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'TRAGIC MILESTONE' - 1000 US troops dead


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#46    Mekorig

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 12:59 PM

Ahh..the allies of the USA...the coallition of the willing...UK and a lot more of small countries how allies whit USA by bribery and threat.


Iīm an evil pinko UN slave liberal commie

I don't think any of these "The Vague Society of Nebulous Meanies are going to take over the world and light up a planet" theories worry too much about practical considerations like that. It's all about rousing ill-informed, paranoiac fear, not making sense.

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#47    Homer

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 01:08 PM

QUOTE(Dowdy @ Sep 9 2004, 04:12 AM)
QUOTE
Although there is murder in all wars, war itself is not murder. To murder is to kill another human being unlawfully, which unfortunately is being done by the terrorists when they kill innocent people, such as civilians and children.


well, considering that this war was illegal it is hence, Unlawful.

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Dowdy,
Some people say the U.S. rushed into war without giving the U.N. or the inspectors time to do their job. 10 U.N. resolutions in almost a 12 year period, and still the Iraqi government didn't do what the U.N. legally required(and the Iraqi government approved). Below is the list of resolutions. The U.N. not only lost it's backbone, but also it's integrity, as it repeatedly failed to punish or authorize the punishment of international lawlessness.

U.N. Security Council Resolution 687   3 April 1991;  Iraq approves of
resolution 10 April 1991

Iraq shall unconditionally accept the destruction, removal, or rendering
harmless, under international supervision, of: (A) All chemical and
biological weapons and all stocks of agents and all related subsystems and
components and all research, development, support and manufacturing
facilities; B. All ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150
kilometres and related major parts, and repair and production facilities;

Iraq shall unconditionally agree not to acquire or develop nuclear weapons
or nuclear-weapons-usable material or any subsystems or components or any
research, development, support or manufacturing facilities related to the
above.

The forming of a Special Commission, which shall carry out immediate on-site
inspection of Iraq's biological, chemical and missile capabilities

U.N. Security Council Resolution 707   15 August 1991
(Noting with grave concern the letters dated 26 June 1991,  28 June 1991 and
4 July 1991 from the Secretary-General, conveying information obtained from
the Executive Chairman of the Special Commission and the Director-General of
the IAEA which establishes Iraq's failure to comply with its obligations
under resolution 687 (1991))
,

allow the Special Commission, the IAEA and their Inspection Teams immediate,
unconditional and unrestricted access to any and all areas, facilities,
equipment, records and means of transportation which they wish to inspect

cease immediately any attempt to conceal, or any movement or destruction of
any material or equipment relating to its nuclear, chemical or biological
weapons or ballistic missile programmes, or material or equipment relating
to its other nuclear activities without notification to and prior consent of
the Special Commission

Iraq will fully and immediately cooperate in the inspection of the locations
identified by the Special Commission and present for immediate inspection
any of those items that may have been transported from those locations

make available immediately to the Special Commission, the IAEA and their
Inspection Teams any items to which they were previously denied access

U.N. Security Council Resolution 715   11 October 1991
Demands that Iraq meet unconditionally all its obligations under the plans
approved by the present resolution and cooperate fully with the Special
Commission and the Director General of the International Atomic Energy
Agency in carrying out the plans

U.N. Security Council Resolution 1060   12 June 1996
Emphasizing the importance the Council attaches to full compliance by Iraq
with its obligations under resolutions 687 (1991), 707 (1991) and 715 (1991)
to permit immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to the Special
Commission to any site which the Commission wishes to inspect.

