That was the same link I found on a google search. His profile picture makes him look like he is 25 years old. Unless that is a 15 years old picture of him, he would have been a pre-teen at the time this happened. That is not the Duaine I was thinking of at all. The guy she went to school with was in the EET program and I think he was older than us by several years. That would make the guy I was thinking of close to 50 now.
That guy was 20 years old in 1992 he looks young,but with skincare products you can look way younger than you really are.He lived there at woodstone during 1992.And I know he lived there again from 2003-2008.About the bike rides,did she go out biking the night before?Did you or Angela ever have problems with suspected/outed members of the gay/bisexual/transgendered/crossdressing ccommunity? Did you know the people who were refered to as"warlocks"? Was your apartment at woodstone near cactus or in the back of the complex? If you did ride through cave creek park what route did you take? And I would really like to get voiceinthewind to start coming clean because I am sure he knows alot more about Willaim Dewain Loyd than I do.
Edited by lucas north, 11 September 2012 - 07:04 PM.
We are starting to get repetitive with the questions about the warlocks. I never saw them, so I have no comment on them. I have never had an issue with the gay/bisexual/transgendered/cross-dressing community and I’m pretty sure she didn’t either.
I just looked at an satellite image of the old wood stone on http://www.apartment...dstone-Map.html (zoom in) and based on what I remember we were in about the middle. If you look at the picture where the red marker, there is a dual building just to the lower left. We were the top unit in the left building of that dual. I remember a parking cover outside our building and one directly across. We were also on an drive that was an angle to the rest of them.
Our bike path was directly out the front of the complex. The main exit is at the top right of that photo. We took the sidewalk to where the underpass is. Sometimes we just crossed the street and sometimes we took the underpass. We usually looped the whole park. We did live there during monsoon season so there were a few times water was running across the north side of the park and you couldn’t go all the way around. The furthest we ever went south on that trail was to the opening of the underpass. That south path was very poorly lit and I don’t think Angie would have gone that way by herself.
You still have not answered my question on how WDL associates to this. I have read all the published information I can find and that name never showed up. So how is it part of your evidence locker? You also never stated where you found the information to make this statement “He aperently didnt leave the apartment until around 1996,4 years after the killing.” As I stated it is completely false, and I also never read that in any publications.
I heard from someone posting in another online forum that you didnt leave the apartments until 1996.Thats where that came from.Now the reasons I suspect Loyd are he has been posting suspiciously about the case on other sites.In one he said"Hes too damm smart to live in the same apartments all these years" It sounded like he admires who killed Angela and Melanie.Also voiceinthewind has avoided talking about WDL.Its obvious he knows more about him and the "warlocks".I know you are tired of hearing about them,but voiceinthewind claimed he saw Angelas missing bicycle with a member of this group.I know that this group of people he was refering to probably wasnt a cult and they probably only dressed up as"warlocks" for the halloween party.If this group of people had her bicycle after the murder what does that tell you?Who else would have her bike but the person/persons who killed her?Thanks for the info on the bike route,thats crucial.Because that gives you an way better idea of how this all went down.I think she was specificly targeted.Voiceinthewind said one of the warlocks lived in the apartment.I suspect this lone member of that group living in the apartments was WDL.He might have been the one with her bike.I think that he was watching your apartment and waiting for Angela to go on her bike ride and maybe when he saw her he called up the other members on his landline to grab her.In 1992 they didnt have cell phones so he could have been watching from his window waiting.Or maybe they were just out there waiting for a victim when Angela came along.I doubt they grabed her on cactus.That street isnt as busy as dunlap,peoria or thunderbird,but still would have been to risky.They were likely in cave creek park not what is now know as sand lilly park.Voiceinthewind said the other members of that goup lived in sunnyslope.So I think they must have grabbed her and taken her back to a residence.The police said "evidence indicated she wasnt decapitated where her body was found".So this is a likely senario of what happened.Thats why I am trying to find out about the"warlocks".
