135 replies to this topic

[Damrod]

Spock_the_Future, on 03 February 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

Actually it's still out because we deviated from the topic and I listed these because I was the one asking the OP in "Prove to me that GOD exists" to list down a set of points on which a discussion could be based. This is all I can offer you as a explanation.

PS: I have one more similar topic too and I am also going to list down these very same points there too, I presume and hope that if the topic is different then the line of discussion will take different turns in both topics.

I can surely say now that I am naive.  

Edit: Now I think that I wouldn't. I think that the other topic won't benefit with these points, It's a different   ballgame. Would quote someone of you guys again perhaps on that one too   .

Meh...these types of conversations have a way of merging anyway...it is a fundamental question..."is there a God and why does he let the world turn to shiz?"

I don't have an answer for that.  I don't know if there is a superior being out there...though...I am kind of inclined to think there is a master set of eyes watching over the experiment.  Is it good or evil?...Methinks it is neither...don't get me wrong....I am not saying the "scientist" is god...consider these ideas...

After reading some of the mightiest philosophers of all time...and some of the razors edge scientist...I don't have a problem accepting that our perception is flawed...each of our senses has a limited bandwidth in which it operates...could there be something above and below our ability to notice?...in my opinion...absolutely!  Is it alien...no...not technically...is it alien to us...yes definitely!  

I think...when technology advances more...we will find that there are "states of being" that are above and below our limited senses capacity to acknowledge and comprehend...just like we discovered there is sound above and below our capacity...and we discovered there is light above and below our thresholds of comprehension.  Thus...it is not out of the question to think there are simply states of being...states of matter...that we have not learned to comprehend just yet.

I am not trying to embrace a higher power or kill it...I am simply saying...we still have a lot to learn that is completely within our capacity and technology...if we spend the time...and "THE MONEY" to do so....oh but I said a dirty thing...spend money...and we know the conservatives hate that...especially if it might change their caveman opinion of what a superior being might be...

Edited by Damrod, 03 February 2012 - 08:05 PM.

[dalia]

Rlyeh, on 01 February 2012 - 05:01 AM, said:

And after all this, you come to the consclusion atheists are just rebelling?

I would not use the adjective "just" in regard to rebellion.  Rebellion can have serious consequences.

Rebellion created and nation; rebellion destroyed a nation.

If you prefer "turned against God" then go for it. However you say it you abandoned faith.

You are amusing!  I gave my personal opinion to the question posed by the OP and you come unglued. You truly show your prejudism as well as your ignorance.

To the OP:  I could just as well have said that atheist have no real love in their hearts. But, that will probably start another storm of controversy, LOL!

[Spock_the_Future]

Damrod, on 03 February 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

Meh...these types of conversations have a way of merging anyway...it is a fundamental question..."is there a God and why does he let the world turn to shiz?"

I don't have an answer for that.  I don't know if there is a superior being out there...though...I am kind of inclined to think there is a master set of eyes watching over the experiment.  Is it good or evil?...Methinks it is neither...don't get me wrong....I am not saying the "scientist" is god...consider these ideas...

After reading some of the mightiest philosophers of all time...and some of the razors edge scientist...I don't have a problem accepting that our perception is flawed...each of our senses has a limited bandwidth in which it operates...could there be something above and below our ability to notice?...in my opinion...absolutely!  Is it alien...no...not technically...is it alien to us...yes definitely!  

I think...when technology advances more...we will find that there are "states of being" that are above and below our limited senses capacity to acknowledge and comprehend...just like we discovered there is sound above and below our capacity...and we discovered there is light above and below our thresholds of comprehension.  Thus...it is not out of the question to think there are simply states of being...states of matter...that we have not learned to comprehend just yet.

I am not trying to embrace a higher power or kill it...I am simply saying...we still have a lot to learn that is completely within our capacity and technology...if we spend the time...and "THE MONEY" to do so....oh but I said a dirty thing...spend money...and we know the conservatives hate that...especially if it might change their caveman opinion of what a superior being might be...

