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What do you believe happens after death?


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#31    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 06:07 PM

View PostTattoomike, on 03 November 2011 - 01:57 AM, said:

I died for 7 minutes 4 years ago due to a stroke I had. During the time they lost me, I was aware of everything going on...and that's all I'll say. It's something I don't like to go into detail about really. But I did indeed know everything happening, past that I keep the details to myself. I came out of that stroke blind for a month before my vision returned, and it took 3 months of physical therapy to walk again. Today, I'm back to 100% normal except for some leftover problems with bright lights and nerve damage to my left arm. I worry about living now..not death. Honestly I have no fear of death now. And no, I'm not a Christian...nor do I have any religious beliefs that I'm trying push. Everyone, especially someone as young as 16, should just live and enjoy it. Death will take care of itself when the times comes.

Something similar happened to me. I had an alergic reaction to hazelnuts with no previous known nut allergy which stopped my heart and breathing.

I dont think the mind is part of the brain but is the temporary home of it.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 16 November 2011 - 06:08 PM.


#32    Squit

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 07:05 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 03 November 2011 - 05:47 AM, said:

Wrong. Those beleifs were absolutely not created from fear of death. They were observed from shamanic trance. truly spiritual or not, the foundations of spirituality have a beginning in actual experiences not fluffy wishful thinking. This is a stance skeptics like to take who do not push themselves to try and understand the depths of why people beleive what they do. NDEs being one of them. A documented and measurable human condition.
Observed from shamanic trance and meditation, yes; people essentially had dreams in which their subconscious mind created a soothing thought, and naively interpreted it as truth. Unconscious wish-fulfillment.
Nobody has a single logical reason for believing in anything supernatural; it's all faith, which, by definition, is belief without reason/evidence. It is completely illogical, and only a desperate (or astoundingly stupid) human being would commit themselves to such a belief.
As for NDEs, an experiment was set up a while ago in which an object was hidden in an operating room in a position that could only be seen from above. Later, patients claiming to have had an NDE in that operating room were to be questioned on their experience to see if they had noticed the object, in order to verify whether their experience was real or simply their imagination. Funnily enough, the results were never published. Wonder why that was...
This was the only time this 'documented and measurable human condition' has actually been reliably measured.

Edited by Squit, 16 November 2011 - 07:19 PM.


#33    Spring Heeled Jerk

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 09:47 PM

The eternal bliss of absolute nothingness!  Except that there will be no 'bliss', 'cos there's nothing left to experience it.  So, in a nutshell, nothing I s'pose.

For some reason this thread reminded me of this quote.............

"I will call no being good who is not what I mean when I apply that epithet to my fellow creatures; and if such a creature can sentence me to hell for not so calling him, to hell I will go."
-- John Stuart Mill

So There's always that place waiting for me if the superstitionists are right.

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#34    nyuk

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 12:11 AM

View PostSquit, on 16 November 2011 - 07:05 PM, said:

Observed from shamanic trance and meditation, yes; people essentially had dreams in which their subconscious mind created a soothing thought, and naively interpreted it as truth. Unconscious wish-fulfillment.
Nobody has a single logical reason for believing in anything supernatural; it's all faith, which, by definition, is belief without reason/evidence. It is completely illogical, and only a desperate (or astoundingly stupid) human being would commit themselves to such a belief.
As for NDEs, an experiment was set up a while ago in which an object was hidden in an operating room in a position that could only be seen from above. Later, patients claiming to have had an NDE in that operating room were to be questioned on their experience to see if they had noticed the object, in order to verify whether their experience was real or simply their imagination. Funnily enough, the results were never published. Wonder why that was...
This was the only time this 'documented and measurable human condition' has actually been reliably measured.

Isnt believing in god based on faith also?
Because i believe. Does this mean i am a stupid person?

Perhaps no report/ findings were published re NDEs because it did prove these experiences to be true


#35    Sakari

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 12:22 AM

I have answered this before, and will the same way.....

Anyone whom has had lengthy surgery and had anesthesia will know what I mean...

I had a 8 hour surgery, when I counted to 3 ( made it to 2 )....The next thing I remember is seeing the Nurse saying hello.....The 8 hours in-between......

Nothing, notta, nothing there at all......

Like people say " lights out "......

I will not say I believe 100% this is what happens, because I do not really know what to believe....

But after that experience, and if it is like that, not really any reason to worry about life or death is there......

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#36    Squit

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 12:45 AM

View Postnyuk, on 17 November 2011 - 12:11 AM, said:

Isnt believing in god based on faith also?
Because i believe. Does this mean i am a stupid person?

