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Has any "Evidence" Baffled Real Scientists?


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#1    CakeOrDeath

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 09:40 PM

This forum is such an excellent resource.  I've been reading for years and my personal beliefs have actually shifted thanks to contributors.

People like Sakari, Mulder etc. have really helped me think more critically about things around me. My question then is this, are there any cases or

evidence that have truly baffled those in the scientific community?  I've seen some really interesting topics on various incidents in the UFO forums,

but nothing of that nature in the paranormal area.

This seems odd to me, because there are so many reports of supernatural activity and so many believers, you would think there would be a plethora of

evidence to look at.

What time is it? "peeas nuh burder" and Jelly time!

#2    questionmark

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:01 PM

If any of these cases have baffled scientists it was not more than for 5 minutes. After that they either had a reasonable explanation or the evidence how the fraud was committed.

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The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
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#3    CakeOrDeath

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:17 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 17 January 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

If any of these cases have baffled scientists it was not more than for 5 minutes. After that they either had a reasonable explanation or the evidence how the fraud was committed.

So no interesting, unexplained "one off" cases left "unsolved" or "not debunked." I guess I just don't understand the multitude of beleivers and shows based on this belief.

While I personally don't put much stock in the "credible UFO cases" they do atleast have some interesting documentation and witnesses who beleive they saw "something."

What time is it? "peeas nuh burder" and Jelly time!

#4    questionmark

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:26 PM

View PostCakeOrDeath, on 17 January 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

So no interesting, unexplained "one off" cases left "unsolved" or "not debunked." I guess I just don't understand the multitude of beleivers and shows based on this belief.

While I personally don't put much stock in the "credible UFO cases" they do atleast have some interesting documentation and witnesses who beleive they saw "something."

There are many cases where a relevant scientist never was consulted, like in a case of a unknown species a mathematician was the "authority" instead of a biologist and sometimes when there is no interest (either by the relevant scientists or the guardians of the "mystery") to analyze it. And UFOs is about the saddest example, so far most cases have either been explained or debunked.

The funniest example is this picture:

Posted Image

Despite that the author has admitted that this is a hub cap he threw himself into the air more than 40 years ago it still ghosts around "Ufologists" circles as unexplained.

A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

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#5    CakeOrDeath

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:39 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 17 January 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

There are many cases where a relevant scientist never was consulted, like in a case of a unknown species a mathematician was the "authority" instead of a biologist and sometimes when there is no interest (either by the relevant scientists or the guardians of the "mystery") to analyze it. And UFOs is about the saddest example, so far most cases have either been explained or debunked.

The funniest example is this picture:

Posted Image

Despite that the author has admitted that this is a hub cap he threw himself into the air more than 40 years ago it still ghosts around "Ufologists" circles as unexplained.

I get where you are coming from with the UFO thing. (Love that photo btw haha...hubcap so obvious) But there are atleast some interesting radar returns "unexplained" lights etc. with some of the UFO cases. Again, not saying "real" just saying, more thought provoking. (Which is why I enjoy this site.)

It just seems the paranormal area would produce more evidence than UFOs because of it's earthly origins, and the number of people actively looking for them.

What time is it? "peeas nuh burder" and Jelly time!

#6    nyuk

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:40 PM

Its difficult for someone to report sighting a ufo.
There have been countless reports from many people sighting a ufo, some of these reports are made by pilots.
Civilian and airforce pilots have claimed to see ufos. However, proving beyond any doubt they have seen a ufo is as difficult as proving beyond any doubt the sighting of a ghost/spirit etc.
I guess it doesnt help people who claim to have seen a ufo, when recently a man reported seeing one. He rang the police, who explained to him it was the moon   :yes:  :yes:


#7    DBunker

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:50 PM

Has any "Evidence" Baffled Real Scientists?


As with most of the paranormal claims, I find that EXTREMLY hard to believe.

Edited by DBunker, 17 January 2012 - 10:50 PM.

Now that communications technology has made it possible to give global reach to the bizarre and archive it forever, it is essential for men and women of reason resolutely to counter the delusions of the fringe element. James S. Robbins

#8    questionmark

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 12:11 AM

View PostCakeOrDeath, on 17 January 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

I get where you are coming from with the UFO thing. (Love that photo btw haha...hubcap so obvious) But there are atleast some interesting radar returns "unexplained" lights etc. with some of the UFO cases. Again, not saying "real" just saying, more thought provoking. (Which is why I enjoy this site.)

It just seems the paranormal area would produce more evidence than UFOs because of it's earthly origins, and the number of people actively looking for them.

The only UFO I have ever seen, and spend half a night hunting with my girlfriend instead of doing the proper thing you do at night with the girlfriend was this thing:
Posted Image
when we had it hunted down it looked like this
Posted Image

and resulted to be this :
Posted Image

A unmanned hot air balloon the good people of Betanzos/Spain launch every year in honor of their patron Saint.

