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What is Freedom?


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#1    Rolci

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 10:41 PM

I've always been interested in the concept and meaning of freedom, mainly on a personal level. I've never been able to put into words what it means for me, no matter how much time I spent thinking about it. I firmly believe the truth behind the words "Knock and it shall be opened unto you". The reason I started this topic now is because my most recent "mental rambling" has resulted in what I'd call a revelation, although I guess you could call it the surfacing from my unconscious of a personal conclusion. I call it revelation because it had a mystical surrounding to it, and felt like an "aha" moment, when you don't know why it hasn't occurred to you before if it is just a conclusion that is so logical. Anyway, whatever you wanna call it, I'd like to share what lead up to it, what began to dawn on me, and a synchronicity that followed it. Again, you couuld call it coincidence, but after an unlikely frequency of such you tend not to call it that any more because you just "know" there must be more to it.
So what lead up to it? Well, the simplest thing, I was thinking, trying to find out what freedom is, what it means to me. Specifically, what it is that I experience so DISTINCTLY in Eastern Europe, and the lack of which is so uncannily apparent in England, where I live now, which you can also apply to the USA and Western Europe in general. The problem is, when I say that I experience this huge difference so distinctly, I cannot quite grasp or put my finger on what it is exactly. So I will try and describe it to you, although if you've never been to both worlds you might not appreciate what's behind the words.
The first thing to mention here that definitely needs breaking down due to its vague, elusive and subtle nature, is the overwhelming feeling that overcomes me when I cross the border from Hungary to Ukraine (my wife's home country, where we go every year to visit her family). One important thing to note is that the feeling is not associated with the feeling of "home", as I come from Hungary, and I don't experience this feeling deeply until we cross the border to Ukraine. (We fly from the UK to Hungary and take a train from there.)
I would like to devote a separate paragraph to explain why I think I don't feel the above-mentioned freedom in Hungary. Hungary is not the same as it used to be. Especially since "we" joined the EU. Globalization means increasing numbers of laws, rules and regulations. As an example, the almost-ritualistic nationwide custom of killing a pig and processing its meat and what-not into different meat products has been outlawed, needless to say, to the dismay of all of us. It used to be a sort of ceremony where family and friends gathered for an all-day occasion of collaboration, celebration and, obviously, a feast. Of course you can start arguing about pigs' rights, but then why not the right of a fish, a snail, a  virus, or in the end rocks? Where do you draw the line, and who draws the line anyway? I like the way native Americans treat life. When they prepare to harvest, kill and consume a plant or animal, including bushes of berries, they ask the spirit of that being for permission, out of respect for life. This is passed down from generation to generation, and they follow these customs, knowing why they do it. I mean, how much explanation does respect need? And the basic inherent trouble with law imposed on you is that the "rules" are not your own convictions, or anyone's convictions for that matter, they are simply enFORCED by an authority, regardless of how much of the population disagrees with them. E.g. you just pay your tax, without being told how much was paid in last year and how much was spent on what. It's simply taken from people without asking them if they agree with what it's spent on. Or when there is a proper community like those in Eastern European countries, where people know each other and people care about one another, if you steal and it turns out, you'll be ashamed in front of everyone, and why would you risk the trust people have in you? Besides, why would you steal from your neighbours, people you know, when everyone will help one another if they can. People help each other out, and you grow up learning these values for yourself. Same goes for what you call "primitive" cultures, where things like theft and rape are unheard of, and when you describe what these mean, they simply can't comprehend why anyone would need to do such a thing. Whereas in the "civilized" world, you lack these values and the understandings they're based upon, and the only thing keeping you from stealing is the law, and when no one sees you you will steal, the young walk the streets in mobs with knives and guns, and when they vandalize property after some binge-drinking fest,  they don't really feel any remorse. A phenomenon that does not exist in Eastern countries up to this day. An important point: law does not and CAN NOT make you respect others, let alone want to know them and care about them. So my point is, with the new laws replacing common sense and human values, sewing replacing public shame, and punishment replacing forgiveness, globalization has started destroying what I valued in my home country. And I can feel it in the air, quite literally.

