50 replies to this topic

[Saru]

Andrea Rossi's cold fusion energy catalyzer has been successfully demonstrated in a recent test.

PESN said:

The test of the E-Cat (Energy Catalyzer) that took place on October 6, 2011 in Italy has validated Andrea Rossi's claim that the device produces excess energy via a novel Cold Fusion nuclear reaction.

Read more...

It's incredible how little news coverage there is about this.

[DKO]

Awesome, This could end up being a major turning point in history, if it holds up.

[Chrlzs]

I'd suggest extreme caution.  I don't see much in the way of a properly documented scientifically valid test, nor any form of proper peer review there.  It is obviously a website promoting the 'free energy' idea, and also contains the words:

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..Let professionals in the renewable energy sector know about the promise of this technology.
..Subscribe to our newsletter to stay abreast of the latest, greatest developments in the free energy sector.
..Consider investing in Rossi's group once they open to that in October

Sounds more like marketing than science.

It then essentially admits that this was not a proper test:

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- Some may legitimately argue about how much energy was produced, because we don't yet have all the test data in one easy to interpret graph or file.
- Some may point out the flaws in the test, such as the lack of a control, the lack of another several hours of operation in self sustain mode.
- Some may point out ways the test could be improved.

Yes, I would be one of those 'some'.  The 'test' was NOT done by any form of independent lab or organisation (and doing that would not have to reveal his 'secrets', but it would ensure that all inputs, outputs and effects were properly measured).  The 'test' was devised and run by Rossi, the graph shows nothing but what appears to be a simple 'heat lag' effect, no original data is given, nor is the entire testing methodology/regime properly described (eg where are the assumptions, the error ranges, controls..?).  And, most importantly, who was there to verify the validity of the test...  It seems when Rossi is questioned, everything is so confidential it cannot be described or verified - which (along with the inevitable claims that the big energy companies are suppressing the technology..) is how scammers fleece their victims.  Read the 'statement' by Rossi... I haven't seen so much avoidance of questions since Nixon.. and what scientist TYPES IN CAPITALS AND SHOUTS HIS ANSWERS?

So be afraid, very afraid.  In fact, I'll be so bold as to call this a scam *now*, in order to avoid the almost inevitable later rush.


Just as a further pointer...  Andrea Rossi has a blog that he calls the 'Journal of Nuclear Physics'.  It is designed to look very much like a 'real' peer-reviewed scientific journal, but it was actually created by Rossi when his publication was refused at Arxiv.  Other folks have already spotted that at least one of the names on his list of advisers doesn't exist at the university specified (and Rossi admits he only briefly met the guy, and now can't even remember his discipline or University!), another (Sergio Focardi) was his partner in the project, but now seems to be rather silent..

This will all end in tears, I tell you..  

Added PS - This is worth a read:
JREF discussion

Edited by Chrlzs, 14 October 2011 - 12:05 PM.

[morrison1976]

Science is full of arragont and ignorant people ( just look at the ufo field ) And the sad thing is, many people follow these people, and take their every word, which is a shame. Anyone outside the so called norm, most of the time will get ridiculed, and then the same internet hang alongs will ridicule the news too. As far as i know, he has demonstrated the divice in front of scientists, and if he was lying about this, then itwould just be a matter of time before he was caught out.

What a sad world we live in, it really is

[Mac E]

I would have to agree with Chrizs, there is reason for speculation on this.  I understand the need for confidentiality, but if all the patents are in place he shouldn't have a problem.  This also makes me think that the patents won't be approved either unless he provides the specific data they need.  I am skeptical as there are a lot of variables involved that he didn't show.  Bottom line, I need more information as a scientist before making a call.  What are the specific chemical reactions taking place?  Prove it theoretically and then prove it expiramentally (multiple times).

[Chrlzs]

morrison1976, on 14 October 2011 - 12:20 PM, said:

Science is full of arragont{sic} and ignorant people ( just look at the ufo field )

Is that directed at me?  Andrea Rossi?  The scientists that have had this 'demonstrated' to them?  Science/scientists in general?  Or just the ones you don't agree with?

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And the sad thing is, many people follow these people, and take their every word, which is a shame. Anyone outside the so called norm, most of the time will get ridiculed, and then the same internet hang alongs will ridicule the news too.

