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The Enfield Poltergeist: what is the truth?


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#16    Anotheryahoo

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 03:03 AM

She already said she was faking some stuff. What does that tell you? I Smell Hoax . Some people want to believe anything except the most plausible, the most Plausible is people are crazier then a tree full of monkeys, we see this to be true every single day. The human race is a total nutcase. People are psycho nuts. wish I was wrong but we all know the truth. Just open tomorrows papers and you will be reading about another nutcase doing or saying something that will confirm this. Every single day, its a man screwing a horse, reporting the moon as a ufo, or saying his lover transformed into a jackass. The Human race is simply wacko. Interesting when you have video how all these things become camera shy? think about it.


#17    gatekeeper32

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 03:44 AM

The events and experiences in this situation are real,it is the causes or forces behind the phenomena which are in question.   Some will argue it to be ghosts, demons,  or ESP while others will say its a hoax and refuse to believe in any possibility of a paranormal presence.  Sadly this occurs with any reported haunting, possession, etc.    Everyone has a theory, an idea, or an explanation and as always no definitive answer can be agreed upon to everyone’s satisfaction so it remains a mystery.

Edited by gatekeeper32, 01 November 2011 - 03:47 AM.


#18    Blackwhite

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 04:28 PM

View PostRocketgirl33, on 31 October 2011 - 11:32 PM, said:

Did you watch all 7 of the videos? They talked about the "False Vocal cords" that are behind your normal vocal cords. They said that yes, she could very well have been using them. They said that you can use them but it could cause a sore throat. In 1977 they knew about the connection between teen girls during puberty and if you go read some things on it you might find it very interesting. I think people are just hung up on the 'possessed by demons' route without looking any where else. There is more than one answer, I think there are things out there that we have always blamed on ghosts and demons because that was all they taught us to believe. Now in the day of science we are finding new doors opening to old ideas.


Rocketgirl B)

Even if a young girl was able to produce such a deep, guttural voice that does not explain how two police officers witnessed a chair levitating.

Key among the independent witnesses were the police officers, who were called to the Hodgsons’ home, soon after the poltergeist first made its presence felt in August 1977.

They took statements and noted the family’s sincere terror, but in the absence of any hard evidence were sceptical about what might have taken place.

It was only as the officers were preparing to leave that they were forced to take the case more seriously: quite suddenly, a sitting room chair levitated off the carpet before their eyes and started moving slowly across the room.

“It came off the floor nearly half an inch,” recalls WPC Carolyn Heeps, one of the Metropolitan Police officers sent to investigate the haunting.

“I saw it slide off to the right about four feet before it came to rest. I checked to see if it could have slid along the floor by itself.

“I even placed a marble on the floor to see whether it would roll in the same direction as the chair. It didn’t.

“I checked for wires under the cushions and chairs and I could not see any. I couldn’t find any explanation at all.”

It also offers no convincing explanation as to how a passing lollipop lady and baker, who did not know the family, both glanced up at the house and through a top-floor window saw Janet apparently hovering above her bed.

It also does not explain how a fireplace was ripped from the wall.  How did two young girls do that?

http://www.paranorma...ence-is-broken/

Edited by Blackwhite, 01 November 2011 - 04:29 PM.


#19    encouraged

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 06:14 PM

I had a friend who was much older than I, at the time, and who was many degrees wiser, as well. He once told me, "Most often in any debate where people are polarized[--have opposing positions that are far apart--]the truth, when found out, is near the middle."

Since few people occupy the opinions found near the middle, it isn't necessarily a place to be to when friends and influence people.

I don't know what was going on or which of each things were real or fake, but I say, all in all, scientific proof or not, that from the information given in the series of seven videos, if it is a fairly accurate account of observations--which I have no reason to doubt--there was activity that was not normal to my experiences in life. I.E. a really eerie experience.

Edited by encouraged, 01 November 2011 - 06:16 PM.


#20    Rocketgirl33

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 09:19 PM

View PostBlackwhite, on 01 November 2011 - 04:28 PM, said:

Even if a young girl was able to produce such a deep, guttural voice that does not explain how two police officers witnessed a chair levitating.

Key among the independent witnesses were the police officers, who were called to the Hodgsons’ home, soon after the poltergeist first made its presence felt in August 1977.

