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The Problems with Bigfoot


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#91    Particle Noun

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 09:26 PM

Very very true Neognosis.

I have been tantalized lately with some of the new findings on early homind species and their contemperanity with modern man.  It makes an existing contemperaneous homind species a *small* bit more palatable, if still very unlikely.

I admit to being a little tired of the 'nothing in the fossil record' argument.

This is CERTAINLY fact, but it is also fact that the fossil record is woefully incomplete.  We didn't even have fossil evidence of chimpanzees until around 2005, and that is a very populous species we KNOW exist.  And with the amount of new info coming in about early hominids, I don't see how you can use the argument either way with any force.


#92    psyche101

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:09 PM

View Postjbondo, on 02 February 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

There is so much the OP has left out that it would take me quite some time to respond. One thing is making the assumption that evolution is fact and then basing his entire argument from that.

It is proven to be both.

LINK - Evolution as fact and theory

View Postjbondo, on 02 February 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

Another issue is time spent in the forests of NA. I notice that most who argue on the side of the OP have never stepped beyond the blacktop. This is not to say that the OP fits this category, just an observation from experience.

I think you will find most skeptics have been in situations where commonly told tales say contact should be regular, yet never a sign is spotted. As Neo has told you, he hikes BF country constantly, and he has posted pictures of his expeditions, even a Bigfoot "footprint" ;) I personally live in what is described by what is regarded as Yowie researchers in Australia and a Yowie hotspot. Sakari has posted trail cam pics and has a most interesting thread on the subject happening. I would say your observation is in the wrong direction to be honest.

View Postjbondo, on 02 February 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

Justin Smeja claims that he witnessed both quadrupedal and bipedal behavior during the Sierra Kills incident. I've also read this from others who claim to have seen Bigfoot.

Do any other animals progress from quadrupeds to bipeds in nature? Curious. That more sounds like two different animals to me.

View Postjbondo, on 02 February 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

I recommend spending some time at this site: http://bigfootevidence.blogspot.com/

May I ask, why do you feel this site is better than any other?

View Postjbondo, on 02 February 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

Finally, while it may seem that I believe in Bigfoot, the truth is that I have yet to make up my mind. I range from 45% to 65% as far as level of belief goes.

LOL, from past exchanges, you had me fooled!

View Postjbondo, on 02 February 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

It's a matter of reading what those who are heavily involved with Bigfoot have to say, such as Jeff Meldrum, Melba Ketchum and a few others.

Melba Ketchum ??? Really? What about the information provided in Evans post?

Edited by psyche101, 02 February 2012 - 11:10 PM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#93    psyche101

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:18 PM

View PostParticle Noun, on 02 February 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

Very very true Neognosis.

I have been tantalized lately with some of the new findings on early homind species and their contemperanity with modern man.  It makes an existing contemperaneous homind species a *small* bit more palatable, if still very unlikely.

I admit to being a little tired of the 'nothing in the fossil record' argument.

This is CERTAINLY fact, but it is also fact that the fossil record is woefully incomplete.  We didn't even have fossil evidence of chimpanzees until around 2005, and that is a very populous species we KNOW exist.  And with the amount of new info coming in about early hominids, I don't see how you can use the argument either way with any force.

Hi Particle Noun

It is more that fossil record is telling. We do not have to find the bones of a species to know it exists, there is likely to be transitional fossils, and clues from migration as the species establishes itself. FInding the Chimp fossils was no real surprise, ande the time taken to find them is more due to location and environment rather than difficulty.  Early humans split off from a common ancestor shared with chimpanzees between five and eight million years ago.
It is slightly possible we did just find the Denisovian Hominid, but the Denisovian's are a relative, again, a pleasant surprise, but not a huge shock that would turn the fossil record around. A Bigfoot would. As I mention above, we made the split 5-8 million years ago, the lineages are distinct, but Bigfoot encounters that can be analysed, like the Patterson film, indicate a mix which does not seem to be in the fossil record. If Bigfoot does exist, it will be a major find and a huge rewrite of many known records, and that seems rather unlikely.

Cheers.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#94    Particle Noun

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:33 PM

True enough Psyche.