Demands that Iraq cooperate fully with the Special Commission in
accordance with the relevant resolutions; and that the Government of Iraq
allow the Special Commission inspection teams immediate, unconditional and
unrestricted access to any and all areas, facilities, equipment, records and means of transportation which they wish to inspect

U.N. Security Council Resolution 1115   21 June 1997
Determined to ensure full compliance by Iraq with its obligations under all
previous resolutions, in particular resolutions 687 (1991), 707 (1991), 715
(1991) and 1060 (1996) to permit immediate, unconditional and unrestricted
access to the Special Commission to any site which the Commission wishes to
inspect


Demands that Iraq cooperate fully with the Special Commission in accordance
with the relevant resolutions; and that the Government of Iraq allow the
Special Commission inspection teams immediate, unconditional and
unrestricted access to any and all areas, facilities, equipment, records and
means of transportation which they wish to inspect in accordance with the
mandate of the Special Commission;

Demands further that the Government of Iraq give immediate, unconditional
and unrestricted access
to officials and other persons under the authority
of the Iraqi Government whom the Special Commission wishes to interview, so
that the Special Commission may fully discharge its mandate

U.N. Security Council Resolution 1134   23 October 1997
Expressing grave concern at the report of additional incidents since the
adoption of resolution 1115 (1997) in which access by the Special Commission
inspection teams to sites in Iraq designated for inspection by the
Commission was again denied by the Iraqi authorities


Reaffirming its determination to ensure full compliance by Iraq with all its
obligations under all previous relevant resolutions and reiterating its
demand that Iraq allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to
the Special Commission to any site which the Commission wishes to inspect...

Condemns the repeated refusal of the Iraqi authorities, as detailed in the
report of the Executive Chairman of the Special Commission, to allow access
to sites designated by the Special Commission, and especially Iraqi actions
endangering the safety of Special Commission personnel, the removal and
destruction of documents of interest to the Special Commission and
interference with the freedom of movement of Special Commission personnel  decides that such refusals to cooperate constitute a flagrant violation of
Security Council resolutions 687 (1991), 707 (1991), 715 (1991) and 1060
(1996)


Demands in particular that Iraq without delay allow the Special Commission
inspection teams immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to any and
all areas, facilities, equipment, records and means of transportation which
they wish to inspect in accordance with the mandate of the Special
Commission, as well as to officials and other persons under the authority of
the Iraqi Government whom the Special Commission wishes to interview so that
the Special Commission may fully discharge its mandate

U.N. Security Council Resolution  1137   12 November 1997
Recalling further the Statement of its President of 29 October 1997 in which
the Council condemned the decision of the Government of Iraq to try to
dictate the terms of its compliance with its obligation to cooperate with
the Special Commission, and warned of the serious consequences of Iraq's
failure to comply immediately and fully and without conditions or
restrictions with its obligations under the relevant resolutions


U.N. Security Council Resolution  1194   9 September 1998

Determined to ensure full compliance by Iraq with its obligations under all
previous resolutions
, in particular resolutions 687 (1991), 707 (1991), 715
(1991), 1060 (1996), 1115 (1997) and 1154 (1998), to permit immediate,
unconditional and unrestricted access to the Special Commission and the IAEA
to all sites which they wish to inspect, and to provide the Special
Commission and the IAEA with all the cooperation necessary for them to
fulfil their mandates under those resolutions

U.N. Security Council Resolution  1205   5 November 1998
Determined to ensure immediate and full compliance by Iraq without
conditions or restrictions
with its obligations under resolution 687 (1991)
of 3 April 1991 and the other relevant resolutions

Demands that Iraq rescind immediately and unconditionally the decision of
31 October 1998, as well as the decision of 5 August 1998, to suspend
cooperation with the Special Commission and to maintain restrictions on the
work of the IAEA, and that Iraq provide immediate, complete and
unconditional cooperation with the Special Commission and the IAEA

U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441   8 November 2002
All 15 council members voted for the resolution.
The resolution states that Iraq remains in material breach of council
resolutions relating to Iraq's 1990 invasion of Kuwait.
It gives UNMOVIC and IAEA, among other things, unrestricted rights of entry and travel into and throughout Iraq; provides for U.N. security for the inspectors; gives the inspectors the right to freeze sites and declare exclusion zones; and gives them the right to conduct interviews, either inside or outside the country, without the presence of Iraqi officials. Most importantly, it gives the inspectors immediate, unconditional, and unrestricted access to all sites in Iraq, including so-called presidential sites.