Now that I have established that what I feel in Ukraine is not a feeling of "home sweet home", I can carry on describing what I think contribute to the way I feel. No importance to the order, just whatever pops into my head right now. No cameras watching your every move. People grow up to be responsible for themselves rather than having a nanny state look after them. I can decide whether I want to put on my seatbelts or not. Yeah, of course it's the law, but these countries do not run based on threats that laws mean. It's not like you speed, and there are cameras all over the place and you get a ticket, a punishment, they take your money, and some points from your licence. It's like, no one really cares, people will drive safe because it's common sense. If you do get caught not wearing seatbelts, you give the cop £5 and off you go. Good for the cop, not that bad for you. Nobody got hurt. You feel free. You COULD get hurt, but then you can get hurt when crossing a zebra-crossing. If you do get hit and it's not your fault, the driver's punishment will hardly help you recover or bring you back from the dead. But I will get back to the pragmtic side of all this at the end of this post, in the synchronicity bit. Next. I remember when we were driving home from somewhere and we saw a field of flowers by the road. We just pulled to the side, stopped the car, got out, had a walk among the flowers, took some nice pictures, and before we went on we had some sandwiches. Like a spontaneous picnic. There is no congestion on the roads. Not many cars, many people cycle, the air is fresh and it's all quiet. It's not against the law to park in most places. Many laws that clearly do not makes sense are simply not followed, and no one really cares. You won't be penalized for stopping to walk among the flowers just because you're not supposed to park here or there. I think we were driving home from a water fountain. We actually drove to this place where natural mineral water comes to the surface, drove like 50 miles or more, with some bottles. Just for the fun of it, the trip, the nice water. It used to be free, but now there was a money-collector guy. He wasn't really checking who took how many bottles. People are honest. They walk up to the guy and just drop him the money. There was a sign giving the price for every litre. I couldn't believe it, so I actually took a picture of it. It was 10 kopek or whatever, a tenth of a hrivna. So every litre cost the equivalent of 0.8 pence. Meaning you get 125 litres for £1. Not sure what the whole point of that was. But there were like 8 taps in an octagonal shape around the source and there was this crowd trying to get their bottles filled up, as if it was some miracle water. It was all so funny. Other sources were smaller and free. This one was said to contain some healing minerals, or at least very beneficial ones to your health. Another thing I can think of right now, there are no job interviews and stupid references. People know who you are. If you're irresponsible or known to have stolen or whatever, no matter your qualifications and your work history. You don't get the job. If you need a job and you're an honest guy, your friends will recommend you to their boss and you get a job. Another reason why you realize, as you grow up, that it's common sense to be honest and be nice with people. Back in the old days, I remember there was a time when I lived with my mother and brother, we still went to school, and my mum lost her job, and we didn't get child support, and were renting. We didn't get enough money even to pay what we needed to pay, not to mention food. The family's friends teamed up, and on several occasions visited us with food, flour, milk, oil and what-not, and some money.  Never had to pay it back. These days my mother voluntarily supports many people home from her own money every month. I think she's over-doing it, but I respect her free will and admire her good heart. Behaviour like this, that is, selfless help and displays of unconditional love without expectation of reward is most natural in many local communities in Eastern Europe. Even in today's Hungary, where we used to live, the local community regularly put their money, resources and efforts together to create things for themselves. For example, there is a continuous project, a... not sure  what it'd be called. Raw materials are bought from the collected money, and structures are built that the community can use. These structures now include a football field with seats and benches on the side, an artificial pond with these pedallo-like 2-seater things we call "aquatic-bycicles", a fountain with coloured lights, a buffet, and most recently a skate rink. There are regular community days with food cooked on open fire and activities, stage performance like folk dance and folk music. For some pictures see http://www.morotvaeg...autogallery.php