So, just so we can judge this, how many free-energy or cold fusion devices have actually gone mainstream and been proven to work out of all those 'demonstrated' or claimed to date?  Now is that because 'science' unfairly stamped them into oblivion and somehow prevented them from being developed?  Surely if these things worked, big business/gov't/whoever would now be using them to make money.  And how is it that, in this age of free communication, that the secrets haven't 'got out'?

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As far as i know, he has demonstrated the divice {sic} in front of scientists

Yes, he has, a few times.  But he has NOT ever allowed any form of independent test.  Some of those demonstrations have looked quite convincing, and some (but not many) respected scientists have been encouraging.. but they always say "IF this is proven..".  Science, very sensibly and rightly, waits until such 'divices' are properly tested and verified by independent labs or testing authorities.

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and if he was lying about this, then itwould just be a matter of time before he was caught out.

You haven't spent much time looking at scams?  The modus operandi is exactly that - to drag it out for as long as possible, with mulitple excuses, investors falling in and out of favour, partnership splits, minor failures and lack of funding holding everything up, and so on, so the funds can keep rolling in for as long as possible until the truth finally gets out..

And yes, that all describes *exactly* what Rossi has been doing here.  It sure smells like a duck...

Tell me, morrison, what do you think of Rossi's creation of a Journal to self-publish his papers?

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What a sad world we live in, it really is

Yes, it is - scammers are the worst, I reckon...

Anyway, may I suggest that if you think I am being unfairly cynical, why not go and invest in it?  Let's meet here again in 12 months and look at the new excuses.. or the successful venture.  If I'm wrong, I'll be delighted to come back and apologise and congratulate you on your new riches from your investment.  After all, this will be such a breakthrough, everyone will be so happy, and I'll be jealous..

See you in 12... although I suspect the truth might be out before then...

BTW, it is interesting to note that Rossi himself has stated that he is unsure of the reaction involved, and that he doesn't think it is cold fusion..

[Verneph]

I agree with Chrizs as well.  You can't just say "I did cold fusion!" and expect everyone to believe you without sufficient and repeated test data to back it up.  He demonstrated that his device produces energy.  How?  In what manner does it do this?  There is no explanation other than "OMG COLD FUSION" which tells me it could be just about anything producing the energy in his device.  

Until this can be properly verified, I can't say I have a lot of faith in his claim.

[vitruvian12]

Is there anything different between this demo and the one he did months ago?  He wanted investors then but couldnt provide any real dtails on how his device might work.

[Rlyeh]

morrison1976, on 14 October 2011 - 12:20 PM, said:

Science is full of arragont and ignorant people ( just look at the ufo field ) And the sad thing is, many people follow these people, and take their every word, which is a shame. Anyone outside the so called norm, most of the time will get ridiculed, and then the same internet hang alongs will ridicule the news too. As far as i know, he has demonstrated the divice in front of scientists, and if he was lying about this, then itwould just be a matter of time before he was caught out.

What a sad world we live in, it really is

The sad thing is, if it was your way, kooks would be running everything and criticism would be out lawed.

[Cryptozological Mascot]

"I did cold fusion."  That's what SHE said!  WOAH!!!

[Rye17]

I'm optimistic...

[27vet]

Well I can't wait for the day that oil runs out.

[Cryptozological Mascot]

27vet, on 14 October 2011 - 07:23 PM, said:

Well I can't wait for the day that oil runs out.

Why is that?  Do you have something against life saving medical equipment, toothbrushes and plastic sex toys?

[Hazzard]

Its so obviously a scam.

“Where are the quantitative descriptions of these copper radioisotopes? What detectors were used? Have the results been replicated by independent researchers? Pardon my skepticism as I await real data.”

http://www.physorg.c...sion-video.html

Edited by Hazzard, 14 October 2011 - 09:53 PM.

[Mike 215]

In the past anybody involved in Cold fusion is either killed or thrown out of the scienific community. Why? The oil companies would go bankrupt if it was true.
An example is the murder of cold fusion researcher EUGENE MALLOVE (see google) in 2004. Three suspects were caught yet seven years later they have not gone on trial.  
  Also, look up table top fusion on google. Several scientists are in trouble by claiming they have created fusion with a small device sending high frequency waves at water.
  The establishment will not tolerate it. That is why when it cost fifty cents to produce a barrel of oil in Iraq and then it is worth $85, the oil companies have a tremendous racket and will not all anybody to intefer with their profits.
  With this researher, his time is limited. I hope he has a large life insurance policy.

Edited by Mike 215, 14 October 2011 - 11:16 PM.