Perhaps no report/ findings were published re NDEs because it did prove these experiences to be true

Or it is a psychological need of yours to believe. Perhaps, without faith, you wouldn't be able to deal with life. There are many that can't, and fall into severe depression as a result.
I know several people who are incredibly intelligent, but refuse to even question the existence of God for obvious fear of losing their faith.
Blaise Pascal, a brilliant mathematician, gave up the study of his subject, fearing that it would interfere with his belief in God.
If you can give me a logical reason as to why you do believe, however, I shall take back my comment.

And if the experiences were found to be true, do you not think there would have been great excitement? The result would have been published, and everybody would have heard about it. Proving the existence of an afterlife is huge news, and I see no reason why such proof would be withheld from the public.

Edited by Squit, 17 November 2011 - 12:50 AM.


#37    nyuk

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 03:56 AM

View PostSquit, on 17 November 2011 - 12:45 AM, said:

Or it is a psychological need of yours to believe. Perhaps, without faith, you wouldn't be able to deal with life. There are many that can't, and fall into severe depression as a result.
I know several people who are incredibly intelligent, but refuse to even question the existence of God for obvious fear of losing their faith.
Blaise Pascal, a brilliant mathematician, gave up the study of his subject, fearing that it would interfere with his belief in God.
If you can give me a logical reason as to why you do believe, however, I shall take back my comment.

And if the experiences were found to be true, do you not think there would have been great excitement? The result would have been published, and everybody would have heard about it. Proving the existence of an afterlife is huge news, and I see no reason why such proof would be withheld from the public.


Actually, i am quite happy with my life. I believe in god much the same as millions of other people. The church has provided me with guidance and comfort throughout my life.
We both know i cannot prove that god, his son jesus, archangels etc exist.
It is a matter of my religion and belief.

Would i collapse into depression without my religion and my beliefs??
I honestly cannot answer that question as i have no idea.

I do believe NDEs do happen.
Can i prove it?
Obviously not, it hasnt happened to me.
I have read many accounts about NDEs, i choose to believe them, as is my choice.

This doesnt make me a stupid person.

However, if you can prove to me that god, jesus, angels etc  dont exist, i am willing to change my mind about the subject.

Also, if you can prove to me that NDEs never happen, beyond any doubt, i shall be willing to change my belief in those as well.

So, do you honestly believe you can prove beyond doubt these beliefs i have are completely wrong please proceed to do so.

Who looks a bit stupid now i wonder???

Edited by nyuk, 17 November 2011 - 04:01 AM.


#38    trancelikestate

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 04:17 AM

View Postfarside, on 03 November 2011 - 02:41 AM, said:

For me a “near death experience” (such as tattomike had), and actually being dead are two entirely different things.    I mean people who are actually dead never come back to talk about it – they stay dead – that’s what it is by definition.

My father said to me once – do you remember what it was like before you were born?  That’s pretty much what it will be like after you die.    Makes perfect sense to me.  One thing you can be sure of – you’ll get as many different opinions as people you ask – and you know what....nobody knows for sure.  There is no factual answer to that one!

do you remember being a newborn, less than a year old either? alot of peoples first memories even start later than that. just because you dont remember doesnt mean you didnt exist


#39    Squit

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 02:07 PM

View Postnyuk, on 17 November 2011 - 03:56 AM, said:

Actually, i am quite happy with my life. I believe in god much the same as millions of other people. The church has provided me with guidance and comfort throughout my life.
We both know i cannot prove that god, his son jesus, archangels etc exist.
It is a matter of my religion and belief.

Would i collapse into depression without my religion and my beliefs??
I honestly cannot answer that question as i have no idea.

I do believe NDEs do happen.
Can i prove it?
Obviously not, it hasnt happened to me.
I have read many accounts about NDEs, i choose to believe them, as is my choice.

This doesnt make me a stupid person.

However, if you can prove to me that god, jesus, angels etc  dont exist, i am willing to change my mind about the subject.

Also, if you can prove to me that NDEs never happen, beyond any doubt, i shall be willing to change my belief in those as well.

So, do you honestly believe you can prove beyond doubt these beliefs i have are completely wrong please proceed to do so.

Who looks a bit stupid now i wonder???

I didn't say you were stupid. I said it was a possibility, and that the other alternative is that believing in God is a psychological need of yours, to comfort the innate fear of death all humans suffer with. You say that the Church has offered you with comfort and guidance, and this is exactly my point; this is what belief offers, and the people who take up that offer without needing to be convinced with evidence, clearly, on some level, NEED to believe.