In these countries there is generally a vibrant cultural life that I do not find in the western world. Next. Last year I was called to help work in a field in the countryside. This was in Ukraine. The whole family went. All day. No payment. Not working for family, just some friends. Rather than working for 30 days, they asked friends, and it was all done in a day. We had lunch together. Apparently this sort of thing is not unusual. When I was little, there was no pavement in our street. The people of the street put their resources together and built a pavement for themselves, or rather, ourselves. That was 20 years ago in Hungary. In England when something needs done, you wait for the council to "do something". And if it doesn't get done, all you do is moan, like "is this what I pay council tax for?" When my wife's parents wanted a garage for their car behind their house, they asked friends, and it was all built in days. A garage and 2 rooms above. That reminds me. In Ukraine, most houses have another, smaller house behind them, and there's another attachment that's like a storage building, and sometimes a 4th attachement. For an example see copy and paste 48.42044654045932 22.38935006473102 into google earth. Also note the size of the gardens. Over 100m on average. Plenty of space. Which is part of freedom, when you don't have to live in a house that's small even for sardines and have no space to use for personal recreation. In Ukraine and Hungary there is no such thing as council tax. Most people build and own their houses, mortgages are practically unheard of. House prices are so low, we went to the county town and saw these newly-built blocks of flats, and they were selling each for about £20-30.000. Rent is low accordingly, around £80 a month. You can build your own house as small or as big as you want, build as many extensions as you want. In England, if you want to build an extension or another building on your(?) land, first you need permission (!?!) from the council. If you're lucky and get permission, and your neighbours approve (LOL) you can start paying craploads of money to get it done. And when you're finished, you learn that your property happens to have fallen into a dearer council tax band. By the way, stop paying council tax and see what happens. In Ukraine, people have their own unlimited free water-supply from their own underground artesian source. That's what we drink at home. Tasted better, is healthier, no chemicals, and use as much as you want. Similarly in Hungary we have artesian fountains all over the country. They're like this: http://static.orszag.../1281593068.jpg Imagine you're walking or cycling in town and it's a hot summer day and you're thirsty. You have no money with you. What do you do? In Hungary you stop at a fountain. In England you're screwed. Also I asked my mother-in-law for their electricity bills for the past 12 months. Added all up, devided by 12, and converted to GBP. £5/month. And they probably have more gadgets than we do, including 2 tellies and 4 fridge-freezers running all the time. Watering your garden as much as you see fit is maybe part of freedom. Knowing that electricity companies won't profiteer the crap out of you might be part of it too. The hands of the law not having unreasonable grasp on you could be it also. Knowing that you can never really be in trouble could be in it as well. Thinking about all this and much more I realized, freedom must be the lack of the immediacy and imminency of negative consequences. Negative consequence can be joblessness, or being punished by the law. Even if you do break a law, there are no cameras, or if you do get caught by police, you may get away with it. If you lose your job, friends can and will help. I will leave it at that for now and let the rest of possible definition be done by a text for you.

I read almost every day. I read messages. Inspirational messages. Always on a different topic. 1-2 days after I pondered the nature of freedom, my next message was about... guess what. Freedom. I would like to quote.


"Gaze at the savage. This is an entity truly free, for this entity does what it wishes to do at all times. The demands of survival are parameters accepted as given, and there is no ambition for any but the comforts of eating and sleeping, mating, and communicating in some way with that great spirit which is known by all primitive peoples as the giver of all blessings, the lover of all entities, the source and the ending of each consciousness before birth and after death. This peace, this true freedom, takes its purity from the purity of the spirits of those who do not have greed, ambition or thought. They are indeed very close to second-density consciousness, and are aware of the sanctity of all things, of the utter and unquestionable reality of magical and divine power, and within these lives is a rhythm of obedience to what civilized entities would call the myths and the shamanistic practices inherent in primitive cultures."


