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Dramatisation of 1961 alien abduction


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#31    morrison1976

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 11:08 PM

View PostDBunker, on 25 September 2011 - 07:25 PM, said:

Belief systems has nothing to do with it..... Its called The Scientific Method.... Google it.  :tu:


Quit looking at the scientific method as if its some kind of religon. Scientific method has been flawed in the passed, and is flawed now. Why can't you see that? Making up stupid explanations for some ufo cases is not scientific method. Its just arrogant and ignorant people who can't handle the fact that they are wrong, and things sometimes don't have an explanation.

Belief system has everything to do with it, but you are so wrapped up in your religon, that you can't see it.

I will ask you aain. What "wacky" things do you believe in?

Edited by morrison1976, 25 September 2011 - 11:10 PM.


#32    Hawkin

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 12:09 AM

View PostDBunker, on 25 September 2011 - 03:40 PM, said:

Back in the days people all over the world saw and believed in witches. Heck, they even executed a couple of 100 000 people for it.... did that make witches real?


No. I believe that this sort of stuff has more to do with the human psyche than anything else.

If one believes it's aliens, human psyche or magic mushrooms... it's still all speculation from all sides.


It's good to have some skepticism so you won't be gullible & naïve. But to much skepticism
can make you narrow minded to all possibilities no matter how unconventional.

#33    Hawkin

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 12:17 AM

View PostThe Skeptic Eric Raven, on 25 September 2011 - 04:01 PM, said:

Millions dont report it. Where do you get that crap? :rolleyes:


I get this through a technique called RESEARCH. Ever heard of it???

It's good to have some skepticism so you won't be gullible & naïve. But to much skepticism
can make you narrow minded to all possibilities no matter how unconventional.

#34    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 12:45 AM

View Postmorrison1976, on 25 September 2011 - 11:08 PM, said:

Quit looking at the scientific method as if its some kind of religon. Scientific method has been flawed in the passed, and is flawed now. Why can't you see that? Making up stupid explanations for some ufo cases is not scientific method. Its just arrogant and ignorant people who can't handle the fact that they are wrong, and things sometimes don't have an explanation.

Belief system has everything to do with it, but you are so wrapped up in your religon, that you can't see it.

I will ask you aain. What "wacky" things do you believe in?

Making up explanations has nothing to do with science at all.  Very few people have ever studied UFOs in a truly scientific manner, although Dr. James McDonald was an exception.  This is what he said about UFOs in 1967:


"There is now a clear indication that the number of reports of observations, at short distance and low altitude, of absolutely strange aerial objects, having the appearance of machines and whose performances show unexplainable characteristics, increased in the few years that have just passed. It is certainly apparent inside the United States. I have the strong impression that the same increase appears in many foreign territories. My own studies led me to reject the opinion according to which they are only natural atmospheric phenomena or misinterpreted astronomical phenomena; in this respect a number of official explanations are almost absurdly erroneous. It is not possible anymore to explain all these observations with assumptions calling upon the products of a technology of avant-garde or experimental secret craft, with assumptions of mystification, fraud or trickery, or with psychological assumptions.

Each one of these assumptions intervenes indeed in a great number of cases, but there still remains an astonishing number of other reports, submitted by observers highly worthy of faith during the two last decades, which cannot receive such a satisfactory explanation. I believe that this vast residue of reports, which amounts now to hundreds and perhaps thousands of cases, requires the attention of the most eminent scientists of the world. However, because of the official mocking remark that journalists, and even scientist, largely spread, almost no scientific attention is currently granted to this problem."


http://www.ufoeviden...nts/doc1056.htm

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#35    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 12:49 AM

View PostHazzard, on 25 September 2011 - 10:39 PM, said:

Based on a true story.
Posted Image


I bet that's you in the picture, too.  

It's certainly one of the most intelligent comments that I've seen from you on here. LOL.  That's not a terribly high standard, though, Hazzard's One-Line Commentary on UFOs.

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#36    Hawkin

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 12:55 AM

Stanton Friedman is a well educated man on the subject of UFO's. His website stantonfriedman.com


#37    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 01:04 AM

One thing the "skeptics" will never tell you about this case, but the UFO that Betty and Barney Hill saw was also tracked on radar at two air force bases that night.  Nor do they mention that the Hills filed a report about their UFO sighting at Pease Air Force Base.  In fact, the Hill case should be considered a classic radar-visual case, with witnesses who even claimed contact with the UFO "occupants".

It's even in the Blue Book files, which tried to write it off as a "weather balloon" and later "Jupiter", "optical illusions", "temperature inversions" and finally "insufficient data"--very original--except that it wasn't true.  No one in charge of Blue Book ever got brownie points for unknown or unexplained UFOs, however, so they had to "solve" them in any way possible.  Needless to say, real scientific investigations are not carried out in this ridiculous manner.

