1163 replies to this topic

[oly]

Dougal, on 20 December 2011 - 11:45 AM, said:

And that "evidence" is fine for you, but I'm not going to start believing that man made cloud cover is going on and has been for years based on your observations which I can't verify at all. Sorry!

Did you see pic in 1st post?
How many "contrails"? It's all "contrail". How is that not man made cloud?

[oly]

Dougal, on 20 December 2011 - 11:49 AM, said:

Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

So you're suggesting that planes (all planes or just specific ones?) are releasing chemicals, and that neither the chemicals released nor the reason for their release is what has been released to the public?

Just trying to find out exactly what stance each person is taking here

Yes. Not all planes. Yes.

[Dougal]

oly, on 20 December 2011 - 11:55 AM, said:

Yes. Not all planes. Yes.

Ok

With regards to the first photo, yes I saw it, however it didn't look particularly remarkable to me, nor would I accept that as evidence of chemtrails, the pattern may be a bit wierd but even if we accept that the pattern flown is unusual, it still doesn't mean chemtrails are the reason for that particular pattern being flown.

[Timonthy]

If this was being taken seriously then wouldn't there be time lapses and people taking video of the phenomena? If there is then why hasn't it been posted?

I know if I believed something strongly enough and people were trying to disprove me I would seek evidence, especially if it were as simple a pointing a video camera or webcam at the sky...

Anyone out there willing to come through with the goods?

[oly]

Timonthy, on 20 December 2011 - 12:01 PM, said:

If this was being taken seriously then wouldn't there be time lapses and people taking video of the phenomena? If there is then why hasn't it been posted?

I know if I believed something strongly enough and people were trying to disprove me I would seek evidence, especially if it were as simple a pointing a video camera or webcam at the sky...

Anyone out there willing to come through with the goods?

Typed "chemtrail timelapse" in youtube? Plenty there

[Little Fish]

Dougal, on 20 December 2011 - 11:35 AM, said:

I'd not however go so far as to say "they're secretly cloud seeding"

have you written to your MP or DEFRA about it? do you have any response that indicates it is not secret? that its not cloud seeding? in other words do you have any evidence for what you are saying, or is it just your belief that secret cloud seeding would not be done.

Quote

or "the chemicals they're spraying are detrimental to the health of the public"

how do you know its not detrimental? you don't know what chemicals are being used. it will inevitably be washed down into your drinking water by the rain, is it safe to drink? will there be local hot spot concentrations? the video I posted early on in this thread, the geoengineer was asked whether it was safe for human health and the water and eco systems, he replied that an initial study suggested it was safe for human health.
"Q. did you abuse any boys or girls?"
"A: I did not abuse any girls"
so even the geoengineer is unable to state clearly that what he is doing is safe.

[Little Fish]

Timonthy, on 20 December 2011 - 12:01 PM, said:

If this was being taken seriously then wouldn't there be time lapses and people taking video of the phenomena? If there is then why hasn't it been posted?

yes there are plenty.
go to youtube and type "timelapse chemtrails"

@oly, edit - spooky!

Edited by Little Fish, 20 December 2011 - 12:10 PM.

[Timonthy]

oly, on 20 December 2011 - 12:07 PM, said:

Typed "chemtrail timelapse" in youtube? Plenty there

I've watched videos of plenty of formations, clearly contrails or natural. A thick contrail is still a contrail. A slow dispersing contrail is still a contrail. If it's windy on the ground yet a contrail stays stationary then it just means whatever height it's at has no current winds.

Can you please post links to the videos you think are the most compelling? I'll try and offer my opinions and explanations as best I can.

Thanks.

[BFB]

Little Fish, on 20 December 2011 - 11:36 AM, said:

at 4,000 feet on a warm summers day? low level clouds never formed from aircraft before at 4,000 feet, only high altitude where the contrails freeze at around 30,000 feet. I'm not talking arctic winds here, this is on a warm summers day. this is why I am saying some material is dispersed to produce man made clouds whether directly or indirectly to condense atmospheric water vapor.

You saw a contrail at 4000 feet on a very hot day?? Was it over 30c? If so very strange but not impossible.

btw the average height for water vapor to freeze is not 30.000 feet is around 2-3 km.

[BFB]

oly, on 20 December 2011 - 11:14 AM, said:

Eh? So when you boil a kettle, your kitchen is full of steam for 10 days?

No not if its in you kitchen.

But next time its below minus degrees outside, try to boil a kettle then go outside were there is no wind and see how long the water vapor last.

Also another fun thing to do(at least for kids), when its about -10C or colder outside. Take a glass of water throw it up in the air and it will come down as snow. Showed my nephew this yesterday and he couldn't get enough.