Unfortunately I am of no help with the warlock thing. As for the bike, I would hope who ever claimed to see it called Silent witness or the police. If you recall Melanie’s bike was missing also. I’m not sure how many manufactures made purple bikes in the early ninety’s but purple is a pretty popular color back then. I would bet that only driving a purple bike back then got looks from people that knew what happened. Does he remember what model the bike was? I know it was all over the news but if you really saw a purple bike that was the same model and knew what happened you would remember it. Apparently they still make that model but I don’t know what years they came in purple.
All: I do not know or heard anyone mention William Dewain Loyd during the past 20 years. I did see a reference to a Wiliam in another forum a couple of years ago. The info only stated William - no last name.
Regarding seeing the purple bike at a residents apt. and other details reported in this forum, the information was called into Silent Witness, Then personally went to police station with details in Oct. 2011 and followed up with a written note on add'l info that transpired during the years that seemed to tie places and people together. Have to trust that the PD is/has investigated. After so many years have past, validating the information will be difficult, but the guilty are walking around in plain sight.
The fact that both bikes were taken could mean that the killers/killers were into bikes.I doubt they were killed because they were riding bikes.But they could have sold them to local bike shops.In newspaper articles from 1992 they gave the serial number to Angelas bike.Also police put up a sign at the park where she was found on a post inbetween the canal and the bus stop.It describes Angelas bike as a "topanga model".And Melanies as a"mens 21 speed spc hardrock sport".I was wondering if either of you saw the article in the paper just days after Melanies killing.It showed a scetch of a man who police called a "person of interest".He had shoulder length dirty blonde hair and a beard.Was describes as being a caucasian male in his 20s or 30s and had on a brown long sleve shirt.I found that article looking through Phoenix Gazette archives on microfiche.I think it was from sept.23 1993.I couldnt find it in the google archive.The articles on Melanie were scarce compared to the articles on Angela.To voiceinthewind,do you know the name of the lone member of the "warlocks" you said lived in the complex? Was he the crossdresser you refered to?And to Krakowiecki,did Angela have any male friends in the complex who rode bikes? Where there any people you rode with or was it just the two of you? Also I wanted to point out that its highly unlikely that the killer/killers only killings were Angela and Melanie.The strange thing is that Angelas killing was much more savage than Melanies.That tells you that him/they had a problem with Angela and that it was personal while Melanies killing was likely randon.I highly doubt that Angela was the first victim.There was a case I found that might be tied to these killings that happened just 2 months before Angelas murder.Robert Trimborn of Glendale last seen alive at charlies gay bar in phoenix was found dead on sept 22 1992 at his home at 61st ave and greenway.This killing has a tie in to the gay community and voiceinthewind speculated that one of the suspected individuals of the group killed Christine Jurek.There has to be other cases out there.The killer/killers must have progressed.I think that the original detective Leo Sepioupolus botched this whole investigation.I dont know who is running this case now,but they have to go back and interview everybody.This case would have been solved 20 years ago if Angela Brosso had been the daughter of a policeman,somebody rich or in politics.
Edited by lucas north, 12 September 2012 - 02:46 AM.
Injuries to the victim aren't always indicative of the relationship between the perp and the victim. In this case, I think it's most likely that there were other factors involved to account for the injuries to the victims.
Obviously, the bike path was a place for the perp to come across a vulnerable victim, and of course, after dark, a victim would be especially vulnerable.
I think the bikes were used by the perp as transportation away from the murder scenes. Right now, that's the only reason that makes sense to me as to why the bikes were taken.
It would seem to me that the perp was likely a jogger, or a walker, so that his presence on the trail didn't appear suspicious to others.
Surely, people who study crime are aware of the "satanic panic" of the 80's and 90's and that it was total bunk.
Behavioral analysts can identify the characteristics of the perp and motive of the perp of crimes such as these murders, but I've already posted that information.
The perp who committed these crimes wasn't obvious...he's wasn't suspicious. He somehow managed to blend into society which fits the profile.
The fact is, there's DNA from ONE individual- which again, supports the analysis offered by experts.
It's likely that there was no connection between the victims and the perp which makes this case the most difficult cases to solve.