In fact, no on-the-spot investigation was done by Blue Book at all, which made these "explanations" up as they went along.


http://www.nicap.org...rts/0450-74.htm


One of the Blue Book reports was filed by the base intelligence officer on September 21, 1961, after he spoke with the Hills.  In fact, at that level, they Air Force seemed very interested in the Hills sighting and even recorded their phone calls, although so far as I know those recordings from 1961 have never been made public?  What do you guys DO with all these films, recordings and radar tracks, Hazzard, that's what I'd really like to know.  Where are they?

"SEPT. 21 Major Paul Anderson, Intelligence Officer for the 100th Bomb Group, Pease AFB, calls back, says he has stayed up all night working on a report of this incident. Asked Barney for the size of the object. Barney says it appeared as big as a dinner plate held at arms length. Major Anderson filed a report with Blue Book, #100-1-61."


http://www.ufo-bbs.com/txt3/2702.htm

Edited by TheMcGuffin, 26 September 2011 - 01:11 AM.

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#38    Mr. E.

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 02:25 AM

I'd also like to point out that as over the Hill Case as I am that Mc Guffin makes a good point and "as far as I know" there was no anal probing involved in the Hill Case.
My main issue here isnt that there is going to be another film; its that there is going to be another film that is going to attract and inpsire about a thousand times as many hoaxers as we've seen flood into the community at once in the history of Ufology.  We might even see viral marketing that will need to be debunked and no doubt cause at least one massive drama.  With the technology easily available in your home today this film if it becomes a blockbuster it could deal a crippling blow to serious researchers all over the world.  Sure, dont get me wrong.  It might be exciting to suddenly have a huge flux of new UFO reports but its going to be disheartening and frustrating when 90% of them suddenly turn out to be hoaxes and about 8% of the remaining are suspected hoaxes you just don't know how to prove yet.

The other thing is that this story has so much exposure.  I have not learned anything new from the Hill Case in nearly 10 years.  Which is good in one way and offers credibility to their account and/or tenacity.  However there are hundreds of alleged abduction cases each year, some with eye witness accounts others with physical evidence, and many of these stories are glossed over or eclipsed because of just how in your face the "famous" accounts are.  Besides what came out of Communion, which after reading it I am quite sure was a flat out lie, there aren't many abduction stories that get a lot of attention.

I think the best "True UFO Story" that I've seen adapted to film was Fire in the Sky.  Don't get me wrong there are some pretty Hollywood moments in the film but overall it was entertaining and for the most part believable.  I would love to see more media about Alien Abduction, but I'd like it to be good, and with so many stories out there it just seems dull to keep retelling the same one over and over and over... and over... and over... and over...

Edited by Mr. E., 26 September 2011 - 02:27 AM.

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#39    Hawkin

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 05:17 AM

There is another case involving 4 college students back in the mid 70's called "The Allagash Incident" where 4 friends were doing some night fishing in the Allagash Waterway in Maine and a ball of light approached them on the lake while fishing. Google it.
Subjects like abductions should be viewd with an open mind rather then making swift judgements and by that I mean don't believe and don't disbelieve.  Afteral, it was once thought that the earth was flat but now we know it's more round. And it was once thought that the sun and planets revolved around the earth. My point...keep an open mind to possibilities. Even though we have been conditioned to believe on what's science or religion and thinking everything else is Taboo.


#40    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 05:24 AM

View PostDBunker, on 25 September 2011 - 05:29 PM, said:

When serching for answers to these paranormal phenomenon I always turn to science. In most of the cases there is nothing to investigate... all we have is a story.

Thats where belief comes in, and thats where it all ends for me. Hoax or not.

Like my sig says - I want to know not just to belief.

Hynek and James McDonald found quite a bit to investigate, but I agree that you're not in their league--not even close.

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#41    psyche101

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 05:54 AM

View PostRyegrog, on 26 September 2011 - 12:55 AM, said:

Stanton Friedman is a well educated man on the subject of UFO's. His website stantonfriedman.com


I take it that you have not read his latest book then.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#42    psyche101

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 05:59 AM

View Postmorrison1976, on 25 September 2011 - 11:08 PM, said:

Quit looking at the scientific method as if its some kind of religon. Scientific method has been flawed in the passed, and is flawed now. Why can't you see that?


I do not believe it is flawed, science is fluid to compensate for that very problem of which science is aware.

Quote

Scientific method refers to a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge.

As new information becomes available, old information is corrected, as long as one stays on top of the latest developments, you can be assured of the best understanding of any given process. It differs greatly from religion in that religion has no accountability.


