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Dramatisation of 1961 alien abduction


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#331    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 10:09 PM

JANAP 146, from 1950 onward, has been been part of the UFO cover up.  Air Defense Command gets all these UFO reports and they have never been subject to Freedom of Information Act requests.





Edited by TheMcGuffin, 20 November 2011 - 10:13 PM.

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#332    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 10:25 PM

Under the Espionage Act, the U.S. government can hand out any penalty it feels like, up to and including 30 days in the electric chair.


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#333    DONTEATUS

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 10:40 PM

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#334    psyche101

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 11:27 PM

View PostTheMcGuffin, on 18 November 2011 - 10:13 AM, said:

Scowl would be well-advised to amend these comments, because he must know this is not an accurate picture of what really happened, either in this case or many others.

For example, does Scowl know the history of Joint Chiefs regulation JANAP-146 of 1954 and how airline pilots reacted to it?  If he doesn't, I'd suggest that he look it up.


Hi McGuffin


Problem is we still do not have the name of a single pilot who has been officially fired for speaking out about witnessing a UFO, and I m having a real hard time finding an official case.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#335    lost_shaman

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 11:30 PM

View PostTheMcGuffin, on 20 November 2011 - 10:25 PM, said:

Under the Espionage Act, the U.S. government can hand out any penalty it feels like, up to and including 30 days in the electric chair.

Not under chapter 37! Did you read chapter 37?

This is a typical over exaggeration on your part. Those sections of chapter 37 that relate to CIRVIS and MERINT define punishment of fines or imprisonment not exceeding 10 years.

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

#336    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 12:01 AM

View Postlost_shaman, on 20 November 2011 - 11:30 PM, said:

Not under chapter 37! Did you read chapter 37?

This is a typical over exaggeration on your part. Those sections of chapter 37 that relate to CIRVIS and MERINT define punishment of fines or imprisonment not exceeding 10 years.


Where have you been all this time?  You knew this information about JANAP and said nothing?  I'm the one who posted all this in the first place and you probably knew perfectly well that I was right about it, but that's not what's really important to you people, is it?

Edited by TheMcGuffin, 21 November 2011 - 12:04 AM.

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#337    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 12:02 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 20 November 2011 - 11:27 PM, said:

Hi McGuffin


Problem is we still do not have the name of a single pilot who has been officially fired for speaking out about witnessing a UFO, and I m having a real hard time finding an official case.


Even when I'm right about something I still get attacked by people like Scowl and LS.  They'd rather choke than admit that I was telling the truth.  It's downright sick.

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#338    psyche101

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 12:19 AM

View PostTheMcGuffin, on 21 November 2011 - 12:02 AM, said:

Even when I'm right about something I still get attacked by people like Scowl and LS.  They'd rather choke than admit that I was telling the truth.  It's downright sick.


Hey McGuffin

I am not trying to attack you, but was hoping you could help. I cannot find a straight up case where a Pilot was fired for speaking out about a UFO. Has this actually happened? I cannot remember a case, and am struggling to find a precedent, but have heard the claim many times. I just want to find out if there is any truth to it at all, as it does seem to be somewhat embellished. If cases exist, they most certainly are not common, but if these are the people seeing them as regularly as is claimed, surely it should not be so hard a task?

Edited by psyche101, 21 November 2011 - 12:21 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#339    booNyzarC

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 12:35 AM

View PostTheMcGuffin, on 21 November 2011 - 12:02 AM, said:

Even when I'm right about something I still get attacked by people like Scowl and LS.  They'd rather choke than admit that I was telling the truth.  It's downright sick.
Nobody is attacking you McGuffin.  Scowl and LS are engaging you in debate because your interpretation of JANAP 146 doesn't appear to be consistent with the actual content of JANAP 146 and as psyche is respectfully pointing out, we haven't seen any examples of this punishment you claim pilots would be subject to for reporting UFOs.  Can you provide some examples?