They took statements and noted the family’s sincere terror, but in the absence of any hard evidence were sceptical about what might have taken place.

It was only as the officers were preparing to leave that they were forced to take the case more seriously: quite suddenly, a sitting room chair levitated off the carpet before their eyes and started moving slowly across the room.

“It came off the floor nearly half an inch,” recalls WPC Carolyn Heeps, one of the Metropolitan Police officers sent to investigate the haunting.

“I saw it slide off to the right about four feet before it came to rest. I checked to see if it could have slid along the floor by itself.

“I even placed a marble on the floor to see whether it would roll in the same direction as the chair. It didn’t.

“I checked for wires under the cushions and chairs and I could not see any. I couldn’t find any explanation at all.”

It also offers no convincing explanation as to how a passing lollipop lady and baker, who did not know the family, both glanced up at the house and through a top-floor window saw Janet apparently hovering above her bed.

It also does not explain how a fireplace was ripped from the wall.  How did two young girls do that?

http://www.paranorma...ence-is-broken/

I don't believe in demons or demon possession or Poltergeist. There is more good information about Poltergeist activity, and has been for a long time. I actually believe in Ghosts and spirits. I have a couple of ghost in my house that I deal with from time to time. As for the Enfield Poltergeist, that was NOT spirit driven. This was a teenage girl during puberty plus all the stress the family was gong through. As for the voice, I believe she was making that voice and as for the old man who died there, well that was public knowledge and she could have heard that from one of the neighbors. Here is a paragraph from a web site I went to. The web site is called "The Paranormal Network" and I found it at  www.mindreader.com

Here is what Lorane Forcella had to say: In the German language "Poltergeist" means "noisy ghost." Indeed Poltergeist experiences are often noisy, although the characteristic physical disturbances are no longer thought to be the work of ghosts. Rather a current,(since the 1950's)studies indicate a living person-the Poltergeist Agent-who is typically involved simultaneously in another stress inducing situation, causes the Poltergeist situation.

It has been proven in many studies that the Poltergeist activity comes from a living person. There is not a ghost in the Enfield Poltergeist. I believe the Police saw the activity, lots of people did. That in no way makes it supernatural just because a cop saw it. There is just to much evidence against it being a "Ghostly Event." Go to that web site, it has some good information about Poltergeist. There is a lot of information for and against, I choose the one that makes the most sense.


Rocketgirl B)

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#21    nyuk

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 01:03 AM

Hello Rocketgirl.
Are you not afraid or uneasy about living in a home with a ghost/entity/spirit
Also, do you know who the spirit is or why they have remained in your home.

Im only asking because im curious about why some places are haunted.
Also, when did you become aware of the spirit and how did you react the first time you realised what was happening in your home??


#22    Rocketgirl33

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 02:45 AM

View Postnyuk, on 02 November 2011 - 01:03 AM, said:

Hello Rocketgirl.
Are you not afraid or uneasy about living in a home with a ghost/entity/spirit
Also, do you know who the spirit is or why they have remained in your home.

Im only asking because im curious about why some places are haunted.
Also, when did you become aware of the spirit and how did you react the first time you realised what was happening in your home??

nyuk,

Thanks for asking, I would love to give you the info. First of all I believe that "Ghosts" are spirits with about the same abilities as we have. I think all life is made up of energy and all this energy is connected. like the electricity that runs through your home. If you turn on the kitchen light it comes on and then you go to the counter and turn on the coffee pot plus your fridge is running ect..ect.. They are all different but they all receive their power from the same source but they are different life forms. I think that there is a fine membrane that separates our world, or reality, from theirs. I also think that sometimes that membrane can become so thin and stretched from time to time that it allows us to see each other. I also think that they may feel about us what we feel about them, which in most cases is sheer panic! Maybe we freak them out as much as they freak us out. I believe that there are good spirits and bad spirits. I do NOT believe in demons or the devil or angles or jesus and god.

I bought this house with my grandma 22 years ago now. It is land with a mobile home on it and there had never been a house here before. Granny passed away in 2003 and I also lost a cousin that year. I have lost many loved ones sense I have lived here. I started noticing the spirits about 7 or 8 years ago I guess. I have seen full solid bodies and one day I saw an arm sticking out from under my bed! We see shadows all the time, I hear walking down the hall. I really hear a lot and see a lot too. I doesn't scare me. I have never felt any fear from this happenings. I really don't believe they want to hurt me any more that I want to hurt them. It is rather exciting sometimes with the goings on. It is not everyday and it happens very fast when it does.

