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Evolution of Angels


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#1    Still Waters

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 09:36 PM

news.nationalgeographic.com said:

'Tis the season for winged humanoids to alight everywhere from store windows to Christmas tree tops to lingerie runways. But it wasn't always so.

Angels, at least the Christian variety, haven't always been flying people in diaphanous gowns. And their various forms—from disembodied minds to feathered guardians—reflect twists and turns of thousands of years of religious thought, according to an upcoming book.

"There is lots of interesting theology about angels, and in some ways we've kind of lost the knack for that," said John Cavadini, chair of theology at the University of Notre Dame.

"We tend to think of angels as things that we'd find in a Hallmark card," Cavadini added. "But many people, especially in antiquity, were very interested in them"—in what they might look like, how they might organize themselves, how they behave.

In the Bible angels served as envoys of God—angelos being Greek for "messenger." Other than that, the scriptures leave a lot of room for interpretation.

"There isn't a lot of detail, and that's the fascinating thing," said Ellen Muehlberger, a professor of Middle Eastern studies at the University of Michigan.

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#2    StarChild 83

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 10:16 PM

Isn't there a class of angels that have the body of a lion type animal with wings and a human head. and then some like a half horse half human. or maybe i just read some weird books. either way there are old paintings and statues of what im talking about.

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#3    granpa

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 02:23 AM

the evolution of angels is a genuinely fascinating subject.
it is a shame that nobody takes it seriously.

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And no one is forcing you to eat it. If you dont want it then dont eat it.

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#4    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 07:23 AM

View PostStarChild 83, on 25 December 2011 - 10:16 PM, said:

Isn't there a class of angels that have the body of a lion type animal with wings and a human head. and then some like a half horse half human. or maybe i just read some weird books. either way there are old paintings and statues of what im talking about.
Four heads if you're talking about the Messenger of God I'm thinking you are - Horse, Lion, Goat, Man (IIRC) and at least three sets of wings.

This might just be added to me grumpy old man status, but I don't like this belief in Angels as being all glowing and human-y. I like the idea of Angels being incomprehensible and unsettling and alien (but not Alien alien - just totally different to us alien). All these people saying "I've met Angels" or "I want to meet Angels" kind of don't know their Bible, Angels are scary even if they appear human they inherently scare people (look at the story of Lot, those ARE angels who look human. Give me the lion-faced ones personally).


#5    Mr Walker

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 09:05 AM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 26 December 2011 - 07:23 AM, said:

Four heads if you're talking about the Messenger of God I'm thinking you are - Horse, Lion, Goat, Man (IIRC) and at least three sets of wings.

This might just be added to me grumpy old man status, but I don't like this belief in Angels as being all glowing and human-y. I like the idea of Angels being incomprehensible and unsettling and alien (but not Alien alien - just totally different to us alien). All these people saying "I've met Angels" or "I want to meet Angels" kind of don't know their Bible, Angels are scary even if they appear human they inherently scare people (look at the story of Lot, those ARE angels who look human. Give me the lion-faced ones personally).
Angels are what they are. Basically they are messengers, and thus take the form most likely to result in the message being heard and obeyed. Im not sure what you mean about people who say they've met angels. I ve never met a person who said their angel looked like one of those flying winged creatures.(and i know quite a few pole who do bleiev they have encounteed and been protected by angels) The two most common forms of appearance angels take are beings of light and human But they can asume any form at all Another very common form is invisible but powerful  I know one peraon who was spoken to by an invisible entity which also poked him in the chest with enough force to knock him backwards, whil e speaking to him (just like you or i might do if really trying to get a pint across)
The angkes message was "do not be afraid for i am with you and n harm will come to you" this bloke was in ward 5 Royal adelaide hospital, facing a triple by pass. I met one of my angels in the same ward a year later facing exactly the same operation He came as a very handsome young man in a very nice suit  The hospital had a policy a tthe time of not providing bibles and i was missing my own.  He delivered a bible to me which opened to thie exact same messge . he walked out onto my private balcony 5 floors above the ground and disappeared. A few minutes laer a number of nurses came in asking where "that good looking bloke' had gone.

Four years later this stranger came up to me in the street and said "god told me to tell you what happened to me " and proceeded to recount his own experience with an angel in ward 5. a year before my own. (as above) I was floored. It was enough to have my own visitation, but for another to have a very similar one  and be instructed to tell me about it, was actually almmost incredible. I think god was pointing out, first that i am not special or unique and second, reassuring me that my experience was real

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With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

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#6    spud the mackem

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 05:03 PM

Humans have a limited capacity of sight,hearing,smell,in comparison with other species,so how have we survived ?,when other species don't ? perhaps Angels guard us !