[oly]

BFB, on 20 December 2011 - 12:46 PM, said:

No not if its in you kitchen.

But next time its below minus degrees outside, try to boil a kettle then go outside were there is no wind and see how long the water vapor last.

Also another fun thing to do(at least for kids), when its about -10C or colder outside. Take a glass of water throw it up in the air and it will come down as snow. Showed my nephew this yesterday and he couldn't get enough.

So why not more trails in cold weather? & why planes with no trail at sub zero?
Thanks for snow trick, I'll try it when -10. Does it work with pee?

Edited by oly, 20 December 2011 - 01:12 PM.

[frenat]

Little Fish, on 20 December 2011 - 11:36 AM, said:

at 4,000 feet on a warm summers day? low level clouds never formed from aircraft before at 4,000 feet, only high altitude where the contrails freeze at around 30,000 feet. I'm not talking arctic winds here, this is on a warm summers day. this is why I am saying some material is dispersed to produce man made clouds whether directly or indirectly to condense atmospheric water vapor.

my evidence and reference point is what I have observed, not something I saw on the internet, the patterns and observations of the planes as well as the effects they produce is not normal.

I have yet to see any evidence for persistent trails at 4,000 feet.  The previously posted video certainly did not show that.

[Little Fish]

BFB, on 20 December 2011 - 12:35 PM, said:

You saw a contrail at 4000 feet on a very hot day?? Was it over 30c? If so very strange but not impossible.

yes many times during summer months, it was clearly less than a mile away since i could make out detail on the plane (no way to make out detail at contrail altitudes), very thick trail almost like smoke, fans out to form a cloud eventually turning the sky white and hazy. possibly 30C, maybe 25C, but a hot summers day, had relatives with me so I do not misremember the conversations, nor misremember the time and dates. had it independently confirmed by others who reported the same unusual thing from other locations (with no prompting from me), seen it on many occasions. you can say its possible, but what I saw is not possible in my opinion without some out of the ordinary means. I have never seen anything like that, then suddenly after decades of not seeing anything like it they start appearing and everyone I know notices. so something changed. couple that with aircraft observations, flying from horizon to horizon and back again leaving these thick trails, aircraft travelling in pairs one behind the other, low altitude, off known flight routes (when you live under a flight route near an airport you know the routes), the set times these trailers appear, always in front of the sun, their unsual landing sequence low over me, their unsual (non commercial) appearance, etc, etc. these are my own observations.

Quote

btw the average height for water vapor to freeze is not 30.000 feet is around 2-3 km.

25-30,000 feet is the often reported height for visible contrail formation.

[BFB]

oly, on 20 December 2011 - 12:51 PM, said:

So why not more trails in cold weather? & why planes with no trail at sub zero?

You would see more contrails in a colder environment. I live close to father christmas and i do rarely see a plane pass by without a contrail. Remember contrails are frozen water vapor.

oly, on 20 December 2011 - 12:51 PM, said:

Thanks for snow trick, I'll try it when -10. Does it work with pee?

Wouldn't think it would work. But please record it on video when you try and post it.

[BFB]

Little Fish, on 20 December 2011 - 01:43 PM, said:

yes many times during summer months, it was clearly less than a mile away since i could make out detail on the plane (no way to make out detail at contrail altitudes), very thick trail almost like smoke, fans out to form a cloud eventually turning the sky white and hazy. possibly 30C, maybe 25C, but a hot summers day, had relatives with me so I do not misremember the conversations, nor misremember the time and dates. had it independently confirmed by others who reported the same unusual thing from other locations (with no prompting from me), seen it on many occasions. you can say its possible, but what I saw is not possible in my opinion without some out of the ordinary means. I have never seen anything like that, then suddenly after decades of not seeing anything like it they start appearing and everyone I know notices. so something changed. couple that with aircraft observations, flying from horizon to horizon and back again leaving these thick trails, aircraft travelling in pairs one behind the other, low altitude, off known flight routes (when you live under a flight route near an airport you know the routes), the set times these trailers appear, always in front of the sun, their unsual landing sequence low over me, their unsual (non commercial) appearance, etc, etc. these are my own observations.

Sounds like you might have been witnessing a research program? Especially when you say they fly in pairs. Could either be a by public scientists or the military scientists. Try calling the universities around you, if its military planes then call the nearby military bases and ask them. In the US they HAVE to answer if the are conducting any experiments. Given the mass hysteria under operation dew and operation lac back in the 50's. Dont know if UK military has to answer, but no harm in trying.

Little Fish, on 20 December 2011 - 01:43 PM, said:

25-30,000 feet is the often reported height for visible contrail formation.

Who says that?

Edited by BFB, 20 December 2011 - 02:07 PM.