I think the spirits here may be some of my loved ones, I think maybe they are just hanging around waiting for me or they just not ready to move on. I also think some are not anyone I know, but maybe the one spirit who has followed me pretty much my whole life, I think he is from a past life. I think that sometimes spirits just come through on their way to where ever they are off to. I think that spirits are always round us and that sometimes we see them or sense them and they us. I am not afraid, they can't hurt me, but sometimes they startle me. The arm under the bed was creepy but I wasn't afraid.
I really think all places are "haunted" we just can't see them all the time. I think that some people can see them and some can't.  But I do believe there are spirits every where all the time, like two worlds living right next to each other without knowing it.
I think the first time I saw and knew there were spirits here I was startled but it was really cool!

I hope that answers your questions, if you want to know any more just ask. You should not be afraid of ghosts, I really don't believe they can harm you and you probably scare them just as much as they scare you! I also hear voices, one of them I know is my beloved Grandma.

Rocketgirl B)

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#23    Blackwhite

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:46 AM

View PostAnotheryahoo, on 01 November 2011 - 03:03 AM, said:

She already said she was faking some stuff. What does that tell you? I Smell Hoax

She said she was faking SOME stuff, not all of it.

I'm still trying to work out how she managed to make a chair levitate in front of two police officers and pull a fireplace out of a wall.

And what about the two members of the public, who had no conn3ection with the family, who just happened to be walking past the house one night and saw, through an upper window, one of the girls levitating?

Edited by Blackwhite, 02 November 2011 - 11:54 AM.


#24    Rocketgirl33

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 07:17 PM

View PostBlackwhite, on 02 November 2011 - 11:46 AM, said:

She said she was faking SOME stuff, not all of it.

I'm still trying to work out how she managed to make a chair levitate in front of two police officers and pull a fireplace out of a wall.

And what about the two members of the public, who had no conn3ection with the family, who just happened to be walking past the house one night and saw, through an upper window, one of the girls levitating?


It is easy to explain. Go Google poltergeist and look what you find. The Poltergeist activity is coming from the Girls brain. Any person who is near enough to see it happen will be a witness. She can fake some of it but the rest of it happens and she does not have control of it. Go look it up, you will see the answers for your self. And go to several different sites don't just stop on the first one that has the only answer you WANT to hear.


Rocketgirl B)

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#25    babymable

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:16 PM

View PostRocketgirl33, on 02 November 2011 - 07:17 PM, said:

It is easy to explain. Go Google poltergeist and look what you find. The Poltergeist activity is coming from the Girls brain. Any person who is near enough to see it happen will be a witness. She can fake some of it but the rest of it happens and she does not have control of it. Go look it up, you will see the answers for your self. And go to several different sites don't just stop on the first one that has the only answer you WANT to hear.


Rocketgirl B)

So you don't believe in poltergeists/demons but you believe that she made things move, levitated, had super strength and spoke clear with a mouth full of water just by using her brain ?


#26    Rocketgirl33

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:29 PM

View Postbabymable, on 02 November 2011 - 11:16 PM, said:

So you don't believe in poltergeists/demons but you believe that she made things move, levitated, had super strength and spoke clear with a mouth full of water just by using her brain ?


OMG!! What do I have to say! She is NOT doing it like a super power or something! The energy she is displaying is coming from her brain yes, with out her control. She has NO control over it.She can't turn it off and on. Please google Poltergeist, read about it. You will see what I am talking about. It has NOTHING to do with demons or ghosts or any of that stuff. Please just go read about it?


Rocketgirl B)


So what causes poltergeist activity?

The poltergeist model is that of a situation caused by the subconscious mind of a living agent, generally someone in the household undergoing emotional and/or psychological stress. The agents are people who typically have no method of dealing with the stress on any normal level, so the subconscious takes advantage of the psychokinetic (mind over matter) ability we all have to blow off steam. In other words, you can think of the poltergeist scenario as a telekinetic temper tantrum.