The whole 5-page message is a good lesson in human history, a refresher from a different perspective. Please do take the time and read it here: http://www.llresearc.../1990_0304.aspx Please do share your views on all that I've shared here as well as this reading. Whatever freedom is, I do feel a difference in my stayings in different countries, and I can see how much difference there is between STANDARD of living that the west is so proud of, and the QUALITY of life that I greatly miss, feeling lost in the west. How I ended up in England is a different story, and although I do not feel I belong here even after 7 years, there must be a reason for it, which I'm only beginning to understand. If you've never seen darkness, how do you know what the light is?

Edited by Rolci, 05 October 2011 - 10:43 PM.

Best piece of truth I have found so far: http://llresearch.or...of_one_pdf.aspx
A truly free society: https://sites.google...t-economy-today
The true history of our planet: http://www.floating-...rth_history.htm
Dialogues with The Absolute: unveiledsecretsandmessagesoflight.blogspot (dot) co (dot) uk/2011/08/eon-11aug2010.html
A wealth of metaphysical readings with a surprisingly high ratio of truth content: soulwise (dot) net/index-00.htm

#2    White Crane Feather

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 01:38 AM

Rolci,

You and I are brothers in so many ways.

I'm sorry I'm not sure I understood what your synchronistic event was...

Edited by Seeker79, 06 October 2011 - 01:39 AM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#3    Rolci

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 09:27 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 06 October 2011 - 01:38 AM, said:

Rolci,

You and I are brothers in so many ways.

I'm sorry I'm not sure I understood what your synchronistic event was...

The synchronistic event was that a few days ago I seriously pondered "Freedom" for a long time and wanted to understand it once and for all, and these readings that I do, I've read about 1500-2000 of these in the past couple years but not one had Freedom as its topic, and just 1-2 days after my pondering of Freedom the next message I read was all about Freedom. That 5-page message I linked there was like heavenly food for my starving soul. This is what I consider synchronistic. Any thoughts about Freedom?
By the way, it's getting worse in Hungary: although I've been in the UK for almost 7 years, I received a letter to my Hu address telling me that I have to start paying the equivalent of £15 as National Insurance every month as I'm not insured as I'm unemployed. Of course after going through a lot of burocracy I'll be able to establish that I pay mine here. But the implications are far-reaching. I'm thinking about all the poor jobless people who can hardly pay their bills, who are now struck with even more difficulties. Where is Freedom in Hungary now? You're better off giving up your citizenship these days, and be a child of Mother Earth, like native tribes all over the world. Maybe one day...

Best piece of truth I have found so far: http://llresearch.or...of_one_pdf.aspx
A truly free society: https://sites.google...t-economy-today
The true history of our planet: http://www.floating-...rth_history.htm
Dialogues with The Absolute: unveiledsecretsandmessagesoflight.blogspot (dot) co (dot) uk/2011/08/eon-11aug2010.html
A wealth of metaphysical readings with a surprisingly high ratio of truth content: soulwise (dot) net/index-00.htm

#4    White Crane Feather

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 10:36 AM

View PostRolci, on 06 October 2011 - 09:27 AM, said:

The synchronistic event was that a few days ago I seriously pondered "Freedom" for a long time and wanted to understand it once and for all, and these readings that I do, I've read about 1500-2000 of these in the past couple years but not one had Freedom as its topic, and just 1-2 days after my pondering of Freedom the next message I read was all about Freedom. That 5-page message I linked there was like heavenly food for my starving soul. This is what I consider synchronistic. Any thoughts about Freedom?
By the way, it's getting worse in Hungary: although I've been in the UK for almost 7 years, I received a letter to my Hu address telling me that I have to start paying the equivalent of £15 as National Insurance every month as I'm not insured as I'm unemployed. Of course after going through a lot of burocracy I'll be able to establish that I pay mine here. But the implications are far-reaching. I'm thinking about all the poor jobless people who can hardly pay their bills, who are now struck with even more difficulties. Where is Freedom in Hungary now? You're better off giving up your citizenship these days, and be a child of Mother Earth, like native tribes all over the world. Maybe one day...
It's coming Rolci. Start perfecting your aboriginal skills now. At the very least it will pull you out more for practice. Humanity will return to tte old ways eventually. It's bad here in America to and getting worse.