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#48    bathory

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 01:27 PM

thats why i think the UN has had its time



#49    Cradle of Fish

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 01:48 PM

1000 Americans dead eh?

How many Iraqis?

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#50    bathory

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 01:49 PM

QUOTE
1000 Americans dead eh?

How many Iraqis?


a long way from the 300 000 + Saddam was responsible for


#51    Lottie

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 01:52 PM

I do not mean to be insulting and am not aiming this at you or anyone specific on the board. But this thread yet again is showing how Americans CAN BE very Insular and that if it does not directly effect the US then who cares.
This is not just about America this is about Terrorism on a global scale! Terrorism does not just effect America, America is not the only country that has ever suffered to the hands of Terrorism. Terrorism was around a long time before 9/11.


QUOTE
The U.N. not only lost it's backbone, but also it's integrity, as it repeatedly failed to punish or authorize the punishment of international lawlessness.


The problem with the UN as I mentioned in another thread is that legally it is all based around Human Rights Laws by a few bleeding hearts who unfortunately citizens seem to listen to.. and again I say this is unfortunate.

As for Bush finishing his Father's war I have to say that if it was not for the bleeding hearts then Bush senior would of finished the war there and then and quite possibly we would not be having this war now with Iraq.
I don't particulalry like Bush and his policies but I do feel with Iraq it was the correct thing for him to do because of the links with the Terrorits.  I feel that whether it had been Bush or any other man in that position the same scenario would of happened regardless.

QUOTE
The United States is not capable of fighting the war on terror on a global scale by themselves, and as a global community, we need to pool our resources to combat this new type of enemy.



The US or have you forgotten is not fighting the War on Terror on its own. Who was by your side directly after the planes flew into the Twin Towers? Yes the UK and yes we may be a small country but that does not mean that we are not a powerful and influential nation ourselves as are many other countries.
Without the UK's backing and the other countries that became involved, the US could certainly not of been able to of done this.

Edited by Lottie, 09 September 2004 - 01:55 PM.


#52    Cradle of Fish

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 01:54 PM

Is there actually an official number of Iraqi casualties since the beginning of this invasion?

My point is that they call 1000 dead soldiers a milestone when they didnt mention when there were 1000 deceased Iraqis.

They way I see it the US soldiers are innocent, its the politicians who are responsible for this, and it is sad that 1000 lives have been wasted so far, especially when so many soldiers were still fairly young.

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#53    Talon

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 02:21 PM

QUOTE
It is unfortunate that the memories of some are so short. It might do well to try and remember that Sadaam invaded Kuwait, killing and raping innocent women and children along the way. "Daddy" kicked him out of Kuwait. Sadaam also plotted to assassinate "Daddy".



Exactly, whatís your point?  huh.gif Bush Snr. went to war, but instead of finishing it when he should have, pulled out, leaving Bush Jr. to finish it with some excuse about Al-Queda, when there were other countries out there with far more links than Iraq. If the US had wanted to do the right thing, it would have wiped out Saddam in the first war, when the world supported it. Instead of leaving him in there and attacking under false pretences and getting the Islamic world so annoyed its just created more terrorists.


QUOTE
Sadaam also murdered over 300,000 of his own countrymen.


And Zimbabwe and Sudan are killing theirs, but the US isnít invading. So I donít think that had anything to do with Bushís decision.

QUOTE
Sadaam and his sons routinely raped young girls and their mothers for days at a time.


Indeed and so do other dictators.



QUOTE
We took out the Sadaam first as part of a strategic plan TalonÖ.Please try to see the broader, much larger picture.