#340    lost_shaman

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 01:04 AM

View PostTheMcGuffin, on 21 November 2011 - 12:01 AM, said:

Where have you been all this time?  You knew this information about JANAP and said nothing?  I'm the one who posted all this in the first place and you probably knew perfectly well that I was right about it, but that's not what's really important to you people, is it?

Err... You are not right about it. What you've posted is incorrect. Again read Title 18, chapter 37, § 793. A person must have "intent or reason to believe that the information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation,".Clearly that would not apply to someone talking about a UFO sighting days or weeks after the fact.


ETA: Also look at JANAP 146 itself. It's left up to the "opinion of the observer" to determine whether a sighting is of "vital importance to the security of the United States of America and Canada and their armed forces" and "requires prompt defensive and/or investigative action by
the US and/or Canadian Armed Forces.". Bold emphasis mine, underline emphasis original to text.

Edited by lost_shaman, 21 November 2011 - 01:24 AM.

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#341    mcrom901

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 03:04 AM

imo you guys are missing a very crucial point here i.e. whilst all those cirvis reports were being collected, there were claims that...

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#342    mcrom901

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 03:12 AM

View Postlost_shaman, on 21 November 2011 - 01:04 AM, said:

Err... You are not right about it. What you've posted is incorrect. Again read Title 18, chapter 37, 793. A person must have "intent or reason to believe that the information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation,".Clearly that would not apply to someone talking about a UFO sighting days or weeks after the fact.

that + the unavailability of any such reports indicates that simply none were ever made...

B)


#343    DENNISSTARR

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 06:00 AM

The hard facts are out there but are being kept from us.  Many members of government entities such as the military,etc. are not at liberty to discuss their experiences, scope of their duties, places they have been,etc.  Not to mention compartmentalization of the classified which gives need to know only what you need to know to do your job.  

My father came unglued when I began to talk about the HARP System.  He almost physically attacked me until I told him that it was in a "Popular Science" article.  To him this was if you don't need to know and you do you must die.  He was a Load Master in the 70's and 80's, crossed trained from being a Physician's Assistant.


#344    booNyzarC

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 06:04 AM

View PostDENNISSTARR, on 21 November 2011 - 06:00 AM, said:

The hard facts are out there but are being kept from us.  Many members of government entities such as the military,etc. are not at liberty to discuss their experiences, scope of their duties, places they have been,etc.  Not to mention compartmentalization of the classified which gives need to know only what you need to know to do your job.  

My father came unglued when I began to talk about the HARP System.  He almost physically attacked me until I told him that it was in a "Popular Science" article.  To him this was if you don't need to know and you do you must die.  He was a Load Master in the 70's and 80's, crossed trained from being a Physician's Assistant.
And the bogeyman is in your closet too.  Either there or under your bed.  And if not there... well, I'm sure he's hiding somewhere and I'd bet the government is behind the whole damn thing! :rolleyes:


#345    psyche101

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 06:20 AM

View PostDENNISSTARR, on 21 November 2011 - 06:00 AM, said:

The hard facts are out there but are being kept from us.  Many members of government entities such as the military,etc. are not at liberty to discuss their experiences, scope of their duties, places they have been,etc.  Not to mention compartmentalization of the classified which gives need to know only what you need to know to do your job.  

I do not know, we also hear Pilots get fired for speaking out about UFO's, I have to say I am having a hard time finding a single soul that has been subject to such though. Can you prove this is the case?

View PostDENNISSTARR, on 21 November 2011 - 06:00 AM, said:

My father came unglued when I began to talk about the HARP System.  He almost physically attacked me until I told him that it was in a "Popular Science" article.  To him this was if you don't need to know and you do you must die.  He was a Load Master in the 70's and 80's, crossed trained from being a Physician's Assistant.


And he did not know it was in Popular Science? Do you think some of these guys might have been fed stories of over importance by their superiors?

Edited by psyche101, 21 November 2011 - 06:20 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.





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