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the existence of fenix


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#1    aquariusage

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 03:48 PM

maybe mountak monster a griffon ?


#2    vitruvian12

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 03:52 PM

View Postaquariusage, on 26 November 2011 - 03:48 PM, said:

maybe mountak monster a griffon ?
What is the value in speculating an unproven creature is actually an unproven mythical creature?


#3    aquariusage

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 03:54 PM

Phoenix Bird Legend and Physical Description:

The Phoenix Bird myth is in itself exciting and racy. Different legend has it that the phoenix bird lives for about 500 or 1461 years and then builds a nest for itself. The nest is made up of cinnamon twigs. The bird then ignites the nest and itself. The myth so says that a new bird comes out of the ashes of the burnt bird. This bird is destined to live as long as the previous bird. According to some myths, the new Phoenix bird creates an egg out of the ashes of the old Phoenix and stores it in the City of Heliopolis in Egypt.

This myth is routinely used to put an emphasis on afterlife, survival and strength in modern culture and literature. According to other legends, the Phoenix bird also has regenerating capabilities, which makes it almost immortal. It is also the symbol of fire and divinity.

Various legends have a different description of the Phoenix bird. Some legends say that it had a gold and red plumage, while other legends, like the Greeks and the Romans pictured like more on the lines of the eagle or the peacock. The Egyptians described the phoenix bird as a heron or a stork.


the story of the Phoenix as follows: "Most beings spring from other individuals; but there is a certain kind which reproduces itself. The Assyrians call it the Phoenix. It does not live on fruit or flowers, but on frankincense and odoriferous gums. When it has lived five hundred years, it builds itself a nest in the branches of an oak, or on the top of a palm tree. In this it collects cinnamon, and spikenard, and myrrh, and of these 'materials builds a pile on which it deposits itself, and dying, breathes out its last breath amidst odours. From the body of the parent bird, a young Phoenix issues forth, destined to live as long a life as its predecessor. When this has grown up and gained sufficient strength, it lifts its nest from the tree (its own cradle and its parent's sepulchre), and carries it to the city of Heliopolis in Egypt, and deposits it in the temple of the Sun


Such is the account given by a poet. Now let us see that of a philosophic historian. Tacitus says, "in the consulship of Paulus Fabius (A.D. 34) the miraculous bird known to the world by the name of the Phoenix, after disappearing for a series of ages, revisited Egypt. It was attended in its flight by a group of various birds, all attracted by the novelty, and gazing with wonder at so beautiful an appearance." He then gives an account of the bird, not varying materially from the preceding, but adding some details. "The first care of the young bird as soon as fledged, and able to trust to his wings, is to perform the obsequies of his father. But this duty is not undertaken rashly. He collects a quantity of myrrh, and to try his strength makes frequent excursions with a load on his back. When he has gained sufficient confidence in his own vigour, he takes up the body of his father and flies with it to the altar of the Sun, where he leaves it to be consumed in flames of fragrance." Other writers add a few particulars. The myrrh is compacted in the form of an egg, in which the dead Phoenix is enclosed. From the mouldering flesh of the dead bird a worm springs, and this worm, when grown large, is transformed into a bird. Herodotus describes the bird, though he says, "I have not seen it myself, except in a picture. Part of his plumage is gold-coloured, and part crimson; and he is for the most part very much like an eagle in outline and bulk


The first writer who disclaimed a belief in the existence of the Phoenix was Sir Thomas Browne, in his "Vulgar Errors," published in 1646. He was replied to a few years later by Alexander Ross, who says, in answer to the objection of the Phoenix so seldom making his appearance, "His instinct teaches him to keep out of the way of the tyrant of the creation, man, for if he were to be got at, some wealthy glutton would surely devour him, though there were no more in the world


So when the new-born Phoenix first is seen
         Her feathered subjects all adore their queen,
         And while she makes her progress through the East,
         From every grove her numerous train 's increased;
         Each poet of the air her glory sings,
         And round him the pleased audience clap their wings



