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Acceleration of Methane release


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#46    Br Cornelius

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 08:09 PM

More details and it seems that the Russian scientists have recorded an acceleration since the 1990's

http://www.independe...omb-938932.html

The potential for methane release from the Arctic tundra is virtually unlimited, so talk of a few million tonnes of methane do not even come close to estimating the true magnitude of the issue.

Br Cornelius

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#47    Doug1o29

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 08:58 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 14 December 2011 - 08:09 PM, said:

More details and it seems that the Russian scientists have recorded an acceleration since the 1990's

http://www.independe...omb-938932.html

The potential for methane release from the Arctic tundra is virtually unlimited, so talk of a few million tonnes of methane do not even come close to estimating the true magnitude of the issue.

Br Cornelius
The methane concentration in the atmosphere leveled off from about 1998 to 2008.  How does this match up with the Russian's numbers?

If the potential is unlimited, then we're not just talking about old soils.  Have there been any surveys?  What other sources have been found?
Doug

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Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
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#48    Cryptozological Mascot

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 09:01 PM

Atlas shrugged and the earth farted.  This'll get nasty...


#49    oly

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 09:11 PM

View PostCryptozological Mascot, on 14 December 2011 - 09:01 PM, said:

Atlas shrugged and the earth farted.  This'll get nasty...
Might even follow through...Then we'll all be in the 5#!+


#50    Br Cornelius

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 09:21 PM

View PostDoug1o29, on 14 December 2011 - 08:58 PM, said:

The methane concentration in the atmosphere leveled off from about 1998 to 2008.  How does this match up with the Russian's numbers?

If the potential is unlimited, then we're not just talking about old soils.  Have there been any surveys?  What other sources have been found?
Doug
The paper will be out soon so we will see. The article suggests a connection to the localised warming that has recently occurred in Siberia.

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#51    liteness

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 06:55 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 14 December 2011 - 09:21 PM, said:

The paper will be out soon so we will see. The article suggests a connection to the localised warming that has recently occurred in Siberia.

Br Cornelius

A connection between warming locally due to methane/co2 concentrations?
I'm no expert, but I was under the belief that greenhouse gases are not able to act as warming agents locally.

http://www.jpl.nasa....elease=2009-196

Edited by liteness, 15 December 2011 - 06:59 AM.


#52    BFB

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:29 AM

View Postliteness, on 15 December 2011 - 06:55 AM, said:

A connection between warming locally due to methane/co2 concentrations?
I'm no expert, but I was under the belief that greenhouse gases are not able to act as warming agents locally.

http://www.jpl.nasa....elease=2009-196


its the other way around. The local warming is the cause.

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#53    liteness

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 11:43 AM

View PostBFB, on 15 December 2011 - 10:29 AM, said:

its the other way around. The local warming is the cause.

Thanks BFB.

Are greenhouses gases moving around in the atmosphere like current? With sink zones and zones with accumulation?
Is there a pattern with this effect? Or is it dynamic?


#54    BFB

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 12:58 PM

View Postliteness, on 15 December 2011 - 11:43 AM, said:

Thanks BFB.

Are greenhouses gases moving around in the atmosphere like current? With sink zones and zones with accumulation?
Is there a pattern with this effect? Or is it dynamic?

Depends which gas you are looking at.

CO2 concentractions only vary around 1% over the surface of the Earth.

"Its not true, until my brain says so" - BFB

#55    PeacefulAnarchy

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 02:49 PM

It was only a few weeks ago that scientists were trying to work out why the methane quantities in the atmosphere were too low.
One reason was due to extensive use of pesticides etc... in Asia.
Now they are going on about this, and flipping cows guffing!

What's happened to all the real scientists?

3 years research to come up with 'Mondays are the gloomiest day of the working week'.


Give me a break!


#56    Br Cornelius

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 04:09 PM

View PostPeacefulAnarchy, on 17 December 2011 - 02:49 PM, said:

It was only a few weeks ago that scientists were trying to work out why the methane quantities in the atmosphere were too low.
One reason was due to extensive use of pesticides etc... in Asia.
Now they are going on about this, and flipping cows guffing!

What's happened to all the real scientists?

3 years research to come up with 'Mondays are the gloomiest day of the working week'.


Give me a break!
This is a specific instance of methane release in the low Arctic due to loss of permafrost.
The two reports can be very much telling the truth at the same time.
If they are reporting lower methane release from the tropic and higher methane releases from the arctic - it would explain why methane levels have remained largely the same.

Science is complex :tu:

Br Cornelius

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Robert Anton Wilson

#57    Little Fish

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 04:21 PM

mars is releasing methane too

http://www.nasa.gov/...arsmethane.html

maybe the martians are burning fossil fuels.


#58    oly

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 04:39 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 17 December 2011 - 04:21 PM, said:

mars is releasing methane too

http://www.nasa.gov/...arsmethane.html

maybe the martians are burning fossil fuels.
No, but they fart


#59    Doug1o29

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 04:50 PM

View PostPeacefulAnarchy, on 17 December 2011 - 02:49 PM, said:

Now they are going on about this, and flipping cows guffing!

Give me a break!
The cow story is hilarious.  It's what happens when politicians try to direct science.

Way back when (70s?) an EPA report included an offhand remark that methane levels were rising and that cows might be the source.  It was meant as a joke, but:

One of the "environmental" organizations (Friends of the Earth?  Sierra Club?) picked up on it and sued the EPA for not investigating.  Because a study was cheaper than paying off the lawsuit, EPA awarded some grants for experiments which led to cows wearing these backpacks with electronics designed to measure their "emissions."  The study concluded that the cows' contribution to methane levels was negligible, but that only convinced the "environmentalists" that EPA was sweeping something under the rug.  The resulting outcry forced EPA to issue more grants for additional experiments, which showed a slightly higher level of "emissions."  That resulted in another outcry, this time from the agricultural sector, so EPA issued another set of grants.  This time the results confirmed the original study.  The entire process lasted about ten years and people still can't just let it die.  Those poor cows!

If scientists had been making the decisions, the first study might not have been done at all and none of the followups would have.  The money would have been spent on science instead of politics.

It doesn't matter whether the nut cases are "environmentalists" or "global warming deniers," the results are the same:  money and time are diverted from urgently-needed research.

At any rate, EPA is a lot more careful about what it puts its name on.
Doug

If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott




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