I am quietly hoping for just such a crazy rewrite for no other reason than how freaking cool it would be.

Again, very unlikely.


#95    psyche101

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:38 PM

View PostParticle Noun, on 02 February 2012 - 11:33 PM, said:

True enough Psyche.

I am quietly hoping for just such a crazy rewrite for no other reason than how freaking cool it would be.

Again, very unlikely.


Hey Particle Noun

I think that it would be magnificent too, anthropologists and zoologists would be buzzing for decades. The information that would come from such a discovery would really turn heads, that alone seems to make the ideal unlikely.

Cheers.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#96    evancj

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:39 PM

View Postjbondo, on 02 February 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

There is so much the OP has left out that it would take me quite some time to respond. One thing is making the assumption that evolution is fact and then basing his entire argument from that.

I would love to read your explanation on how evolution is not a fact. My guess is you learned your biology at Sunday School.

View Postjbondo, on 02 February 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

Another issue is time spent in the forests of NA. I notice that most who argue on the side of the OP have never stepped beyond the blacktop. This is not to say that the OP fits this category, just an observation from experience.

How could you possibly know this? What experience do you have that lets you know that most skeptics have never been off the blacktop?

BTW what exactly is your outdoor experience?    

View Postjbondo, on 02 February 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

Justin Smeja claims that he witnessed both quadrupedal and bipedal behavior during the Sierra Kills incident. I've also read this from others who claim to have seen Bigfoot.

Really? You actually believe that story?  

View Postjbondo, on 02 February 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

I recommend spending some time at this site: http://bigfootevidence.blogspot.com/

Finally, while it may seem that I believe in Bigfoot, the truth is that I have yet to make up my mind. I range from 45% to 65% as far as level of belief goes.

It's a matter of reading what those who are heavily involved with Bigfoot have to say, such as Jeff Meldrum, Melba Ketchum and a few others.

Been there done that. If anything these people have strengthened my belief that bigfoot is not real.


#97    hucksterfoot

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:50 PM

Quote

"Iím halfway thinking in the back of my mind that somebodyís going to pull around the corner and itís going to be like a film crew or something like that."

Quote

ďHey bro, donít shoot! Donít shoot! That is not a bear! Thatís a person in a suit! Thatís a person in a suit! Donít shoot!Ē



Posted Image


#98    evancj

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 12:07 AM

View Posthucksterfoot, on 02 February 2012 - 11:50 PM, said:

Posted Image

:w00t: :w00t: :w00t: I would have shot too.

Quote

http://www.ghosttheo...river-speak-out

As they drove along, suddenly they spotted what appeared to be a very large bear standing in the road, waving itís arms over itís head. Knowing that a bear couldnít possibly do this, they stopped.

The driver (who is still unidentified at the time of this article) immediately got out his binoculars to view the ďanimalĒ. Before he knew it Justin touched off a round that hit the creature who then crashed into the brush.

Before the men could get their bearings, two more, much smaller creatures stepped out and before the driver could stop him, Justin shot one of them.

After a heated exchange, both men hurried to where the smaller animal was laying. They had made it just in time to witnessed the unpleasant final breaths of what they now realized was an adolescent Sasquatch.

Yes, Justin had shot not one but two Sasquatch in a matter of seconds, a mother and one of her two young offspring. At the time Justin claimed that fear prompted the shootings but as you read on, this excuse begins to break down.

Apparently the two hunters decided it would be impossible to pack the creatures out that day and instead returned the next day to remove portions of the carcasses. From current information, the driver kept a sample for himself but Justin allegedly took part of the harvest and gave it to Melba Ketchum for DNA analysis.

They shot them in the road right next to their truck, but couldn't pack them out? :blink: :blink: :blink:


#99    hucksterfoot

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 12:27 AM

View Postevancj, on 03 February 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

:w00t: :w00t: :w00t: I would have shot too.

C'mon, he spent good money to know all about H bombs 76 million years ago. :]


Posted Image

Edited by hucksterfoot, 03 February 2012 - 01:08 AM.