Down thither, prone in flight
         He speeds, and through the vast ethereal sky
         Sails between worlds and worlds, with steady wing,
         Now on the polar winds, then with quick fan
         Winnows the buxom air; till within soar
         Of towering eagles, to all the fowls he seems
         A Phoenix, gazed by all; as that sole bird
         When, to enshrine his relics in the sun's
         Bright temple, to Egyptian Thebes he flies



#4    aquariusage

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 03:58 PM

she has a resemblance to ancient mythological creatures just making an assumption not assert as a dilemma forced


#5    Abramelin

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 04:00 PM

This may have a relation with what ornitologists call "anting":



Dr. Maurice Burton, a British naturalist, has suggested that this legend may have some basis in fact. He points out that some birds like to play with fire. The British rook is a bird that is a little larger than a crow. When Dr. Burton hands a rook at his nature preserve an unlit match, the rook holds the match so it can peck at it. Once the rook gets the match to light, it quickly puts the burning match under its wing, appearing to want to set itself on fire.

When supplied with straw and a match, the rook will set the straw on fire and then lie, wings outstretched, on the burning straw until the fire goes out. It is possible that in ancient times people saw this behavior and developed the legend of the phoenix to explain what they saw.

Dr. Burton points out that this behavior is common among intelligent birds, such as rooks and jays, who pick up discarded cigarettes that are still burning and fly off with them. It is even likely that this strange behavior is responsible for many house fires.

(Maurice Burton, 1959. "Phoenix Re-born")

Posted Image

Btw, I have the book, which is no suprize to those who know what I am interested in: corvids.


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Edited by Abramelin, 26 November 2011 - 04:06 PM.


#6    Abramelin

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 04:41 PM

Smoke Bathing

Smoke triggers the same odd contorsions as ants do. The same passive /active movements and postures are used. The rook picks up a burning cigarette bud in its beak, goes into a magnificent anting posture and rubs it up and down the inside of its arched wings.
These movements are combined with the "passive " form. The bird simply sits on top of the burning cigarette, with streched wings, thus allowing the smoke to pass through its feathers. This behaviour appears to be more common in corvids than in other birds. In the midle ages, crows, rooks and jackdaws engaged in the same odd behaviour, using not cigarettes, but smoldering embers.They sometimes carried them back to their nest. This is why crows were thoght to be responsible for starting fires. Because of this reason, these birds were known by then as "Aves Incendiaria"(fire birds). While fumigating its feathers, the rook's posture, with wings spread and head turned to one side, resembles the mythical Phoenix, the bird reborn from fire. So it may well be that these birds indulging in pest control spawned the Phoenix legend.


http://www.flickr.co...N07/5103282806/


#7    aquariusage

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 04:57 PM

like a good book but there is no evidence of a mythological being alive today is so circumstantial

it is very complex mode of religion differ so dogmatic beliefs Inspector myths were to highlight some fact occurred as an event of a flood or natural disaster so that the perception was persuaded bearing the fear that can be seen in many ways the reverence the entity to the entity that fear is nothing more than a dearth of scientific evidence based on a egregore He manifested a lot of energy so that the entity is incorporated


#8    Abramelin

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 05:01 PM

View Postaquariusage, on 26 November 2011 - 04:57 PM, said:

like a good book but there is no evidence of a mythological being alive today is so circumstantial

it is very complex mode of religion differ so dogmatic beliefs Inspector myths were to highlight some fact occurred as an event of a flood or natural disaster so that the perception was persuaded bearing the fear that can be seen in many ways the reverence the entity to the entity that fear is nothing more than a dearth of scientific evidence based on a egregore He manifested a lot of energy so that the entity is incorporated

Uhmmmm......  :blink:


Anyway, here's an older, two years old thread about this topic:

http://www.unexplain...dpost&p=3177985


#9    TheBoar

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 05:19 PM

thought i made everyone in the world agree it was a passion bird tht caught on fire then another just flew by


#10    Abramelin

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 05:30 PM

View PostTheBoar, on 26 November 2011 - 05:19 PM, said:

thought i made everyone in the world agree it was a passion bird that caught on fire then another just flew by

Considering what I just posted and the thread I linked to, you should at least start having some doubts, lol.

