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Adam and Eve


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#16    Ciss

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 02:57 PM

View Postsonofman, on 06 October 2011 - 05:47 AM, said:

Cis, I'm well aware that the "God" of the Old Testament did all these things you mention and more.  And I'm not at all convinced he was God the Creator.  The details in Exodus make it very clear that technology was being used, just as the increasingly popular "Ancient Aliens" theory states.  And I'm not at all convinced that the Father of Jesus was this being.   Whoever he was, though, he might have had what he considered to be good reason to do all that "cleaning house" if you will, given the history of this planet.  I'm referring to the absolute mess that was created by the "sons of God" who came down here before the flood and, through genetic engineering, created every mix of human and animal imaginable, and giants also, to the point where the flood became necessary to reset and start over.  But we're also told that even after the flood, more meddling was going on:  as I'm sure you know, there were many other very real "gods", not wooden idols as most preachers would have you believe, but real, advanced beings with great power.  This may have been a rather desperate move by the "Most High", i.e. the most powerful, Jehova, to try to fix the world.  A little known fact is that his plan was to use Abraham to father a special breed of people who were supposed to become a "nation of priests" that would draw all mankind to God.  Having placed them in Egypt to multiply, once they were large in number, he led them into the promised land, and destroyed cities that, perhaps, were just to corrupt to allow to go on.  And as barbaric as this may seem to us, his intentions were at least good.  I'll leave it at that, each man should judge for himself.

Thank you for taking the time to share with me, sonofman

If we say God is a father and compare him to that, then I suppose that every father waits for the day that their child will turn around with full confidence and say "dad, I believe some of the stuff you taught me was full shizz, but yet I do cherish what wasn't full of it..."  :)


#17    sonofman

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 07:03 PM

View PostCiss, on 06 October 2011 - 02:57 PM, said:

Thank you for taking the time to share with me, sonofman

If we say God is a father and compare him to that, then I suppose that every father waits for the day that their child will turn around with full confidence and say "dad, I believe some of the stuff you taught me was full shizz, but yet I do cherish what wasn't full of it..."  :)

Ciss, and what I like about you very much is your honesty.  I believe the correct way to approach the study of the bible is by using your own common sense and asking questions.  God seems to like people who seek the truth about Him, and you have done your homework:  you've read the material and got disgusted.  That's an honest reaction.  May you continue to bring your honesty to everything you look at, so that you can ask the right questions and pursue the truth in an honest way, instead of accepting things that don't make sense.  Speaking of cherish, I cherish your last response :)


#18    Ciss

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 06:19 PM

View Postsonofman, on 06 October 2011 - 07:03 PM, said:

Ciss, and what I like about you very much is your honesty.  I believe the correct way to approach the study of the bible is by using your own common sense and asking questions.  God seems to like people who seek the truth about Him, and you have done your homework:  you've read the material and got disgusted.  That's an honest reaction.  May you continue to bring your honesty to everything you look at, so that you can ask the right questions and pursue the truth in an honest way, instead of accepting things that don't make sense.  Speaking of cherish, I cherish your last response :)

:)  I just wanted to smile back at you sonofman, your last post came in a perfect moment, much needed,  Thank you!


#19    workinprogress - W.I.P

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 01:14 AM

Seems clear to me, God was created from and through the intrinsic essence of man, and Genesis was the beginning to (under the guise of a loving parent), giving rise to justify these rules of misery –
  
“This will hurt me more than it will you” ‘(gee thanks for that)

“You have to be cruel to be kind’.  (and I feel so much better, now that I know why you are causing me pain)


#20    Dweller on the Threshold

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 04:24 PM

As a lover of anything that digs deeper into a mystery or challenges conventional dogma, I do not embrace any one theory exclusively. Altogether, everyone who has commented has brought something to the table. Here's my two cents.

As early primates began to stand upright, be it because of natural evolution or genetic manipulation, the cerebral cortex grew. Naturally the size of the cranium would need to grow. The burden of walking upright also requires a significant structural adaptation to the pelvis in order to support the weight. These two facts combined have made childbirth all the more painful as the hips separate to accommodate the birth of the child... a problem quadrupeds don't seem to have.