#7    DieChecker

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 07:54 PM

View PostStarChild 83, on 25 December 2011 - 10:16 PM, said:

Isn't there a class of angels that have the body of a lion type animal with wings and a human head. and then some like a half horse half human. or maybe i just read some weird books. either way there are old paintings and statues of what im talking about.
That sounds more like mythical Greek creatures... like Centaurs and Sphinxes

View PostWearer of Hats, on 26 December 2011 - 07:23 AM, said:

Four heads if you're talking about the Messenger of God I'm thinking you are - Horse, Lion, Goat, Man (IIRC) and at least three sets of wings.

This might just be added to me grumpy old man status, but I don't like this belief in Angels as being all glowing and human-y. I like the idea of Angels being incomprehensible and unsettling and alien (but not Alien alien - just totally different to us alien). All these people saying "I've met Angels" or "I want to meet Angels" kind of don't know their Bible, Angels are scary even if they appear human they inherently scare people (look at the story of Lot, those ARE angels who look human. Give me the lion-faced ones personally).
I thought the faces of the Seriphim were... Lion, Ox, Eagle and Human. And they supposedly have 8 wings.

I tend to agree that a Human form is the most common Angelic form. Clearly they can appear in whatever form they like, and are spiritual/energy in nature, not physical.

Talking with my Father in Law (a Protestant(Baptist) Pastor), he asked if I knew where the "female" angels had come from, as all angels in the Bible are male in appearance. We have a tremendous giant female type angel on top of the family Christmas tree. But, I did not know and neither did he.

Edited by DieChecker, 26 December 2011 - 07:55 PM.

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#8    Psycho78

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 09:04 PM

I have had a large number of paranormal experiences in my life, many of them could be interpreted as angel visitations, if one were beholden to such a belief system. I remain unconvinced of anything specific enough to proclaim any facts about the subject, but one story I can relay that falls squarely within this topic is as follows...

About 9 years ago, I was riding my bicycle home from work, it was about 10:00pm. I made a stupid decision and rode my bike down a steep path that connects a major road to another, which passes underneath it. The road underneath is the back end of a residential neighborhood and rarely has any cars on it. Just as I approached the bottom of the path, which opens up directly onto the under passing road, a car came speeding out of nowhere, it must have been going 60+ MPH. I did the only thing I could, hit both brakes which sent me flying over the handlebars, due to my descending angle. I saw the headlights of the car pass in front of my face in slow motion, they seemed to be literally 1" away from my eyes. The next thing I know, I hit the ground, and expected the rather heavy mountain bike to land on top of me, but it bounced harmlessly to the side. I was completely uninjured, and perhaps even more shocking, the bike did not even get a scratch. From my point of view I was going to hit the road just in time to be in front of the car, and then, as close as my face was to the car as it passed, it seems strange that I didn't hit the side of the car with my face. Immediately after the incident, continuing my long ride home, I found myself more concerned with what kind of force could have possibly intervened, than contemplating the details of the near accident, which would have been my typical reaction.

Come to think of it, narrowly avoiding certain death or extreme injury has happened to me many times, but this was the only one in which some sort of paranormal intervention seemed obvious.

Why then are people killed in accidents everyday? Who can say?

I'm starting to suspect that I may be experiencing some kind of UFO abduction, though I have no abduction type memories or symptoms. What makes me say this is that, on a number of occasions, when I have seen UFOs, returning to the location where I saw them, I find that, often I can not see the same place in the sky from where I was standing at that moment. In most cases, I would have had to be standing the equivalent of one or two floors higher. And in one case, the entire layout of the area turned out be different than what I remembered. Normally, finding that things aren't exactly as you remember them might not seem out of place, but in this case, I actually walked through this landscape that doesn't exist in reality, trying to get a better view of a UFO that had disappeared behind a tall building downtown. When I returned to the location, across the street from my GFs house, I found that I could not follow the same path because the arrangement of the buildings on that block was completely different. Which leads me to ask, has anyone ever heard of abductions that occur without missing time? In other words, they were taken and returned back to the same moment in time? It kind of makes sense that if one were to have a memory implanted that conceals something shocking, it would be replaced with something shocking.

Edited by Psycho78, 26 December 2011 - 09:07 PM.


#9    greywolf

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 12:19 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 26 December 2011 - 09:05 AM, said:

Angels are what they are. Basically they are messengers, and thus take the form most likely to result in the message being heard and obeyed. Im not sure what you mean about people who say they've met angels. I ve never met a person who said their angel looked like one of those flying winged creatures.(and i know quite a few pole who do bleiev they have encounteed and been protected by angels) The two most common forms of appearance angels take are beings of light and human But they can asume any form at all Another very common form is invisible but powerful  I know one peraon who was spoken to by an invisible entity which also poked him in the chest with enough force to knock him backwards, whil e speaking to him (just like you or i might do if really trying to get a pint across)
The angkes message was "do not be afraid for i am with you and n harm will come to you" this bloke was in ward 5 Royal adelaide hospital, facing a triple by pass. I met one of my angels in the same ward a year later facing exactly the same operation He came as a very handsome young man in a very nice suit  The hospital had a policy a tthe time of not providing bibles and i was missing my own.  He delivered a bible to me which opened to thie exact same messge . he walked out onto my private balcony 5 floors above the ground and disappeared. A few minutes laer a number of nurses came in asking where "that good looking bloke' had gone.