Here they  Tax our income, tax our gas, tax cars, tax the insurance on our cars, tax our taxes, tax our property, tax our homes, tax our phone, tax our electricity, tax our investments, tax our gifts, tax our bonus, tax our coffee at Starbucks, tax our burgers, pizza, Chinese food, tacos, bottled water, alcohol, tobacco, and everything else that is not directly food. But of course all the taxes imposed on the companies to get it to us is part of the price.

Tax our rent, Tax our renters insurance or home owners insurance, tax our dogs, utility trailers, boats ( even the small ones), tax our hotels, air fair, bus fair, train fair, contractors, water, propane, driving over a big bridge, parking ( certain places)....... Then then then when we finally blow up and yell at a cop, go crazy and break something, can't afford a tail light, registration, cracked wind, shield new tires,  smog, or a the very taxes and fees that are killing us, what happens.... Yup they charge you more.

Fees to get married, get divorced, give birth, drive, and die. Not to mention go camping, have a fire, even be in the woods, hunt fish, trap, and hike.  Fine and harass every time they get a chance.  And countless other things.

Then.... Then we are told they don't have enough money!!!!!!!!!!!!!'

Time to move to The woods and live in a wigwam..... But I would probably get arrested for squatting.

It's so out of control, it has become a beast and has people feeding on each other. And this is supposed to be the land of the free.

The world is in trouble. The scales have been tiped. People are incapable of turning back. The sun will not allow an electronics based society for long.

Freedom lies in hour ability to not rely on anyone's else's product.

"Out of the Indian approach to life there came a great freedom, an intense and absorbing respect for life, enriching faith in a Supreme Power, and principles of truth, honesty,
 generosity, equity, and brotherhood as a guide to mundane relations."---Luther Standing Bear Oglala Sioux

Who speaks of liberty while the human mind is in chains?  ~Francis Wright, 1828

We are free, truly free, when we don't need to rent our arms to anybody in order to be able to lift a piece of bread to our mouths.  ~Ricardo Flores Magon, speech, 31 May 1914

“Any existence deprived of freedom is a kind of death.”?????

      “There is no such thing as a little freedom. Either you are all free, or you are not free.” --Walter Cronkite

Edited by Seeker79, 06 October 2011 - 10:47 AM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#5    Rolci

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 01:14 AM

I suppose this guy is kind of free:

http://www.guardian....e-without-money

but then you could argue that he relies on others to a certain extent to produce stuff for him. So check this out:

http://sites.google....t-economy-today

Best piece of truth I have found so far: http://llresearch.or...of_one_pdf.aspx
A truly free society: https://sites.google...t-economy-today
The true history of our planet: http://www.floating-...rth_history.htm
Dialogues with The Absolute: unveiledsecretsandmessagesoflight.blogspot (dot) co (dot) uk/2011/08/eon-11aug2010.html
A wealth of metaphysical readings with a surprisingly high ratio of truth content: soulwise (dot) net/index-00.htm