Using the wide variety of canine breeds across the world as an example, it seems that the ones tampered with by man are usually the ones that develop problems such as hip dysplasia and a host of other maladies. While I wouldn't bet my life on this observation, it does suggest to me that some sort of genetic tampering probably occurred.

The increase in brain size leads to cognitive development, self-awareness and the ability to recognize cause and effect and therefore, ethics or knowledge of good and evil.

In any case, I don't think this story, or most stories found in the Holy Books of the time should be taken literally.


#21    sonofman

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 05:46 PM

Dweller,

Very interesting observations.  I wanted to respond to your last sentence:

View PostDweller on the Threshold, on 12 November 2011 - 04:24 PM, said:

In any case, I don't think this story, or most stories found in the Holy Books of the time should be taken literally.

Personally, before I read the entire bible in earnest, I had always suspected that maybe the story of Adam and Eve is the one story in the bible that we should read as metaphor, but the interesting thing is that the story doesn't end with the expulsion from the garden.  These two new humans have children and their children have children, and the genealogy of the Hebrews is traced all the way back to these two, in detail.  That, combined with the richness of detail in this story, as well as in the rest of the bible, leaves no doubt that at least in their minds, the authors were telling a true story, not a metaphor.  So, if it reads as a true story, and is meant to be one, then I think it's a bit rash to presume it's fiction out of hat.

It's interesting to me that the author of this story never explains from where they got this information, so I am presuming it was told to them by someone who knew the truth, someone who was perhaps witness to these events.  And that could only have been the gods (the Elohim).  And If indeed this story came from them, then I would wager to say that this story is meant to portray real events, and is meant to give us humans something to think about.  Coming at it with this in mind, I studied the story to see what I could make of it and was immediately struck by the strangeness of some of the details.  Pain in childbirth as a punishment?  Very odd indeed.  This leads me to think we should try to solve the riddle instead of dismissing it.

Mainstream Christians take a rather simplistic view of the story, seeing it as proof that man is sinful from birth as evidenced by their disobedience.  They say that sin entered the world right then, and man "died a spiritual death" there, and became separated from God.  But that flies in the face of what is written, namely that God continued to hang around, talking to Cain, for example, after he murdered Abel.  So if we go strictly by the text:  the serpent wasn't Satan, they didn't die, and they didn't become separated from God.  What did happen is they lost access to the tree of Life and were pushed out of the womb of Eden.  And as I theorized in the article, this may actually have been God's plan all along.  And while I use the term God, I'm not at all convinced that this God was the Creator, but rather someone who was not human, someone very advanced, and in charge of overseeing the progress of the new Humans.

Edited by sonofman, 12 November 2011 - 05:49 PM.