Rooks, and corvids in general, all use smoke/fire to get rid of their parasites.

They don't do it by accident, they did and have done so on purpose since time immemorial.

Posted Image

Posted Image



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Edited by Abramelin, 26 November 2011 - 05:40 PM.


#11    TheBoar

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 05:51 PM

mainly daytime animals though wouldnt you agree? and stories atleast pre dating the chimneyso i dunno where there would be fire or smoke in the day for them to do it


#12    Abramelin

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 05:58 PM

View PostTheBoar, on 26 November 2011 - 05:51 PM, said:

mainly daytime animals though wouldnt you agree? and stories atleast pre dating the chimneyso i dunno where there would be fire or smoke in the day for them to do it

Like I said, I have that book written by Maurice Burton, and these birds catch burning embers (even from a forest fire) and cigarretes (yep, that's modern), hold them under their wings and bath in the smoke. They do it to get rid of their parasites, but many biologists also think they do it just because they get a kick out of it.

Sometimes they accidentily set fire to their nests or wherever they happen to be perched on.

Chimneys are modern, cigarettes are modern too, but (forest) fires have been around since the earth started forming.

Just look at this picture I posted:

Posted Image

This bird, "Niger", doesn't show any fear at all, it apparently knows what it is doing.

No accident at all.

And because it appears to me people in general have a link-phobia, I will re-post what I posted in that thread I linked to:

In May, 1957, a tame rook named Niger, living in an aviary in my garden at East
Horsley, in Surrey, disported himself on a heap of burning straw. With flames
enveloping the lower part of his body and smoke drifting all around him, he
flapped his wings, snatched at burning embers with his beak and appeared to be
trying to put them under his wings. The sight of this was breathtaking, but
there was still more to come. Every now and then he would pose amid the flames
with his wings outstretched and his head turned to one side, looking exactly
like the traditional picture of the phoenix
.

(Maurice Burton, Phoenix Reborn, London: Hutchinson 1959)

And in case you don't know: corvids (crows, ravens, magpies, jays, jackdaws, nutcrackers) live around the globe.



.

Edited by Abramelin, 26 November 2011 - 06:08 PM.


#13    TheBoar

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 06:08 PM

but a major forest fire happens every 4 years or so plus if u take how many of the birds there are to the possible little forest fires plus them being within the radius to utilise it its all in the categry of right place at right time and as far as i no being a smoker it looses its ember from falling ash in about 1-2 seconds sao the bird must swarm u when it see's it:P just my 2p


#14    Abramelin

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 06:14 PM

View PostTheBoar, on 26 November 2011 - 06:08 PM, said:

but a major forest fire happens every 4 years or so plus if u take how many of the birds there are to the possible little forest fires plus them being within the radius to utilise it its all in the categry of right place at right time and as far as i no being a smoker it looses its ember from falling ash in about 1-2 seconds sao the bird must swarm u when it see's it:P just my 2p

Forest fires... man, where do you live? These corvids actively search for burning embers, or whatever happens to be burning.

I tell you: these birds do search for something burning, giving off smoke, and use whatever they find to get rid of their parasites.

I have seen them do it, you bet I did. I once had tame crows (jackdaws).

I remember I once threw away a cig, and my tame jackdaw hurried to pick it up and put it under its wings.

No doubt about it in my mind: if any bird species is responsible for the Phoenix legends, it is one of the corvid species.


#15    TheBoar

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 06:20 PM

then how come over the millions of years they havnt evolved to do like a controlled spontanious combustion would seem more helpfull :P either way its making an intresting read but what about the species that dont live in countrys with liten forrests or damp climates





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