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Hitler Surviving the War


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#1    Coyote Speaks

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 03:34 PM

I did use the search function prior to posting this - just putting that out there, as I fear that this has been discussed a few times in the past.  I've seen several threads purporting that Hitler survived the war, but these threads tended to be in response to new books being published (one regarding Hitler in Argentina, another more basic one about Hitler just surviving the war.)  

I caught a rerun of a show on the *cough* History *cough* channel discussing this topic recently.  It trotted out the same facts that we've probably heard before:

  • The photo of Hitler's corpse passed around was a body double
  • No country could verify Hitler's death for some time
  • The skull fragments that Russia has are that of a young woman
  • South America was a haven for Nazi sympathizers after the war
  • Hitler's last actions weren't that of a man facing certain death

Essentially, this theory says that Hitler lived to a ripe old age after escaping the fall of Berlin.  Some say he had two daughters, etc. etc.  

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are on this topic, whether or not they have more information to share, etc.  I am learning more towards this discussion revolving around speculation and a genuine Alternative History view rather than just outright "this is ridiculous and couldn't happen." I realize this theory isn't one of the more plausible ones, but am curious as to what people will come up with.

Cheers!


#2    Eldorado

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 03:46 PM

If he did survive the fall of Berlin, the Soviets would have tracked him to the ends of the earth and done him in.

He was visibly ill the last he was seen in public so I doubt he lived to a ripe old age and anyway, the members of his personal staff who survived all told the same story of his final days.

Edited by Eldorado, 13 January 2012 - 03:49 PM.


#3    Abramelin

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 03:49 PM

I also saw in a documentary that they compared the teeth of an upper or lower jaw to still existing dental records owned by Hitler's dentist, and they matched.


#4    Coyote Speaks

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 04:11 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 13 January 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

I also saw in a documentary that they compared the teeth of an upper or lower jaw to still existing dental records owned by Hitler's dentist, and they matched.

How recent was the documentary?  I'd be curious to compare it to the erm.. oh so reputable one I saw.


#5    Coyote Speaks

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 04:13 PM

View PostEldorado, on 13 January 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

If he did survive the fall of Berlin, the Soviets would have tracked him to the ends of the earth and done him in.

He was visibly ill the last he was seen in public so I doubt he lived to a ripe old age and anyway, the members of his personal staff who survived all told the same story of his final days.

I agree with you about the Soviets.  The common conspiracy answer for your latter point is that it would be beneficial for the staff to all corroborate the same story - they're looking to cover it all up.  

I'd like the thread to veer more heavily towards speculation than reality, hence the Alternative header, etc.  I realize that the possibility of this is incredibly small, I'm more wondering "if" it could happen, then "how" would it have worked.


#6    Abramelin

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 04:30 PM

View PostCoyote Speaks, on 13 January 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

How recent was the documentary?  I'd be curious to compare it to the erm.. oh so reputable one I saw.

If I remember well, it was a documentary on National Geographic. And I saw it like 4 months ago (Dutch subtitles, and it may have been a couple of years old already).


#7    Coyote Speaks

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 04:33 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 13 January 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

If I remember well, it was a documentary on National Geographic. And I saw it like 4 months ago (Dutch subtitles, and it may have been a couple of years old already).

Excellent. :)  I'll poke around for it sooner or later - I'd be interested to verify the veracity of that finding, it'd be huge.  

May I ask whether or not you think, plain speculation wise, it would have been possible for Hitler to survive the fall of Berlin at all?  Just in a playing with history alternative timeline sort of situation.


#8    Abramelin

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 04:37 PM

View PostCoyote Speaks, on 13 January 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

Excellent. :)  I'll poke around for it sooner or later - I'd be interested to verify the veracity of that finding, it'd be huge.  

May I ask whether or not you think, plain speculation wise, it would have been possible for Hitler to survive the fall of Berlin at all?  Just in a playing with history alternative timeline sort of situation.

Well, yes, but he may have had a lot of trouble eating, and his face would have looked like a real mess, lol.

You know, without jaws and all that?


#9    Coyote Speaks

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 04:41 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 13 January 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

Well, yes, but he may have had a lot of trouble eating, and his face would have looked like a real mess, lol.

