Whoops Aquatus. And here I was just about to describe to this poster how evolution is not random.

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