I am cured, thank you.

A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

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#9    aquatus1

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 12:25 AM

It comes down to the definition of "baffled".

There are those who claim that when a scientist cannot come up with a solid explanation, they are "baffled".

Scientists, however, are fully aware that there are situations in which one simply does not have enough information to come to a decision.  This can occur in any subject, be it UFO or where your cat goes when it leaves in the evenings.  A scientists, then, would rather acknowledge that they have no explanation, rather than attempt to fabricate one.


#10    Ashotep

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 12:10 AM

I saw a ghost one time and before that I had my doubts.  Now I am totally convinced of life after death.  How would you prove it thought.  I really don't know because like in my case the ghost only appeared to me once and I think she moved on.  It happened so unexpectedly and I was so awe struck by her presence she was gone before I even thought about getting a camera.


#11    Habitat

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 12:32 AM

View PostHilander, on 21 January 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

I saw a ghost one time and before that I had my doubts.  Now I am totally convinced of life after death.  How would you prove it thought.  I really don't know because like in my case the ghost only appeared to me once and I think she moved on.  It happened so unexpectedly and I was so awe struck by her presence she was gone before I even thought about getting a camera.
Interesting post for several reasons, firstly, "I had my doubts" suggests open-mindedness. Who can truly say they "know" that whatever these  phenomena are, they must reveal themselves regardless of any belief by the viewer. We all know that weird science about the observer affecting what is observed in particle physics, it is a leap too far to assume that ghosts or whatever are unfazed by the constituency of the viewers, IMO. Secondly the observation about the camera, if you are truly transfixed, as you would be by something altogether other, you don't avert your eyes from it.


#12    rodentraiser

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 03:39 AM

The problem with the paranormal is that evidence is almost always an absence of any logical explanation, which means there's always the chance that a "ghost" may be able to be explained at some future point when there is better equipment or a more detailed analysis is done. Likewise, most paranormal experiences are seen or heard by only one person who is not investigating at the time and has no equipment or anything else to make a comparison to what they may have heard, seen or felt, making it difficult to corroborate what happened.

Having said that, I've had several experiences, of which I have no doubt were paranormal. I am convinced that although the first could have had some natural explanation, the follow up to it then made that experience, if it wasn't paranormal, extremely coincidental. The second paranormal experience I have tape of. Is either of these evidence? As an investigator, I say no, simply because I have no witnesses. The first makes a good story and the second could be explained away because no one was there to say I might be mistaken - or not.

In general, what makes a paranormal happening believable are a couple of things. First, multiple witnesses, such as what happened after Flt. 401. Even better is when the witnesses, as in this case, were high ranking people who probably didn't believe in what they saw. Secondly, the kind of sighting that can be verified by later information that wasn't known when the sighting was made could be considered proof, such as Harry Martindale's run in with the Roman soldiers. Or even better, physical, uncontestable evidence from someone who didn't know they were seeing a ghost along with an after-the-fact corroboration of the supposed sighting, such as what happened with Deke Slayton's red airplane. And thirdly, it comes down to the integrity of the person who had the experience and then to whether that person was actually experiencing something or just seeing something he expected to see, which is why paranormal experiences that happen when a person isn't expecting them could be considered more reliable.

Bottom line is, ghost hunting is as frustrating and fun as looking for supernovas. You know they're out there, but it takes a lot of work to find one and then the supernova is the only one you can really prove.

Edited by rodentraiser, 21 January 2012 - 03:42 AM.

Posted Image


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We have been voting for the lesser of two evils for decade upon decade and look where it’s gotten us.     Coleman Luck


#13    Habitat

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 03:49 AM

Interesting post Rodentraiser. I really believe this stuff is, as I said above, "altogether other" and not playing by our rules.


#14    daddyrichie

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 11:05 AM

I can give a case that scientists cannot fully give an explanation to and that's only because it happened no less than about half an hour walk from my own front door.

Link to the article reported is as follows http://www.thisisham..._Netley_Abbey_/

As it says in there "Ghost experts say they are baffled by the appearance of the hooded-character and are investigating."

I have yet to hear of anything after this as to whether they have come to any form of conclusion yet or if they are still investigating but it's certainly made people think about it a lot longer than 5 minutes


#15    nyuk

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 10:50 PM

View PostHilander, on 21 January 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

I saw a ghost one time and before that I had my doubts.  Now I am totally convinced of life after death.  How would you prove it thought.  I really don't know because like in my case the ghost only appeared to me once and I think she moved on.  It happened so unexpectedly and I was so awe struck by her presence she was gone before I even thought about getting a camera.

Have you any idea who she was??





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