You know, without jaws and all that?

:rolleyes:

Feeding tubes, feeding tubes...  Could've been Man in the Iron Mask part two? Or, well, the man with the iron face..


#10    Abramelin

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 04:47 PM

The jaw remains were compared with dental evidence given to the Americans by Hitler's American-trained dentist, Hugo Blaschke, who had been arrested in 1945. Blaschke, an SS general, had treated Hitler from 1934 until shortly before his death.

When his testimony was added to that of his assistant, Kate Hausermann, there was a great deal of material to check the jaw remains against, and they seemed to match. "Hitler had very bad teeth. He had periodontal disease. He had many reconstructions, some done before the time of Blaschke," said Prof Perrier.

There were no X-rays of Hitler's jaw available at the time, which could have helped to provide even better confirmation. Then, in 1972, archives in Washington released five X-rays of Hitler's head, taken on July 20, 1944. They revealed bridge work, periodontal (gum) disease and "very unusual dental work", said Prof Perrier. These matched Blaschke's evidence and the Russian autopsy.

Prof Perrier has now provided further evidence to link the remains in the bunker to footage of the Führer. He combed Swiss archives for newsreels of Hitler and produced computer-enhanced images of his teeth to compare with the autopsy, X-rays and Blaschke's report. Prof Perrier found clear-cut matches between the computer-enhanced footage of Hitler's teeth and the bunker remains
.

http://www.fpp.co.uk.../CorpseID2.html


#11    Coyote Speaks

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 04:53 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 13 January 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

The jaw remains were compared with dental evidence given to the Americans by Hitler's American-trained dentist, Hugo Blaschke, who had been arrested in 1945. Blaschke, an SS general, had treated Hitler from 1934 until shortly before his death.

When his testimony was added to that of his assistant, Kate Hausermann, there was a great deal of material to check the jaw remains against, and they seemed to match. "Hitler had very bad teeth. He had periodontal disease. He had many reconstructions, some done before the time of Blaschke," said Prof Perrier.

There were no X-rays of Hitler's jaw available at the time, which could have helped to provide even better confirmation. Then, in 1972, archives in Washington released five X-rays of Hitler's head, taken on July 20, 1944. They revealed bridge work, periodontal (gum) disease and "very unusual dental work", said Prof Perrier. These matched Blaschke's evidence and the Russian autopsy.

Prof Perrier has now provided further evidence to link the remains in the bunker to footage of the Führer. He combed Swiss archives for newsreels of Hitler and produced computer-enhanced images of his teeth to compare with the autopsy, X-rays and Blaschke's report. Prof Perrier found clear-cut matches between the computer-enhanced footage of Hitler's teeth and the bunker remains
.

http://www.fpp.co.uk.../CorpseID2.html


Fantastic!  Thank you so much for that!  :tu:


#12    Eldorado

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 05:00 PM

Maybe it was Hitler's double that had the bad teeth and it was the double who was sacrificed outside the Berlin Bunker.  (Am sure old Adolf had a Donny-Osmond-like smile)


#13    RedSquirrel

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 05:11 PM

I'm probably the only person to feel this:

I hope he lived. I hope he saw all of his dreams dashed to pieces, his 'empire' collapse, his dream unfulfilled.
I hope he saw the Jews, Blacks and Romani move on to better things. I hope he was fully aware of his failures.

  That alone would make his life a form of suffering. Just my two cents.

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#14    Yes_Man

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 05:17 PM

View PostRedSquirrel, on 13 January 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

I'm probably the only person to feel this:

I hope he lived. I hope he saw all of his dreams dashed to pieces, his 'empire' collapse, his dream unfulfilled.
I hope he saw the Jews, Blacks and Romani move on to better things. I hope he was fully aware of his failures.

  That alone would make his life a form of suffering. Just my two cents.
He didn't succeed, however people have tried to copy him and he would of liked that if he was alive.


#15    Goodnite

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 05:19 PM

I've seen the presentation and read some on this matter. I do not believe Herr Hitler survived the war. He was suffering from Parkinsons disease among other ailments. Considering this and the failure of his Reich, suicide was an appropriate remedy to his situation.

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