#22    imjanedo

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:34 AM

While studying creation and seeing two different orders in Gen 1 and Gen 2 I was led to say these are two different creations. The order is different, the function was different, and the location was different. I study from the Mechanical Translation of Genesis, which has both Hebrew text and literal translation in English. It is not fluid like the King James, but it's astounding what you can see in it. Human on day 6 was allowed to eat of all the trees. This is just one difference.  The human was created last from all the beasts, grass, trees, and all. That’s different than Gen 2.  It was also stated that Elohim created this human, Elohim being the right arm of YHWY. On the contrary you see YHWY and Elohim creating Adam together.  You see in Gen 1:2 and Gen 1:3 the proclaiming of light. Not the creation of light, but the proclaiming that light exists. Where did this proclaiming take place? In the summit or in the realm of time, you see a separation of light and darkness. You see the word called out Day for light. You see the 'DAY' set apart from the beginning. You will also see the 'expansion' is they sky which hold the entire universe, sun, stars, and all. What is located outside this expansion is the 'DAY'. This was not the day of the sun as the sun was not created yet. THIS WAS THE EVERLASTING DAY!!!! OUTSIDE THE UNIVERSE. If you draw out creation you will see the DAY in Gen 1:2 is located outside the Universe. When Elohim finishes HIS 'occupation' (as stated in mechanical) you see he returns to the 'DAY' to create with the God Head, YHWY (TO EXIST). Note God's title means 'to exist'. What was proclaimed in the summit from the very beginning? THE DAY!!!! It is pivotal to understand that ADAM was made in the everlasting day. This is why the beasts number is 666!!!! He is human 6, which will make a grand appearance 3 times!!!!! Every parable, every Bible story, every understanding of the future is all in creation! If you can only understand that there WERE two different creations. OUTLINE creation 1, and then OUTLINE creation 2. It is completely different. It served two purposes. Adam was to guard the Garden of Eden. Why? From what? From the summit! You see Adam make a statement that for the woman he would leave his FATHER AND MOTHER (YHWY is feminine and Elohim is masculine). Adam knew the purpose of EVE when she was given. Eve was deceived having not being directly commanded not to eat, but Adam being directly commanded to eat made a choice for a purpose. Whether he remembered that after his eyes were opened or not, this was THE IMAGE IN HEAVEN THAT SOLOMON TALKS OF. When Jesus died on the cross for our sins, it was for the ORIGINAL sin!!!!!!! What did he say on the cross? FORGIVE THEM FATHER THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO! It was the reflection of what EVE was to take on. This is the travail of the woman! I pray someone out there emails me and can see this. He spoke to me like the wind when I asked, 'Why did Noah's name mean REST, YHWY?' He answered me like the wind, and he said, 'DAY'. The next time I read creation I understood. His DAY is the day of healing. The garden was to correct the fall of the angels. The purpose of this world is to correct the heavens in a physical realm. This is why Jesus said, why have you forsaken me?  Because, YHWY having seen the redeeming nature of the original sin came to inherit a new kingdom (parables!).  He built his temple in three days.  That is Jesus’s new body!!!!   Read Hebrews chapter 1. It pleads for you to understand. It will not be revealed until the right time. The disciples were to prepare the field for future kingdom message. Just as the land was prepared for Adam by human 6 on the 6th day. That human was to subdue the Earth for the fall in the garden. You see the garden turn over on itself. I believe that you could see the Garden in the Heavens from Earth until the day of sin. I am still working on that, but I do know that on the Sabbath Jesus healed!!! He did not REST!!! He healed. He said that he is the master of the Sabbath!  In Noah's day, HE HEALED the Earth. What happened in Noah's day was a reflection of the summit, covered in water. What was before time? Read Isaiah 45. Look at how he talked about what he 'made' and what he 'created'. It was an image in Heaven! The seed of Jacob existed before time!!! 'IN A WASTE I DID NOT CREATE YOU'. If you have ears to hear, the new understanding is alive and it will be heard. It's HIS will!!!  In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with GOD and the WORD was GOD!!!  What is the word?  It’s the word he brought me when I asked, Why was NOAH’s name meaning REST???  He answered me in ONE WORD!  With that word he proclaimed light in the summit, again.  Please, see.  This is the mystery of Adam and Eve!  We are the bride of Christ!  We left with the purpose of Eve so HE could come to inherit a kingdom.  He came to redeem us, to claim us, to show that sin served its purpose.  We will not be ashamed!  We were with him before the summit.  We were with HIM in DAY OF YHWY!  You will recognize them by their fruits!!  It’s the spirit blown into the man of human on DAY 7. PRAISE HIM AND HIS PERFECT PLAN!!!  The fig tree is blooming.

