174 replies to this topic

[acidhead]

Br Cornelius, on 24 December 2011 - 08:33 AM, said:

Why make that point when I have clearly expressed my position against communism, as much as I am against capitalism.

Capitalism is in crisis - just as communism was in crisis in the 1980's. It is not fit for purpose and will collapse under its own internal contradictions.

As for the comment made that this is not capitalism - well it is - capitalism has always brought us to crisis and will always bring you to what we have now. The idea of perfect capitalism is as bogus as the idea of perfect communism or perfect Islam or Christianity, They are all utopian dreams.

We don't need utopian dreams - we need a system which looks at needs and addresses them. Leave the ideologies with the messiahs where they belong.

Br Cornelius

No offense BR but we've beat this circle jerk before(around last year to be exact) Greed exists in every single person, even you my humanitarian minded friend.  There is absolutely no doubt about it.  The trick is to harness this greed and create a system where it's best utilized and it's already been accomplished with the free market capitalism system.  While you denounce greed and the pure free market capitalism system as utopian dreams and a path way to collapse you need to understand that the grave reality of the situation is that you cannot control it.  This is your fear and this is your need to express a system change to society.  Control is another word for greed and fear is is what drives it.  Those who advocate changes to the current free market system are just as greedy as the oil baron who controls a part of the energy market.  The trick comes into play by using this market system to push forward everyday acknowledging in the fact that eventually we will all perish into history.  If this is the majority of ours future reality your energy would be better invested in living in the now and confronting the problems in the current system who would use mechanisms to cheat it for their own personal gain as opposed to declaring that the system needs to be scraped.  This only plays into the palms of those who want to control everybody and they relish in the fact that people like yourself are more than willing to do their personal relations work for them.

[Br Cornelius]

acidhead, on 24 December 2011 - 07:53 PM, said:

No offense BR but we've beat this circle jerk before(around last year to be exact) Greed exists in every single person, even you my humanitarian minded friend.  There is absolutely no doubt about it.  The trick is to harness this greed and create a system where it's best utilized and it's already been accomplished with the free market capitalism system.  While you denounce greed and the pure free market capitalism system as utopian dreams and a path way to collapse you need to understand that the grave reality of the situation is that you cannot control it.  This is your fear and this is your need to express a system change to society.  Control is another word for greed and fear is is what drives it.  Those who advocate changes to the current free market system are just as greedy as the oil baron who controls a part of the energy market.  The trick comes into play by using this market system to push forward everyday acknowledging in the fact that eventually we will all perish into history.  If this is the majority of ours future reality your energy would be better invested in living in the now and confronting the problems in the current system who would use mechanisms to cheat it for their own personal gain as opposed to declaring that the system needs to be scraped.  This only plays into the palms of those who want to control everybody and they relish in the fact that people like yourself are more than willing to do their personal relations work for them.

I fundamentally disagree. Humanity is better than this and there are other systems which work. Capitalism is not the best of a bad bunch, it is the virus that ruins the good and it cannot be harnessed for good. We need something better - and something better is possible.

It is not fear that drives people to seek better - it is optimism in the human spirit.



Br Cornelius

[Caesar]

Br Cornelius, on 25 December 2011 - 01:39 PM, said:

I fundamentally disagree. Humanity is better than this and there are other systems which work. Capitalism is not the best of a bad bunch, it is the virus that ruins the good and it cannot be harnessed for good. We need something better - and something better is possible.

It is not fear that drives people to seek better - it is optimism in the human spirit.



Br Cornelius

Capitalism works fine it has brought America to the top, economic and military power in the world, it doesn't work when you add a little socialism into the mix. I think if the government just focused on the military and the law, there would be less problems then there is now. I also think its become so politically correct on both sides rather then doing it for the country and its people.


JMHO!

[WoIverine]

Capitalism caused the collapse? Uh, yeah, sure. Can I get some of what you've been smoking?

[MichaelW]

Br Cornelius, on 25 December 2011 - 01:39 PM, said:

I fundamentally disagree. Humanity is better than this and there are other systems which work. Capitalism is not the best of a bad bunch, it is the virus that ruins the good and it cannot be harnessed for good. We need something better - and something better is possible.

It is not fear that drives people to seek better - it is optimism in the human spirit.



Br Cornelius

This is the sort of utopia that you think is impossible. To think that humanity can abandon its natural drive to achieve individual success as the expense of others is idiotic. Everyone knows this. Greed and charity are mutual. One cannot exist without the other.

[MichaelW]

Caesar, on 25 December 2011 - 11:48 PM, said:

Capitalism works fine it has brought America to the top, economic and military power in the world, it doesn't work when you add a little socialism into the mix. I think if the government just focused on the military and the law, there would be less problems then there is now. I also think its become so politically correct on both sides rather then doing it for the country and its people.


JMHO!

New Zealand would disagree. A welfare state coupled with a laissez-faire business attitude works incredibly well, as we do well in virtually all the global rankings.

[Caesar]

MichaelW, on 26 December 2011 - 01:38 AM, said:

New Zealand would disagree. A welfare state coupled with a laissez-faire business attitude works incredibly well, as we do well in virtually all the global rankings.