Often the physical things affected in a poltergeist case can be used as clues to determine what's bothering the poltergeist agent (who can be divined, typically, by looking at who is around during all the events). The objects affected may belong to one particular individual in the household, or representative of a role of one of the family. For example, if a husband doesn't want his wife to work, instead asking her to stay home with the new baby (and effectively "in the kitchen"), kitchen appliances may act strangely when the subject is brought up in discussion. Water bursts may be representative of pent-up guilt.

Poltergeist cases have, on rare occasion, also provided visual apparitions, though these are generally distorted, archetypal or even monstrous. In other words, you don't get a basic human ghost, but some other projection of stress, guilt, anger, fear or frustration from the subconscious - a projection that is telepathically sent out to others in the household. (Note: For an ultimate expression of a "monster from the Id" rent or buy the fantastic science fiction film Forbidden Planet; it stars Leslie Nielson before he was funny).

In poltergeist cases, unlike hauntings and apparitions, we don't typically get unusual photos or effects on a magnetic field detector (magnetometer). However, because we are dealing with psychokinesis (PK), and because PK works on many levels, it would not be unlikely for the agent's PK to affect film (like the photo-psychic abilities of Ted Serios) or the magnetometers themselves.

Can poltergeist activity occur with an apparition or a haunting?

Interestingly, many of our cases can have spillover from one category to another. In some fairly rare cases, apparitions have learned to move objects, though they rarely do it with the destructive energy of poltergeist cases (guess they're not too stressed out).

In some haunting cases, the haunt itself triggers something in the witnesses, apparently activating their PK on a subconscious level, and things move. This is rare, but not too rare.

And we have had cases in which an apparition existed in a place that also had "recorded" a past, unrelated event (unrelated to the apparition). I also know of cases in which so much was subjectively experienced (apparitional and haunting phenomena) that the stress of being in the situation caused one or more people in the house to become poltergeist agents.

When we investigate (and try to help folks in their situations), we often have to tease apart not only what's normal from what's paranormal, but also what kind of phenomena we are actually dealing with.

Edited by Rocketgirl33, 02 November 2011 - 11:36 PM.

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#27    nyuk

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 03:58 AM

View PostRocketgirl33, on 02 November 2011 - 02:45 AM, said:

nyuk,

Thanks for asking, I would love to give you the info. First of all I believe that "Ghosts" are spirits with about the same abilities as we have. I think all life is made up of energy and all this energy is connected. like the electricity that runs through your home. If you turn on the kitchen light it comes on and then you go to the counter and turn on the coffee pot plus your fridge is running ect..ect.. They are all different but they all receive their power from the same source but they are different life forms. I think that there is a fine membrane that separates our world, or reality, from theirs. I also think that sometimes that membrane can become so thin and stretched from time to time that it allows us to see each other. I also think that they may feel about us what we feel about them, which in most cases is sheer panic! Maybe we freak them out as much as they freak us out. I believe that there are good spirits and bad spirits. I do NOT believe in demons or the devil or angles or jesus and god.

I bought this house with my grandma 22 years ago now. It is land with a mobile home on it and there had never been a house here before. Granny passed away in 2003 and I also lost a cousin that year. I have lost many loved ones sense I have lived here. I started noticing the spirits about 7 or 8 years ago I guess. I have seen full solid bodies and one day I saw an arm sticking out from under my bed! We see shadows all the time, I hear walking down the hall. I really hear a lot and see a lot too. I doesn't scare me. I have never felt any fear from this happenings. I really don't believe they want to hurt me any more that I want to hurt them. It is rather exciting sometimes with the goings on. It is not everyday and it happens very fast when it does.

I think the spirits here may be some of my loved ones, I think maybe they are just hanging around waiting for me or they just not ready to move on. I also think some are not anyone I know, but maybe the one spirit who has followed me pretty much my whole life, I think he is from a past life. I think that sometimes spirits just come through on their way to where ever they are off to. I think that spirits are always round us and that sometimes we see them or sense them and they us. I am not afraid, they can't hurt me, but sometimes they startle me. The arm under the bed was creepy but I wasn't afraid.
I really think all places are "haunted" we just can't see them all the time. I think that some people can see them and some can't.  But I do believe there are spirits every where all the time, like two worlds living right next to each other without knowing it.
I think the first time I saw and knew there were spirits here I was startled but it was really cool!