#100    evancj

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 02:22 AM

View Posthucksterfoot, on 03 February 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

C'mon, he spent good money to know all about H bombs 76 million years ago. :]


Posted Image

How do you explain that mommy deserved to die to a face like that?


#101    jbondo

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 02:03 PM

View PostNeognosis, on 02 February 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

That's two things you are wrong about.

I'll be you dollars to donuts that I've logged more miles on the trail and spent more nights sleeping outside in the deep woods than you or probably most of the other posters on this forum.

Some of it right in the middle of the North East's bigfoot sighting hotspots.

And evolution is a fact. We know it happens.

Past evolution is a theory. But a scientific theory composed of many pieces of evidence that all support the theory.


Someone who comes onto this forum and argues that the past evolution of species is just a random story or that evolution itself is just a theory doesn't have, IMO, the necessary understanding of the natural world necessary to make a compelling argument about what might or might not live in the North American ecosystem.


I see you conveniently cut off the part where I said the time spent in the woods may not apply to you.

Furthermore, I never argued evolution. Maybe I wasn't as clear as I could have been but I obviously didn't argue about it. I should have specified as I realize evolution is fact in some respects and theory in others.

I have spent 30+ years hunting, fishing and just spending time in nature. The only reason I don't have more time is due to my need to make money which put me in a large city setting. If you have more time logged than me then I congratulate you.


#102    jbondo

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 02:11 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 02 February 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

It is proven to be both.

LINK - Evolution as fact and theory



I think you will find most skeptics have been in situations where commonly told tales say contact should be regular, yet never a sign is spotted. As Neo has told you, he hikes BF country constantly, and he has posted pictures of his expeditions, even a Bigfoot "footprint" ;) I personally live in what is described by what is regarded as Yowie researchers in Australia and a Yowie hotspot. Sakari has posted trail cam pics and has a most interesting thread on the subject happening. I would say your observation is in the wrong direction to be honest.



Do any other animals progress from quadrupeds to bipeds in nature? Curious. That more sounds like two different animals to me.



May I ask, why do you feel this site is better than any other?



LOL, from past exchanges, you had me fooled!



Melba Ketchum ??? Really? What about the information provided in Evans post?

For the record, I am a skeptic.

Before Justin (allegedly) shot the two animals he observed them going from two to four and back to two as they moved.

I merely recommended that site. I believe it to be the most up to date and informative Bigfoot site on the Internet. Take a week and drop by for a couple minutes a day and I think you will see what I mean.

I gave a couple names and Ketchum was one. If the truth be known, the only researcher I can name who I trust is Meldrum.

Thanks for the interaction.


#103    jbondo

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 02:19 PM

View Postevancj, on 03 February 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

:w00t: :w00t: :w00t: I would have shot too.



They shot them in the road right next to their truck, but couldn't pack them out? :blink: :blink: :blink:

I gave you guys one aspect of his story. I never said I believed him. In fact I have found more holes in his story than I can count. I've read several accounts over the years from people who say they've seen the two-four-two behavior.

I can see you guys are not as open minded as I am concerning this subject. So, I'll vacate and allow you to talk amongst yourselves until the next person comes along for you to bash.

I wish you all the best.


#104    hucksterfoot

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:45 PM

View Postjbondo, on 03 February 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

I see you conveniently cut off the part where I said the time spent in the woods may not apply to you.

Furthermore, I never argued evolution. Maybe I wasn't as clear as I could have been but I obviously didn't argue about it. I should have specified as I realize evolution is fact in some respects and theory in others.

I have spent 30+ years hunting, fishing and just spending time in nature. The only reason I don't have more time is due to my need to make money which put me in a large city setting. If you have more time logged than me then I congratulate you.

So what part of evolution do you think is theory?

Edit to add: Are you using theory in a vague and fuzzy sense?

...and since you are vacating:

A theory is a conceptual structure used to explain existing facts; it isn't facts in some areas and theory in others.

Edited by hucksterfoot, 03 February 2012 - 04:24 PM.


#105    hucksterfoot

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 04:38 PM

View Postevancj, on 03 February 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

How do you explain that mommy deserved to die to a face like that?

I did it for science ....you ugly little monster. :]





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