I am seeing the big picture Joc. Iím seeing the utter hypocrisy by the Bush Administration. The strategic plan seems to be, help those dictators who like the US, kill those who donít. What they do to their people, doesnít really matter.

Anyway, as weíve already established, the UN is rather spineless when it comes to dealing with everyone because of, as Lottie points out, Human Rights tying their hands behind their back. That at least makes them consistent. What Bush condemns and condones is far from consistent.


"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -Plato

#54    Michelle

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 03:23 PM



I don't mean to get off topic but what happened to Suddam? There has been nothing in the news about him hardly since his "trial". Not in the US anyway. ph34r.gif


#55    Talon

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 03:25 PM

Trail isn't over, just begun. I posted a few articles about it last week.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...showtopic=21498

Edited by Talon S., 09 September 2004 - 03:26 PM.

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#56    bathory

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 03:37 PM

QUOTE
And Zimbabwe and Sudan are killing theirs, but the US isnít invading. So I donít think that had anything to do with Bushís decision.


yeah because you know the US have unlimited resources, ffs why do you even use this arguement?

What exactly is the UN doing?
noone else is doing anything, i don't think any other country is in a position to criticise the Bush administration over where it chooses to intervene when they themselves sit back and do nothing.


#57    Talon

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 03:38 PM

QUOTE
yeah because you know the US have unlimited resources, ffs why do you even use this arguement?


There were dictators before the invasion of Iraq who never got attacked.

QUOTE
What exactly is the UN doing?
noone else is doing anything, i don't think any other country is in a position to criticise the Bush administration over where it chooses to intervene when they themselves sit back and do nothing.


We've already discussed this

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -Plato

#58    Homer

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 03:43 PM

QUOTE(Lottie @ Sep 9 2004, 10:52 AM)
QUOTE
The United States is not capable of fighting the war on terror on a global scale by themselves, and as a global community, we need to pool our resources to combat this new type of enemy.


The US or have you forgotten is not fighting the War on Terror on its own. Who was by your side directly after the planes flew into the Twin Towers? Yes the UK and yes we may be a small country but that does not mean that we are not a powerful and influential nation ourselves as are many other countries.
Without the UK's backing and the other countries that became involved, the US could certainly not of been able to of done this.

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Lottie, I couldn't agree with you more. You took my statement out of context. The quote above was my reply to Kismit.
Kismit stated: "Shouldn't George Bush if he is trully interested in defending us all against terrorist attack be putting more resourses into these other events?" and "I believe George really needs to appear to be helping out particularly in Beslan , to avoid what could become an international incident."

My response, as noted, was that it isn't only up to the U.S., but the global community as a whole.

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#59    Babs

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 04:49 PM

joc wrote:
QUOTE
Please try to see the broader picture. It is essentail to your understanding of the war on terror.


I think that is at the crux of the problem....many do not see the broader picture and many do not understand terror or how to fight it. We have differing views on  how to combat terror.

Homer wrote:
QUOTE
The U.S .is not capable of fighting the war on terror on a global scale by themselves, and as a global community we need to pool our resources and combat this new type of enemy.


QUOTE
More can be done but the U.S. can't do it alone. Intelligence should be shared, and other nations need to step up, even taking leadership roles to combat terrorism.


I totally agree with Homer. If the U.S. were to take full responsibility and give all it's resources to the war on terror, the U.S. would go down the tubes. (which is what I have said before)..... And then, where would the world be?

Every country has to do what it has to do to survive, just as the U.S. has to do what it has to do. But if we are going to make it, and win this war on terror, we will have to all come together.

"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation"

Henry David Thoreau...

#60    wunarmdscissor

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 07:32 PM

QUOTE
many do not understand terror or how to fight it. We have differing views on how to combat terror.


How many times babs??

Terrorism has been around in my country for decades, how dare you say we dont understand it or how to fight it....


Does the IRA not count no????

Really babs how many times am i gonna have to say this to you. we were brought up on terrorist attacks.

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