161 replies to this topic

[Beckys_Mom]

Mr Right Wing, on 22 November 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

The issue is one of religious freedom.

I cannot believe it is over a religious freedom... It has to have more to it.. Like how he handled it?    HR  ( human resources) if they are called in, their job is to make sure an employee is treated fairly... So when you are sent home on a suspension... They all get together to review your case ...Then a decision is reached.. I know this first hand, been there and had to sit in on a few meetings while in management...    No one will fire you over a sticker..that will change next day...    And when you speak of religious freedom.. The factory is in the bible belt, I think they understand religious freedom

[Setton]

Beckys_Mom, on 22 November 2011 - 11:06 PM, said:

Christians DO in fact believe  Jesus will protect them.... They believe Jesus saves and protect.. It is a fact


Again Christians believe God / Jesus protects them...it is a fact like it or not..

That may be what you think Christians believe. They might think otherwise.

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......And yet earlier you said this..



Well then why would you feel unsure if you would receive any of gods protection? Better still   to add - Why would you lack trust in God to protect you?...That sure doesn't sound like someone who is a firm true believer in God...  With doubts like that .. not a chance

Thanks but I think I can decide for myself what I believe. If you don't understand it, that's your lookout.

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Look no company is simply going to fire you for not wanting to wear a lousey sticker..Not when they made him wait 3 days and had to reach a decision from HR..  Human resources are there to see an employee is treated fairly and by the book.

Then I'll wait and see if anything comes up. Like I've said several times. There's no point speculating.

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It is not as if they were asking him to wear some health and safety clothing  or something that is part of their uniform... It was a sticky peace of paper to note how many days they were accident free...   There has to be a lot more to this story... Like  How the man truly handled it...?  
  When a company gives you a 3 day suspension, that means they are waiting from higher authority and HR to decide what steps to take next  . .this is a fact.. I have worked in management myself and had to do this.....  So a case it put forward  and depending on how an employee handles a situation, then they look at your past records ... If they feel you have over stepped the mark again.. they can fire you....  They are NOT going to fire you over a sticker.. there is always more to it...

See above.

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You chose to pull up my posts to start an argument...  So tell me why I am not entitled to give MY views like everyone else has... Please do explain that to me?  And who was I imposing my views on to.. Way I see it is - We are all giving our own views and debating it.. Its how it goes..

Of course you're entitled to give your views. Just don't be surprised if people disagree with the assumptions you make without evidence.

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I wouldn't feel proud of making a bigger deal out of something I do not know the full story of... If we got to read what the employers had to say. .then It would make it more clearer.. All we have read is a ONE sided story...

Maybe you wouldn't be proud of standing up for people. If that is the case, I pity you.

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Yes because if someone feels there has to be more to a story than being fired over a sticker..  is too logical.. that is a NO NO   lol  

See above.

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Why would you say this?  You obviously cut out the tip end of my post.. to twist it to look as though I was insulting.. My FULL sentence was....see below


It means anyone intelligent will agree that a one sided story is not the full story.. there has to be more to it.  We cannot see anything from the employers to that story so it is one sided.... Now please enough with cutting tip bits of a post to twist it.. What I said is true.. And you noted yourself that you only briefly know the story... I was speaking in general.. anyone who understand a one sided story has to have more to it..

So you were saying that anyone who doesn't agree with you is not intelligent. You know I do not agree with you --> You think I am not an intelligent being. That sounds like an insult to me.

Incidentally, I broke it down to address the relevant parts one at a time, not to twist anything. As you can see, I don't need to.

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You are basing all of this on a one sided story.. You do not know what really went on between him and his employers... You do not know all of what what said ect...  

Nor do you. I'm simply trying to go on the information we do have rather than inventing stuff for myself.

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What do you mean if so you are disgusted... What would disgust you?   I said - ..I mean there are always better ways to handle situations we face... You should know this..   <-- what is so disgusting in believing there are always better ways to handle situations in life we face?  If we come up and face a problem, there are ways, better ways for us to handle these problems and it doesn't matter what the problem may be.. we should seek better ways to handle them............ explain to me how saying this is so disgusting?  

Where you say 'you should know that'. It sounds to me like you are referring to the thing I PM'd you about over summer. If so, I find it disgusting that anyone would say there is a right or wrong way to react. If not, then my apologies but, as I'm sure you can imagine, it's kind of top of my mind just now.

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Really?  and yet you post this...


I call that an assumption .. one that you gladly posted

Here's another..



Another one of your own assumptions to what you think he believes

Not really assumptions as they are based on things the article actually says. Your assumption that he believes God will protect him even if he deliberately goes against His wishes, however, has nothing to support it.

[Beckys_Mom]

Setton, on 22 November 2011 - 11:50 PM, said:

Where you say 'you should know that'. It sounds to me like you are referring to the thing I PM'd you about over summer. If so, I find it disgusting that anyone would say there is a right or wrong way to react. If not, then my apologies but, as I'm sure you can imagine, it's kind of top of my mind just now.

Not really assumptions as they are based on things the article actually says. Your assumption that he believes God will protect him even if he deliberately goes against His wishes, however, has nothing to support it.