Also, asking me to prove that these things don't exist is absurd. The religious are making claims of an afterlife, of the existence of God etc, and so the burden of proof is on them. If I told you I could fly, you would have absolutely no evidence to prove me wrong, but that doesn't mean you should accept this random claim as truth without any shred of evidence from me. You could, by all means, have faith in what I, somebody you don't know, tell you, but do you not think that ridiculous?

Edited by Squit, 17 November 2011 - 02:49 PM.


#40    SpiritWalker7

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 02:13 PM

I believe that our mind lives on, in a sense. Our spiritual self will remain "alive", while are physical self dies.


#41    nyuk

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 06:53 PM

View PostSquit, on 17 November 2011 - 02:07 PM, said:

I didn't say you were stupid. I said it was a possibility, and that the other alternative is that believing in God is a psychological need of yours, to comfort the innate fear of death all humans suffer with. You say that the Church has offered you with comfort and guidance, and this is exactly my point; this is what belief offers, and the people who take up that offer without needing to be convinced with evidence, clearly, on some level, NEED to believe.

Also, asking me to prove that these things don't exist is absurd. The religious are making claims of an afterlife, of the existence of God etc, and so the burden of proof is on them. If I told you I could fly, you would have absolutely no evidence to prove me wrong, but that doesn't mean you should accept this random claim as truth without any shred of evidence from me. You could, by all means, have faith in what I, somebody you don't know, tell you, but do you not think that ridiculous?

Very good reply Squit :)
I can see your point.
At the end of the day, almost everything we believe connected to religion, ndes the afterlife is based on faith.

I cannot prove, you cannot disprove.
Actually, re afterlife, i believe in reincarnation, but that is only my belief.

I guess we should agree to differ on our beliefs :)


Btw, can you fly???
(Joke)


#42    Squit

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 07:19 PM

View Postnyuk, on 17 November 2011 - 06:53 PM, said:

Very good reply Squit :)
I can see your point.
At the end of the day, almost everything we believe connected to religion, ndes the afterlife is based on faith.

I cannot prove, you cannot disprove.
Actually, re afterlife, i believe in reincarnation, but that is only my belief.

I guess we should agree to differ on our beliefs :)


Btw, can you fly???
(Joke)

Made me smile :)

And yeah, agreed.
I accept the possibility of a God, but that's all it is for me: a possibility. I honestly cannot see it mattering much while we are alive, anyway.
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lead a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." - Marcus Aurelius

About reincarnation, I think that theory holds more ground than any others, for what it's worth.


#43    nyuk

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 11:57 PM

Cheers Squit,
Cannot see how anyone could feel that post needs debate.

I think quite a lot of people feel the reincarnation  theory may be more of a possibility.
;)


#44    White Crane Feather

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 03:24 PM

View PostSakari, on 17 November 2011 - 12:22 AM, said:

I have answered this before, and will the same way.....

Anyone whom has had lengthy surgery and had anesthesia will know what I mean...

I had a 8 hour surgery, when I counted to 3 ( made it to 2 )....The next thing I remember is seeing the Nurse saying hello.....The 8 hours in-between......

Nothing, notta, nothing there at all......

Like people say " lights out "......

I will not say I believe 100% this is what happens, because I do not really know what to believe....

But after that experience, and if it is like that, not really any reason to worry about life or death is there......
Yeah during my recent knee surgery... My anestisiologist is a friend of mine. We have lunch every week. He is a very smart man. I requested him. He knew I was going to try to project out as an experiment. He did not ask me to count. He said " this is only oxygen." Then bam.... I was waking up afterward. I asked him latter how come it went down like that. He said his job is to make me not aware and he knew what I was up to so he thwarted it on purpose. He dosnt think I could accomplish it through anestisia, but those guys dont play games. Probably for the better.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#45    Sakari

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 05:39 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 18 November 2011 - 03:24 PM, said:

Yeah during my recent knee surgery... My anestisiologist is a friend of mine. We have lunch every week. He is a very smart man. I requested him. He knew I was going to try to project out as an experiment. He did not ask me to count. He said " this is only oxygen." Then bam.... I was waking up afterward. I asked him latter how come it went down like that. He said his job is to make me not aware and he knew what I was up to so he thwarted it on purpose. He dosnt think I could accomplish it through anestisia, but those guys dont play games. Probably for the better.


Sounds like a good friend :)   ......Looked after you.

Same surgery here ( maybe ), re-constructive, torn MCL and ACL.....

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