#6    jake1967

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:12 AM

Freedom. None of us can help where we are born... here is what I remember and what I think..and I will offer my opinion.  Freedom is being free from the laws of man. Mankind has missed the mark as far as true 'freedom' is concerned. Spiritually a man is free from the law of mankind depending upon his faith...and my faith being in God.  My faith tells me that Love is the law..read the ten commandments in the Bible. If Love were the law amongst all men..why the wars and hatred amongst us? We are all born into sin..if you disagree..please take a good hard look at yourself! I do not claim that I am without sin..NO man is. Simply put, freedom is knowing that you are not only flesh and blood..but spirit as well..and  despite the laws of man-those laws created to control and extend power to the 'elect' few, those that view their lives as more important than those that they claim to represent, and those that would misrepresent due to greed etc. Freedom, true freedom, comes from Truth and NOT from the laws of mankind. I found what is real and that is that LOVE-That IS the law!! to Love!! Wars are started over opinions and beliefs-men, women and children  are killed for less. It makes no sense to me! Here we are on this fine planet and we have forgotten or have been trained that this nation or that nation is the enemy...are we not all human? Does one nation love it's children more than another? If you equate money, or power with success..then perhaps you have forgotten..that LOVE is the greatest thing of all. I am afraid that most of mankind is too involved with their 'stuff' to even remember! It is the Love of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit that saves mankind. Many would argue..but think..for just a moment..if all mankind would, for just a day, come to the conclusion that Love is the only law, ..tell me this ..on that day -should it ever occur in our lifetimes..who would die from murder? What wars would start? What race would be greater than another? In this world-money and power are the gods of people..in the world I know, and very much wish to return to,..Love is. Want to find Freedom? True Freedom? Look to the Cross..Find God..and find Freedom..and open your eyes to the illusions that hold you captive. Love is greater than war. Soon, upon the Earth, many terrible things shall happen, and many shall perish, some will believe in the false gods..and others will find Love despite persecution. Freedom my friends..true freedom comes from knowing and accepting that man is not your god..but your God is much more than you can imagine..Freedom comes from Him alone.


#7    and then

and then

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:36 AM

For me being free is simple.   It's the same as being at complete peace with myself and my choices.  I find that when I am living within what I understand to be God's will.  Outside of that I am in shackles.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#8    euroninja

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:16 AM

View PostRolci, on 10 April 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

I suppose this guy is kind of free:

http://www.guardian....e-without-money

but then you could argue that he relies on others to a certain extent to produce stuff for him. So check this out:

http://sites.google....t-economy-today
Is that the same as kind of slave?

Man plans and God laughs.

#9    euroninja

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:18 AM

View Postand then, on 10 April 2012 - 03:36 AM, said:

For me being free is simple.   It's the same as being at complete peace with myself and my choices.  
And smoking a cigar at the comfort of my porch. That's not freedom just like being at complete peace, on earth and goodwill to menz?

Man plans and God laughs.

#10    JayMark

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:30 PM

I think freedom is a concequence of awarness.

The more aware you are of anything, the greater your freedom of choise will be within it.

I cannot choose to become a police officer if I am not aware that it exists.

I cannot choose to help someone if I am not aware of a problem.

So in conclusion, I think the amplitude of our freedom is proportional to the amplitude of our awarness.

That is concerning the desire of doing something. Now succeding in doing it is not always guaranteed. We do not have control on everything.

Bartender says: "Sorry, we don't serve faster-than-light neutrinos here."

So you have these two faster-than-light neutrinos walking into a bar...

#11    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:26 PM

Freedom is having the ability to choose for yourself.  Choice.

Drunk with blood..
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Who is like God
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#12    Parsip

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:00 PM

I completely agree with you, OP. It's exactly the same in my country, and probably most of the Middle East as well. It's a dictatorship, but the government knows its place and leaves people alone. There is hardly any taxation on personal income, there are no "sin taxes" (soda, fast food, etc.), or anything of the sort. You can do whatever you want as long as it's not anti-government or too unIslamic. Society revolves around family and community. If you need help with anything, your family or local community are there for you, with no expectation of monetary compensation. If the government interfered in people's lives the way Western governments do, I honestly have no doubt there would be an armed rebellion. The government fears the people. In many ways, even a brutal Middle Eastern dictatorship is freer than the freest Western country. Westerners have no idea what freedom is, and they take for granted whatever freedoms they do have. Even here, I've noticed some Middle Eastern governments in recent years have been slowly trying to reduce this "social freedom", under the guise of modernization.


#13    charmcph

charmcph

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  • Don't judge a book by it's cover....same goes for people!

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 03:15 AM

Choice .... comes with restrictions....
Freedom ...comes with restrictions....



Our minds gives us true freedom...

~Char~




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