Hi Damrod,

I would say this. Life is a playground   , never could understand that phrase(I also believe in one of Michael Crichton quotes in his novel Congo, "No One escapes Life Alive"). We need to make the head and tails of it. What is it that we collectively believe (never mind what I do, It's a discussion) ? Does it make us a better person ? Is this why Atheism was formed and now has too gone to hell altogether (Hardliners again) ? Do they not treat religious evangelists as scum, as is vise versa ? They do don't they ? I'll say we do as I am one of them and am still not able to convince or influence Atheist hardliners of otherwise (The ones I met I mean). And then where does this take US as people and as World Citizens ? NOWHERE ! All I ever hope is that we gain a common ground and learn to love each other, not try to kill each other in the name of faith, as Muslims are taught to do for their faith. Are we not the same species sharing the same planet ? Is domination so above us ? If the GOD is there is he listening to me ? Am I being selfish here ? Is there a GOD anyway who will listen to my outcries ? Am I better an Atheist who can now resume his duties just because I know I am a lone voice and cannot unite the world ? Who needs a GOD then when this is the shizz we have to get into anyway. Personal hell or heaven have no meaning for me. We live together, We live as a species and if GOD devised us as a separate infighting Idiots who destroys our own kind, the same GOD who supposedly made us as the image of GOD, just to prove that SHE/HE is THE GOD then I feel sorry for me and for all the Theists as well as my fellow Atheists.

In the end GOD(US) help us all. Amen !!!

[Rlyeh]

dalia, on 04 February 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

You are amusing!  I gave my personal opinion to the question posed by the OP and you come unglued. You truly show your prejudism as well as your ignorance.

So you're a hypocrite too. Good job.

Your opinion includes accusing atheists of rebellion? Please don't use such a weak cop out.

[Spock_the_Future]

dalia, on 04 February 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

To the OP:  I could just as well have said that atheist have no real love in their hearts. But, that will probably start another storm of controversy, LOL!

No dalia, I can assure you that it wouldn't, no controversies, no accusations from my side, we are free to share what we believe in the forum , All I can do is repeat what I said and just ask you to consider it

Quote

I would say this. Life is a playground   , never could understand that phrase(I also believe in one of Michael Crichton quotes in his novel Congo, "No One escapes Life Alive"). We need to make the head and tails of it. What is it that we collectively believe (never mind what I do, It's a discussion) ? Does it make us a better person ? Is this why Atheism was formed and now has too gone to hell altogether (Hardliners again) ? Do they not treat religious evangelists as scum, as is vise versa ? They do don't they ? I'll say we do as I am one of them and am still not able to convince or influence Atheist hardliners of otherwise (The ones I met I mean). And then where does this take US as people and as World Citizens ? NOWHERE ! All I ever hope is that we gain a common ground and learn to love each other, not try to kill each other in the name of faith, as Muslims are taught to do for their faith. Are we not the same species sharing the same planet ? Is domination so above us ? If the GOD is there is he listening to me ? Am I being selfish here ? Is there a GOD anyway who will listen to my outcries ? Am I better an Atheist who can now resume his duties just because I know I am a lone voice and cannot unite the world ? Who needs a GOD then when this is the shizz we have to get into anyway. Personal hell or heaven have no meaning for me. We live together, We live as a species and if GOD devised us as a separate infighting Idiots who destroys our own kind, the same GOD who supposedly made us as the image of GOD, just to prove that SHE/HE is THE GOD then I feel sorry for me and for all the Theists as well as my fellow Atheists.
In the end GOD(US) help us all. Amen !!!

Please do read the above quote and reply. Thanks for your indulgence.

[Spock_the_Future]

intentional bump to the thread

intentional bump to the thread

[dalia]

Spock_the_Future, on 06 February 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

No dalia, I can assure you that it wouldn't, no controversies, no accusations from my side, we are free to share what we believe in the forum , All I can do is repeat what I said and just ask you to consider it



Please do read the above quote and reply. Thanks for your indulgence.

I hear a voice crying in the wilderness.

God did not create this world so that it could go to crap. People have done that all on their own.

God created human beings to be companions to Himself.  The first people chose "to be like gods" rather than being companions with God.
People choose either to believe there is a Creator or they choose to deny there is a Creator. We all have free will to choose. Each of us has a choice to see the beauty that God created in this universe or we can choose to vocus on the horrors that human's inflict on each other. If we try to reconcile this dicotomy we may as well check into the nearest asylum.

If we choose to focus on the beauty of creation and recognize that there is a creator, then we can know that He has a plan and that all is not lost. That is the essence of faith.
I do not comdemn atheists. I cannot judge another's heart nor can I know whether that person may someday become a believer in God and accept His Son.

Your quote leads me to believe that you are searching for the truth. I pray you find it.

dalia

[dalia]

Rlyeh, on 05 February 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

So you're a hypocrite too. Good job.

Your opinion includes accusing atheists of rebellion? Please don't use such a weak cop out.

How does voicing an ipinion equate with being a hypogrite? People often accuse others of what they, themselves are guilty of. Are you a hypocrite? Are you judging me based on your own inadaqacies or are you just the type that judges others through sheer malice?