Setton I would NEVER discuss a private message on a board...Not ever...    I have cut the rest of your post  off because there is really only one point to make -  There has to be two sides of the story regardless and we do not know both sides...  I fail to see how anyone gets fired over a sticker...There has to be more to this.. I am not the only one that thinks so...

Now  as for Christians.. any Christian I have ever met does believe in Jesus protecting them...  You are doubtful of that view.. so be it..I disagree with you completely on that...

Anyhoo.. I am tired and off to lay down.. being pregnant takes it out of me.. it is uncomfortable sitting her for a long time...  So I'm off

[Cassea]

http://en.wikipedia....istian_humanism


Having a small perspective of religious views can get in the way of true understanding.

[Reality2011]

I wonder if the companies employees wore a sticker the next day saying they were 667 days accident free lol.

[ohio state buckeyes]

Ever heard of a vacation day ?  The factory is lame with the sticker thing too. The world keeps getting dumber.
At lest the guy stood up for what he believed.

[Swadwa]

Setton, on 22 November 2011 - 09:17 PM, said:

That'd be an individual decision even then. Why do so many people seem to think Christians are a single entity with some kind of hive-mind that will dictate every detail of what a Christian must believe?

As far as I am concerned, it's all different flavors of ice cream. I just lump them all into one and call them all Christians. Same difference to me.

Edited by Swadwa, 23 November 2011 - 01:32 AM.

[Damian Bâthory]

I think they both overreacted on the issue, there must be more to this story, because as an ex Union leader i have never seen a factory fire an employee on such benigm and stupid reason, the 666 must not be the real reason for the leave of the employee or the factory is ignorant and will obviously pay for it....i have seen in my union leader time a new employee asking to get another employee number because his number was 666, and the factory just shrugged and gave him the number 667.....

[Capt Snowflake]

Wow, even as an atheist I think his employer should have shown a little respect. I've noticed non-Christian faiths in the UK can get away with a lot of things based on their beliefs and traditions but not Christians so much. Too tolerant, Cameron is dangerous.

[JaySleeps]

Beckys_Mom, on 22 November 2011 - 11:08 PM, said:

That is exactly what I have been telling Setton ...There has to be more to it.. We have not read anything from the other side of the fence  ( from employers) ...

He probably ruins everyone lunch break by reading scriptures aloud, carves I <3 Jesus on the bathroom stall, waits for a co-worker to sneeze so he can yell GOD BLESS YOU across the room, throws the office bowl of Halloween candy in the trash when no1 is looking, never works on Sundays or stays late on Wednesdays, etc ...


I think it is perfectly reasonable that he believes that he will go to hell for wearing 666. It is a similar logic which guides me never to let a crucifix touch my skin, lest I burst into flames.

[Michelle]

Swadwa, on 23 November 2011 - 01:23 AM, said:

As far as I am concerned, it's all different flavors of ice cream. I just lump them all into one and call them all Christians. Same difference to me.

Just like all Native Americans are the same and so are their religions?

Edited by Michelle, 23 November 2011 - 05:20 AM.

[Copasetic]

Damian Bâthory, on 23 November 2011 - 03:02 AM, said:

I think they both overreacted on the issue, there must be more to this story, because as an ex Union leader i have never seen a factory fire an employee on such benigm and stupid reason, the 666 must not be the real reason for the leave of the employee or the factory is ignorant and will obviously pay for it....i have seen in my union leader time a new employee asking to get another employee number because his number was 666, and the factory just shrugged and gave him the number 667.....

I agree. Having fired employees, helped get other employees fired and overseen "composite" files on employees, employers have wanted to fire; I think there is more to this case than is being reported--And that is working and living in another "At-Will" employment state.

I suspect that the employer has a list of grievances against said employee. Or else I would not expect them to be hashing it out in court. Rather quickly settling, mitigating the story.

[Rlyeh]

Big Jim, on 22 November 2011 - 09:03 PM, said:

The whole point of having Freedom of Religion guaranteed as a right in the Constitution is so that people do not have to justify their beliefs.  The Founding Fathers rightly recognized that anyone's beliefs may be impossible to defend to non-believers.  So it doesn't matter why the man believed this, or what the "true" number really is.  What matters is that he believed it.  Our laws give him that right.

If your beliefs prevent you from following the boss's orders, you need to be fired.

[Rlyeh]

Mr Right Wing, on 22 November 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

The issue is one of religious freedom.

People dont have the right to impose their views on another individual and thereby violate their religious rights. Also refusing to wear it had no bearing on his ability to do his job.

This is religious discrimination and violation of employment practices.

It wasn't religious discrimination, it was his refusal to follow orders.

[third_eye]

... or also in attempting to impose his version of beliefs on the management, nothing wrong with the sticker, wearing it or not... but rather in his manner of declining to stick to it, he probably cursed the management for making the other employees accept the 'mark' and all the employees who willingly accepted the 'mark' of the 'beast'

I can only imagine his reaction to seeing a whole factory of people working while having the 'number' on everyone and everywhere, poor fella must have been traumatised, probably was expecting to see JC on his white horse come the next dawn.