If the killer was into bikes both the topanga and the hard rock are both entry level bikes. Neither bike had a suspension and were probably in the cost range of $200 retail. If your into bikes you don't stab some onto death, behead them and run off with a bike. I would think if you want to steal a bike you knock them down and grab the bike. The police said what happend to Angie was done somewhere else and she was dropped there. If the killer used her bike for transportation the killing area would have been close by. I hope the police walked the park to the north of cactus. If she took the path we always did, she could have been taken anywhere along that trail. There are tons of homes in the area and she could have been taken to any one. For all I know she might not have made it out of the complex. That might fit the bike in the apartment theory.
Like I said this was the first time she went out by herself, that I was aware of. If she went riding alone during the day I would not have known because I was in school.
Lucas I also came across you post on the sunshine and sadness article. It was posted ove a year ago and you know more now than you did then, but you seam to jump to conclusions based on what you think happened. If you are not familiar with slander please look it up. You are free to have an opinion and you are free discuss it. If you think I did it, I'm fine with that statement but when you say you know I did it and make up facts to support your theory you might be doing something illegal. Let's not go there, I want to believe you have a sincere interest in this case.
The police don't know where Brasso was murdered. They might say the murder occurred somewhere other than the discovery site, but I don't know that it was impossible that she was murdered where her body was found.
The head was recovered about 10 days later in the canal, but I wonder if it was determined how long it had been there.
I recall an article stating that Brasso took a nightly bike ride through Cave Creek Park, and the implication was that she took it alone.
The following is an exact transcript of a november 11 1992 article of the arizona republic.The title"clues sought in decapitation".The authors of the article were Frederick Bermudez and William Hermann."Phoenix police searched for clues in the decapitation and disembowelment of a young woman whose body was found Monday in a northwest Phoenix park.The victim has not been identifies,but police say it could be Angela Brosso,22,who has been missing since she failed to return home Sunday night from a bike ride.Brosso and her boyfriend live in the 2500 block of West Cactus Road at the Woodstone Apartments,which are just west of the small park where the body was found.Authorities have no suspects in the case.The corpse was found Monday morning,but police have not found the head,which eyewitnessses at the crime scene said had been severed cleanly just below the chin.Witnesses also said the victims abdomen and chest had been cut open.Police said evidence indicates that the victim was not decapitated where the body was found.Officials declined to comment on the extent of the womans injuries.The slaying is one of the Valleys most gruesome killings."I dont remember anything-`nothing in recent memory-that was anything like this" said Detective Leo Speliououlos,a police spokesman.He said that although detecives still arent sure the victim was Brosso,they are seeking information about her,such as identifying marks,from her relatives in Pennsylvania.Brosso last was seen alive about 7p.m. Sunday when she went out for her daily 90 minute bicycle ride,officials said.Her boyfriend,Joseph Krakowiecki,24,reported her missing about 4 and a half hours later.Officials told Krakowiecki they would conduct a search for Brosso if she did not return by mourning,police said.About 7:30 a.m. Monday,Krakowiecki contacted police again,and the search for Brosso began.Hours later,officers found the headless body,clad only in socks and tennis shoes,and a pile of blood soaked clothes nearby.Brossos purple 21 speed Diambondback mountain bike had not been found.Anyone who finds the bike is asked not to touch it and to call police immediately.Speliopoulos said Phoenix detectives have contacted othe rpolice agencies in nearby states,inquiring about similar mutilation slayings,but have not yet received a response.Officials have been contacted by a handfull of telephone callers who said they remember seeing a vehicle in the park Sunday night,and detectives are eager to talk to everyone who might have seen Brosso that night.Anyone who saw Brosso or who has information about the slaying is asked to call.Phoenix police 262-6141 or Silent Witness,261 8600.Brosso is employed as a trainer by Syntellect inc,a Phoenix electronics manufacturer.She is a 1989 graduate of Cedar Clif High School in Camp Hill,Pa,a Harrisbur suburb.Relative said Brosso and Krakowiekci met while both were students at a Devry branch in New Jersey.The two transfered and continued their education,Brosso in Los Angeles and Krakowiecki in Phoenix.Family and friends said Brosso moved in with Krakowiecki after she graduated earlier this year.Residents of Woodstone Apartments said the couple seemed to be getting along well.According to the missing-persons report,Krakowiecki told investigators that Brosso had no problems at home or at work.But two of Brossos co-workers told them that she and Krakowiecki were having problems and that she was planning to move out".