View Postmorrison1976, on 25 September 2011 - 11:08 PM, said:

Making up stupid explanations for some ufo cases is not scientific method. Its just arrogant and ignorant people who can't handle the fact that they are wrong, and things sometimes don't have an explanation.

Yes indeed, but why can this not apply to stories of ET, which lets face it, in a very large number are no more than a fleeting glimpse.

View Postmorrison1976, on 25 September 2011 - 11:08 PM, said:

Belief system has everything to do with it, but you are so wrapped up in your religon, that you can't see it.

Belief has a strong influence on many things, it is why the ETH has persisted as long as it has, but empirical evidence is immune to belief systems.

View Postmorrison1976, on 25 September 2011 - 11:08 PM, said:

I will ask you aain. What "wacky" things do you believe in?

I think we all have a "whacky" side don't you?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#43    psyche101

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 06:03 AM

View PostTheMcGuffin, on 26 September 2011 - 01:04 AM, said:

One thing the "skeptics" will never tell you about this case, but the UFO that Betty and Barney Hill saw was also tracked on radar at two air force bases that night.  Nor do they mention that the Hills filed a report about their UFO sighting at Pease Air Force Base.  In fact, the Hill case should be considered a classic radar-visual case, with witnesses who even claimed contact with the UFO "occupants".

It's even in the Blue Book files, which tried to write it off as a "weather balloon" and later "Jupiter", "optical illusions", "temperature inversions" and finally "insufficient data"--very original--except that it wasn't true.  No one in charge of Blue Book ever got brownie points for unknown or unexplained UFOs, however, so they had to "solve" them in any way possible.  Needless to say, real scientific investigations are not carried out in this ridiculous manner.

In fact, no on-the-spot investigation was done by Blue Book at all, which made these "explanations" up as they went along.


http://www.nicap.org...rts/0450-74.htm


One of the Blue Book reports was filed by the base intelligence officer on September 21, 1961, after he spoke with the Hills.  In fact, at that level, they Air Force seemed very interested in the Hills sighting and even recorded their phone calls, although so far as I know those recordings from 1961 have never been made public?  What do you guys DO with all these films, recordings and radar tracks, Hazzard, that's what I'd really like to know.  Where are they?

"SEPT. 21 Major Paul Anderson, Intelligence Officer for the 100th Bomb Group, Pease AFB, calls back, says he has stayed up all night working on a report of this incident. Asked Barney for the size of the object. Barney says it appeared as big as a dinner plate held at arms length. Major Anderson filed a report with Blue Book, #100-1-61."


http://www.ufo-bbs.com/txt3/2702.htm


There are far too many amazing co-incidences like paper books and teletype machines that both this advanced race used, that humanity used during the period of the supposed abduction, for the Betty and Barney story to be considered as factual.
I have always felt that story was a classic possibility for fraud.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#44    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 06:15 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 26 September 2011 - 06:03 AM, said:

There are far too many amazing co-incidences like paper books and teletype machines that both this advanced race used, that humanity used during the period of the supposed abduction, for the Betty and Barney story to be considered as factual.
I have always felt that story was a classic possibility for fraud.

Then there were other things that didn't belong in 1961, such as amniocentesis and holographic images, along with weird aliens who didn't know what death was, or false teeth or the color yellow.

The part I am certain of is that the UFO sighting was very real, since Betty and Barney reported it to the police, and were then told to report it to the Air Force.  We have documentation about that, as well as the fact that the two air force bases tracked this UFO on radar.  I think the military knew this one was real.  As for what they recalled under hypnosis, well, that depends of your faith in hypnosis, doesn't it, and the accuracy of their memories.  I'm no expert on that, but the UFO was real enough and the military was interested in it.

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#45    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 06:41 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 26 September 2011 - 06:03 AM, said:

There are far too many amazing co-incidences like paper books and teletype machines that both this advanced race used, that humanity used during the period of the supposed abduction, for the Betty and Barney story to be considered as factual.
I have always felt that story was a classic possibility for fraud.

I would also add that Barney's reaction to this UFO experience was distinctly more negative than Betty's, in that he didn't want to believe any of it at all and kept trying to think of plausible explanations.  His fear also seems far deeper and more elemental than Betty's.  I am not qualified to play armchair psychologist, but I think it was the basic fear of a black man traveling alone at night with a white woman along country roads in the America of 1961, even in the "liberal" North--which was never really all that liberal.  In the South at that time, of course, such a trip would have been impossible, and very likely fatal.

So Barney was scared, such as his reaction to the UFO being that it looked like it had a "Nazi" commander, and the most frightening thing he said under hypnosis was "I'm going to get my gun", as he was looking at the UFO through field glasses.  So yes, whatever happened on that dark country road shook him very badly, damaged his health and very likely shortened his life.

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