While studying creation and seeing two different orders in Gen 1 and Gen 2 I was led to say these are two different creations. The order is different, the function was different, and the location was different. I study from the Mechanical Translation of Genesis, which has both Hebrew text and literal translation in English. It is not fluid like the King James, but it's astounding what you can see in it. Human on day 6 was allowed to eat of all the trees. This is just one difference.  The human was created last from all the beasts, grass, trees, and all. That’s different than Gen 2.  It was also stated that Elohim created this human, Elohim being the right arm of YHWY. On the contrary you see YHWY and Elohim creating Adam together.  You see in Gen 1:2 and Gen 1:3 the proclaiming of light. Not the creation of light, but the proclaiming that light exists. Where did this proclaiming take place? In the summit or in the realm of time, you see a separation of light and darkness. You see the word called out Day for light. You see the 'DAY' set apart from the beginning. You will also see the 'expansion' is they sky which hold the entire universe, sun, stars, and all. What is located outside this expansion is the 'DAY'. This was not the day of the sun as the sun was not created yet. THIS WAS THE EVERLASTING DAY!!!! OUTSIDE THE UNIVERSE. If you draw out creation you will see the DAY in Gen 1:2 is located outside the Universe. When Elohim finishes HIS 'occupation' (as stated in mechanical) you see he returns to the 'DAY' to create with the God Head, YHWY (TO EXIST). Note God's title means 'to exist'. What was proclaimed in the summit from the very beginning? THE DAY!!!! It is pivotal to understand that ADAM was made in the everlasting day. This is why the beasts number is 666!!!! He is human 6, which will make a grand appearance 3 times!!!!! Every parable, every Bible story, every understanding of the future is all in creation! If you can only understand that there WERE two different creations. OUTLINE creation 1, and then OUTLINE creation 2. It is completely different. It served two purposes. Adam was to guard the Garden of Eden. Why? From what? From the summit! You see Adam make a statement that for the woman he would leave his FATHER AND MOTHER (YHWY is feminine and Elohim is masculine). Adam knew the purpose of EVE when she was given. Eve was deceived having not being directly commanded not to eat, but Adam being directly commanded to eat made a choice for a purpose. Whether he remembered that after his eyes were opened or not, this was THE IMAGE IN HEAVEN THAT SOLOMON TALKS OF. When Jesus died on the cross for our sins, it was for the ORIGINAL sin!!!!!!! What did he say on the cross? FORGIVE THEM FATHER THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO! It was the reflection of what EVE was to take on. This is the travail of the woman! I pray someone out there emails me and can see this. He spoke to me like the wind when I asked, 'Why did Noah's name mean REST, YHWY?' He answered me like the wind, and he said, 'DAY'. The next time I read creation I understood. His DAY is the day of healing. The garden was to correct the fall of the angels. The purpose of this world is to correct the heavens in a physical realm. This is why Jesus said, why have you forsaken me?  Because, YHWY having seen the redeeming nature of the original sin came to inherit a new kingdom (parables!).  He built his temple in three days.  That is Jesus’s new body!!!!   Read Hebrews chapter 1. It pleads for you to understand. It will not be revealed until the right time. The disciples were to prepare the field for future kingdom message. Just as the land was prepared for Adam by human 6 on the 6th day. That human was to subdue the Earth for the fall in the garden. You see the garden turn over on itself. I believe that you could see the Garden in the Heavens from Earth until the day of sin. I am still working on that, but I do know that on the Sabbath Jesus healed!!! He did not REST!!! He healed. He said that he is the master of the Sabbath!  In Noah's day, HE HEALED the Earth. What happened in Noah's day was a reflection of the summit, covered in water. What was before time? Read Isaiah 45. Look at how he talked about what he 'made' and what he 'created'. It was an image in Heaven! The seed of Jacob existed before time!!! 'IN A WASTE I DID NOT CREATE YOU'. If you have ears to hear, the new understanding is alive and it will be heard. It's HIS will!!!  In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with GOD and the WORD was GOD!!!  What is the word?  It’s the word he brought me when I asked, Why was NOAH’s name meaning REST???  He answered me in ONE WORD!  With that word he proclaimed light in the summit, again.  Please, see.  This is the mystery of Adam and Eve!  We are the bride of Christ!  We left with the purpose of Eve so HE could come to inherit a kingdom.  He came to redeem us, to claim us, to show that sin served its purpose.  We will not be ashamed!  We were with him before the summit.  We were with HIM in DAY OF YHWY!  You will recognize them by their fruits!!  It’s the spirit blown into the man of human on DAY 7. PRAISE HIM AND HIS PERFECT PLAN!!!  The fig tree is blooming.





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