New Zealand is so small compared to other nations around the world, GDP, population ect

[MichaelW]

Caesar, on 26 December 2011 - 02:21 AM, said:

New Zealand is so small compared to other nations around the world, GDP, population ect

Which is why it is even more astonishing that we outrank much, much larger countries. In education ranking, for instance, New Zealand is ranked 4th in the world. We are outdone only by Australia, Finland and Denmark. To put that into comparision, Australia has 22 million people. Finland has around 7 million and Denmark has around 5 million. Not bat for a "tiny little country".

The US, comparitively, comes 20th.

[Br Cornelius]

Caesar, on 25 December 2011 - 11:48 PM, said:

Capitalism works fine it has brought America to the top, economic and military power in the world, it doesn't work when you add a little socialism into the mix. I think if the government just focused on the military and the law, there would be less problems then there is now. I also think its become so politically correct on both sides rather then doing it for the country and its people.


JMHO!

America has stopped been a functional country decades ago. If it wasn't been propped up by communist China and Japan it would have folded a long time ago. Overspending on the military and not investing in infrastructure. The Dollar is only the reserve currency because everyone is terrified of the consequences of letting it die of natural causes.
It a country with more people disposed by the capitalist dream going sour on them than anywhere since the collapse of the soviet union.
Watch this space for the inevitable rise of the Corporate fascist superstate - when public discontent finally boils over.

Keep on living the American dream, fantasy is all you have left.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 26 December 2011 - 12:02 PM.

[Br Cornelius]

Of course let us not forget the fate of countries which threaten to call the Dollars bluff;
-Iraq - invaded
-Libya - invaded
Coincidence?

Use our currency/buy our bonds - or else. It starts to look obvious why America spends most of its budget on the military.

Br Cornelius

[Mr Right Wing]

MichaelW, on 26 December 2011 - 05:30 AM, said:

Which is why it is even more astonishing that we outrank much, much larger countries. In education ranking, for instance, New Zealand is ranked 4th in the world. We are outdone only by Australia, Finland and Denmark. To put that into comparision, Australia has 22 million people. Finland has around 7 million and Denmark has around 5 million. Not bat for a "tiny little country".

The US, comparitively, comes 20th.

If I ever saw delusions of grandeur this was it lol.

New Zealand GDP is less than £100 billion, its a tiny insignificant country. Its human development level is 5th which is what I think you're getting confused over. HDL means hospitals, schools, infrastructure. It isnt wealth or power.

Socialism is bad in all its forms.

[Mr Right Wing]

Caesar, on 25 December 2011 - 11:48 PM, said:

Capitalism works fine it has brought America to the top, economic and military power in the world, it doesn't work when you add a little socialism into the mix. I think if the government just focused on the military and the law, there would be less problems then there is now. I also think its become so politically correct on both sides rather then doing it for the country and its people.


JMHO!

Can I add the Government should focus on the military and law then privitise the rest of the state.

Also the internet allows True Democracy so huge sways of decision making could be delegated back to the people.

[Br Cornelius]

Mr Right Wing, on 26 December 2011 - 02:07 PM, said:

If I ever saw delusions of grandeur this was it lol.

New Zealand GDP is less than £100 billion, its a tiny insignificant country. Its human development level is 5th which is what I think you're getting confused over. HDL means hospitals, schools, infrastructure. It isnt wealth or power.

Socialism is bad in all its forms.

Such ideologically driven dogmatism is why the US is in such a mess.

Br Cornelius

[Mr Right Wing]

Br Cornelius, on 26 December 2011 - 02:14 PM, said:

Such ideologically driven dogmatism is why the US is in such a mess.

Br Cornelius

No it isnt we arent living in 1950's - 80's USA when Capitialism was in full swing.

Modern USA is socialist which is why they have problems. Paying for all the fancy little thinks like health, benefits, education and minimum wage drives up taxes stopping the US from competiting with the Chinese and other countries.

I hate education most of all. How many American workers make use of high school education? How many actually get to put their college or university education to use? The education system is vastly inefficent. The Government should place limits on who can study each course and select the best for them. The rest should be turned out from school at 12 and have to join the work force.

The savings off that would eliminate income tax and reduce corporation tax. Socialist lovers pay for their nonsense by having more of their income taken away for their inefficent dreams. The problem is their me, me, me attitude where they think everything is theirs by birth right.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 26 December 2011 - 02:43 PM.

[The New Richard Nixon]

Mr Right Wing, on 26 December 2011 - 02:42 PM, said:

No it isnt we arent living in 1950's - 80's USA when Capitialism was in full swing.

Modern USA is socialist which is why they have problems. Paying for all the fancy little thinks like health, benefits, education and minimum wage drives up taxes stopping the US from competiting with the Chinese and other countries.

I hate education most of all. How many American workers make use of high school education? How many actually get to put their college or university education to use? The education system is vastly inefficent. The Government should place limits on who can study each course and select the best for them. The rest should be turned out from school at 12 and have to join the work force.

The savings off that would eliminate income tax and reduce corporation tax. Socialist lovers pay for their nonsense by having more of their income taken away for their inefficent dreams. The problem is their me, me, me attitude where they think everything is theirs by birth right.

What do you like?