Four years later this stranger came up to me in the street and said "god told me to tell you what happened to me " and proceeded to recount his own experience with an angel in ward 5. a year before my own. (as above) I was floored. It was enough to have my own visitation, but for another to have a very similar one  and be instructed to tell me about it, was actually almmost incredible. I think god was pointing out, first that i am not special or unique and second, reassuring me that my experience was real
I think your description of what angels are is as close to the truth as we can get.they were made by God to serve him in many different aspects.they are his messengers on earth among other things.the bible list several different "classes of angels" each with their own jobs to do.i would be scared to death if an angel just materialized in front of me! but they have more subtle ways of contacting us.very good knowledgeable post.  :cat:


#10    Timonthy

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 01:04 AM

Calling them beings is a little forward...


#11    papadad

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 01:09 AM

When I was about 7 or 8,I was at the top of a stairway that went down to our living room.I can remember tripping somehow and knowing I was gonna fall down the stairs.I dont know what happened next as I was sitting there at the bottom,kinda bewildered,like what just happened?There wasnt a scratch or any sore spots or anything on me.It was like a magical ride down at the  time,but it did happen I knew and it would be best to remain my little secret.Didnt wanna get in trouble for being careless and stupid.

Bottom line to me is that I cant say for sure it was a guardian angel,but that,plus about a half dozen strange coincidences in my life,have proven to me that something does intervene once in awhile !


#12    Timonthy

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 02:23 AM

View Postpapadad, on 27 December 2011 - 01:09 AM, said:

When I was about 7 or 8,I was at the top of a stairway that went down to our living room.I can remember tripping somehow and knowing I was gonna fall down the stairs.I dont know what happened next as I was sitting there at the bottom,kinda bewildered,like what just happened?There wasnt a scratch or any sore spots or anything on me.It was like a magical ride down at the  time,but it did happen I knew and it would be best to remain my little secret.Didnt wanna get in trouble for being careless and stupid.

Bottom line to me is that I cant say for sure it was a guardian angel,but that,plus about a half dozen strange coincidences in my life,have proven to me that something does intervene once in awhile !
In this instance though the possibility does remain that you had a lucky fall and weren't injured at all. Also IMO this is a much more likely explanation. Not that I claim to know anything definitively. I'm glad that 'you cant say for sure' because many people claim divine intervention too often.

I've been in much more dramatic situations many times and walked away without a scratch or bruise.

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#13    Timonthy

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 02:24 AM

View Postpapadad, on 27 December 2011 - 01:09 AM, said:

When I was about 7 or 8,I was at the top of a stairway that went down to our living room.I can remember tripping somehow and knowing I was gonna fall down the stairs.I dont know what happened next as I was sitting there at the bottom,kinda bewildered,like what just happened?There wasnt a scratch or any sore spots or anything on me.It was like a magical ride down at the  time,but it did happen I knew and it would be best to remain my little secret.Didnt wanna get in trouble for being careless and stupid.

Bottom line to me is that I cant say for sure it was a guardian angel,but that,plus about a half dozen strange coincidences in my life,have proven to me that something does intervene once in awhile !
In this instance though the possibility does remain that you had a lucky fall and weren't injured at all. Also IMO this is a much more likely explanation. Not that I claim to know anything definitively. I'm glad that 'you cant say for sure' because many people claim divine intervention too often.

I've been in much more dramatic situations many times and walked away without a scratch or bruise.

Edited by Timonthy, 27 December 2011 - 02:26 AM.

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#14    Mr Walker

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 02:33 AM

View PostTimonthy, on 27 December 2011 - 01:04 AM, said:

Calling them beings is a little forward...
why?
They are sapient, self willed, in control of their own actions,  able to communicate with humans  able to manipulate their environment as humans do, and existing in both energy and material form. What else would one call them.
Do you have a theological problem based, perhaps, on respect for the ideal of an angel, which makes calling them a "being" somewhat belittling to them in your view?

Bt then again, I call god mate, as often as father or god,  because that's what he is, in his relationship to me.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#15    Swadwa

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 04:00 AM

Of course I didn't read the article thoroughly - who would want too (B.S) but I didn't see it mention the angels of the Old Testament as being described as hideous creatures. – I guess not surprising when most pictures of the imaginary saviour is a white guy with blonde hair.





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