I hope that answers your questions, if you want to know any more just ask. You should not be afraid of ghosts, I really don't believe they can harm you and you probably scare them just as much as they scare you! I also hear voices, one of them I know is my beloved Grandma.

Rocketgirl B)

Thanks for answering Rocketgirl.
I got to admit, it would freak me out if i saw stuff like that.
Ive often wondered if ghosts are living people in a parralell world.
Or perhaps a different timeline, which could account for some hauntings.
I too believe we have lived before and when we die, we are reborn.
Maybe some people can remember small parts of their earlier lives. This may account for some deja vu.

Thankyou again for answering my questions :)


#28    Rocketgirl33

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 01:53 AM

View Postnyuk, on 03 November 2011 - 03:58 AM, said:

Thanks for answering Rocketgirl.
I got to admit, it would freak me out if i saw stuff like that.
Ive often wondered if ghosts are living people in a parralell world.
Or perhaps a different timeline, which could account for some hauntings.
I too believe we have lived before and when we die, we are reborn.
Maybe some people can remember small parts of their earlier lives. This may account for some deja vu.

Thankyou again for answering my questions :)

You are very welcome. I don't have all the answers, just the answers that make the most sense to me. I don't really fear these spirits as we really don't see each other very often. I do have one spirit who has been following me my whole life. He has shown himself to me a few times, solid just like he was as real as I am right now. It is weird but he doesn't frighten me, I think we are connected in some way. I remember a few past lives and how I died in them. It is a cool feeling when you realize that you are seeing or remembering a past life. You will find the answers that make the most sense to you. Have fun and laugh as much as possible!


Light, Love and understanding,
Rachel Elizabeth
AKA Rocketgirl B)

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S. King, IT

#29    encouraged

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 03:53 AM

View PostRocketgirl33, on 02 November 2011 - 11:29 PM, said:

OMG!! What do I have to say! She is NOT doing it like a super power or something! The energy she is displaying is coming from her brain yes, with out her control. She has NO control over it.She can't turn it off and on. Please google Poltergeist, read about it. You will see what I am talking about. It has NOTHING to do with demons or ghosts or any of that stuff. Please just go read about it?
I have done what you have asked, in that I went to wikipedia.com/poltergeist read it and every citing in the references list and some additional to that, amounting to the links below.

I was unable to find an intolerance to other possibilities as you have demonstrated, nor have I found that anyone has concluded what causes such activity. The work you have referred to and things you have said track with the leading theories of the studies of that topic. However, as to if the stresses cause the weird things that happen or provide a channel through which other energies or spirits attach to a person and then they cause the things to happen... those two possibilities don't seem to be set in concrete yet. It is even possible that a little of both goes on.

An interesting thought I had was that teleportation of things as ascribed to in the Enfield experience demonstrates an ability to gather dog hair and make it into a small creature as was the entity of Gef in the Gef mongoose story. Thereby, the one investigator's conclusion of it not being a poltergeist is subject to question. Note that Gef did not always remain with the young daughter, which would be required if it was all her energy being manifested.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestion, others may enjoy the two evenings reading list as I did! The Centrahoma Story everybody should read: The stone throwing poltergeist!

http://books.google....s Mannheim&cd=2
http://www.dailymail...itated-bed.html
http://dalbyspook.110mb.com/gef.html
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Allan_Kardec
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Poltergeist
http://www.geister-u...t_Rosenheim.htm
http://www.ghosts.or.../index2693.html
http://www.ghosts.or.../index2693.html
http://jill-stefko.s...ist-1938-a24060
http://www.mindsetce...m/archives/5757
http://www.newscient.../article/dn1720
http://ouriel.pagesp...e rosenheim.htm
http://www.themystic...oltergeist.html
http://www.themystic...oltergeist.html
http://wwrn.org/articles/14726/
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Poltergeist
http://news.bbc.co.u...and/7240405.stm
http://testament.org...rteantimes.html
http://www.thestar.co.uk/
http://www.thesun.co...their-home.html
http://www.thesun.co...ls-the-dog.html
http://www.thesun.co...ok-packing.html


#30    nyuk

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 08:13 PM

Thanks Rachel :)

Wow......thats a heck of a lot of links and reading encouraged.
As i admit i am far too lazy to trawl through that lot, i have read through your post instead.
I consider your post to be a fair, impartial summary so thankyou  :)
nyuk :)





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