Rebellion is in all our hearts. How we choose to address that indicates what kind of person we are.

Next time you decide to butt into a conversation between and OP and a respondent, try to be a bit more civil, please.

[metaphysical]

On Earth all the people who live well might make too many sins. That means God don't make anything about them. God seems that don't judge fair. Here are people who do whatever they want and God seems not to exist. Do your life as you wish the judgment comes from people.

[dalia]

metaphysical, on 13 February 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

On Earth all the people who live well might make too many sins. That means God don't make anything about them. God seems that don't judge fair. Here are people who do whatever they want and God seems not to exist. Do your life as you wish the judgment comes from people.

Ummmm...what?

[Rlyeh]

dalia, on 13 February 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

How does voicing an ipinion equate with being a hypogrite?

Because you're criticizing people for the same thing you're doing. Is calling it an opinion meant to justify your accusations?

Quote

People often accuse others of what they, themselves are guilty of. Are you a hypocrite? Are you judging me based on your own inadaqacies or are you just the type that judges others through sheer malice?

Are you then ignorant and prejudice?

Quote

Next time you decide to butt into a conversation between and OP and a respondent, try to be a bit more civil, please.

Sure, if you want to think next time before you post.

[Spock_the_Future]

dalia, on 13 February 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

I hear a voice crying in the wilderness.

God did not create this world so that it could go to crap. People have done that all on their own.

God created human beings to be companions to Himself.  The first people chose "to be like gods" rather than being companions with God.
People choose either to believe there is a Creator or they choose to deny there is a Creator. We all have free will to choose. Each of us has a choice to see the beauty that God created in this universe or we can choose to vocus on the horrors that human's inflict on each other. If we try to reconcile this dicotomy we may as well check into the nearest asylum.

If we choose to focus on the beauty of creation and recognize that there is a creator, then we can know that He has a plan and that all is not lost. That is the essence of faith.
I do not comdemn atheists. I cannot judge another's heart nor can I know whether that person may someday become a believer in God and accept His Son.

Your quote leads me to believe that you are searching for the truth. I pray you find it.

dalia

Hi dalia,

I believe that free will was invented later on to answer similar queries. IT WAS INVENTED, before that everything used to be preordained (HER/HIS mysterious ways remember ?). when there was an issue explaining that (the bad things we do), free will was invented. I'll tell you something I have seen, Only bad actions are explained as free will, good actions are never said as free will, now when Theists get in hold of that argument (There were and are people much intelligent then me, I raise something which has been raised before) and I'll say Theist have no lack of lawyers too, Counter-arguments were presented too. In the end It's still a discussion.

Yes I agree, I am still searching for the Truth, It's there somewhere out there. What I would like to pray for instead is to not to have so many religions, have trust, not force and preach people, have a sense of morality, have a sense of exploration of the existing Universe and many more things. No GOD answers for that we do, and for that I don't think we need a GOD, free will or otherwise, GOD or no GOD. Are we heading towards what I wish for ? NO, we are infighting, we destroy ourselves. Is this the real frustration about the GOD and more still about HER/HIS preachers ? forced religion ?

Please read what I think and reply. I would request you not to quote scriptures and post sermons. I just wish to have your honest reply about how YOU feel about it.

[J. K.]

Spock_the_Future, on 14 February 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

I believe that free will was invented later on to answer similar queries. IT WAS INVENTED, before that everything used to be preordained (HER/HIS mysterious ways remember ?). when there was an issue explaining that (the bad things we do), free will was invented. I'll tell you something I have seen, Only bad actions are explained as free will, good actions are never said as free will, now when Theists get in hold of that argument (There were and are people much intelligent then me, I raise something which has been raised before) and I'll say Theist have no lack of lawyers too, Counter-arguments were presented too. In the end It's still a discussion.

In what way are good actions never said to be free will, only bad?  I have never heard that idea before.  From a Christian point of view, that would be incorrect; everything involves free will.  Additionally, the phrase "God moves in mysterious ways" is not found in the Bible.

[Spock_the_Future]

J. K., on 14 February 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

In what way are good actions never said to be free will, only bad?  I have never heard that idea before.  From a Christian point of view, that would be incorrect; everything involves free will.  Additionally, the phrase "God moves in mysterious ways" is not found in the Bible.

Hey Come On J.K., Tell me the good actions attributed to free will (as is in Bible) ? Are there any ? And as you've corrected me "Additionally, the phrase "God moves in mysterious ways" is not found in the Bible.", It is all invented.

Would you agree ?

[Spock_the_Future]

intentional bump (I was able to get online today). Hectic weeks ahead, will try and keep up.