Ok this is the article that had the most impact on my theories about what happened to Angela Brosso.This is why I suspected Joseph Krakowiecki because of the cowerkers saying that they were having problems.And that the article said that he didnt report her missing until 11:40.Now Joseph Krakowiecki has claimed that he reported her missing at 8.And that he didnt know that they were having problems.It really boils down to who you believe.I dont know anymore I could see it both ways.Maybe the co workers thing was a lie created by the authors of this article.Or maybe it was true and Krakowiecki did know she was planning to move out.Who would know besides Angela Brosso and the 2 co workers?The most intersting bit in the article is witnesses calling police to report they remember seeing a veichle that night in the park.If the park was a dirt field with only the paved bike path on it then maybe police got tire tracks.Unless they drove on the bike path to dump the body which I assume the case because they body was found next to the bike path.Where the killers also trying to make it look like she was killed there?Why else leave the bloody clothes which could have contained there bloody fingerprints or other fragments of evidence that could lead police back to them?The fact that the clothes were bloody suggests that she was undressed after they dumped the body there.They took the bike and her walkman.They took Melanies bike and both bikes where recent models.Financial gain was probably one of the motivating factors,but not the only one.I think voiceinthewinds theory makes the most scence.Remember I only got into this case in june of 2011.I didnt know about the rumors of the"warlocks".I got these old articles the hard way by fishing through mircofiche at the library.For some stupid reason the az republics archive only goes back to january 1st 1999.I only fished through november-december 1992, sept 1993 and march 1994 articles of the republic and the now defunct gazzete,which doesnt even have an archive.My problem with voiceinthewind is this new attitude he had towards me.I know he knows more about WDL and the group of suspicious people in the apartment(see I am actually trying not to refer to them as warlocks now).Does voiceinthewind honestly believe that I am the only person in the history of the web to use multiple accounts? I was trying to remain anonymous so the people who killed Angela and Melanie wouldnt come after me.I am to close to the truth and so are you.We are in the same boat here and you seem to know enough about them to know there current wherabouts.You said one of them lives in Goodyear and could have killed Christine Jurek.If you know them they must know you.Lets cooperate before they celebrate the 20th aniversary of their most high profile known crime with an encore of us both ending up decapitated and skinned ala buffalo bill.
Edited by lucas north, 12 September 2012 - 08:45 PM.
The thing is, the injuries reported in the Brasso case most likely occurred postmortem. What this means the scene is that there wouldn't have been a lot of blood there, so I wonder what the evidence is that led investigators and/or path. to think that the decapitation didn't occur at the discovery site.
Back in 1992 it really was a dirt field. There was a paved trail that goes north and south, to the east was the canal and to the west was about 50 feet of dirt leading up to the east wall of Woodstone. Over time that was converted into a park, you can actually drive between Woodstone and canal now. They put grass and made it nicer than it was. I really dont know when they converted it.
And its obvious that the person/people who put Angelas body there wanted her found quickly.Why did they want her found? Was it about getting a reaction from the public? They had 20 days to decide what to do with the head and they chose to put it on top of a canal grate,why? About how they were able to determine that she was decapitated somewhere else.It was the blood,they could measure the amount of blood on the clothes.And the did an autopsy which is mandatory in homicides.They must have drained her and measured the blood remaining in her body with blood discovered at the site.Thats how they could determine she was decapitated elsewhere.If she was decapitated in cave creek park,why bring her back to the field? He/they must have taken her to a residence.Highly doubt it was an apartment at woodstone.That article I put up earlier today had a picture of a Srgnt.Pendergast searching woodstone with his blood hound "delta".The bloodhounds would have picked up on a scent and found the right apartment.