152 replies to this topic

[regeneratia]

oathkeepers.org said:

Welcome to Oath Keepers

Oath Keepers is a non-partisan association of current and formerly serving military, reserves, National Guard, veterans, Peace Officers, and Fire Fighters who will fulfill the Oath we swore, with the support of like minded citizens who take an Oath to stand with us, to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, so help us God.

Read more...

For years now, I have wondered why our US military has not taken a stand against the deliberate destruction of the US Bill of Rights and US Constitution by our current US Congressmen, Bush The Stupider and Obama. And I have found a group of US service members who are indeed taking a stand on this issue.


Are you ready to stand up and defend the US Constitution and the US Bill of Rights?

Are you aware that there are police and soldiers that are unwilling to bypass the provisions in the US Constitution and will protect the US Bill of Rights?

Know your rights!

What are you going to do to take a stand against what is happening to our glorious US Constitution and our US Bill of Rights?
What do you think of this glorious group of brave service people?

Edited by regeneratia, 30 January 2012 - 12:30 AM.

[aquatus1]

Same thing I think about any group with a political agenda.

I am less interested in what they do for a living and more in how well they support their arguments.

[regeneratia]

aquatus1, on 30 January 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

Same thing I think about any group with a political agenda.

I am less interested in what they do for a living and more in how well they support their arguments.

Yes, we are well aware of your nature. Can you get on topic?

[aquatus1]

My apologies.  I was under the impression that you asked what we thought about this glorious group of brave service people.

Or is there is a different topic that you wish to discuss?

Edited by aquatus1, 30 January 2012 - 01:23 AM.

[regeneratia]

aquatus1, on 30 January 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

My apologies.  I was under the impression that you asked what we thought about this glorious group of brave service people.

Or is there is a different topic that you wish to discuss?

The Oath-Keepers agenda crosses political lines, while this issue is, despite it's bipartisan stance, by it's very nature a political issue. Did you not view the website? Did you not view how they support their arguments? No problem, take a little time for it. Go to you tube and see the interviews, ... if there are any. See just how they support their arguments.

"Don't be a tool of oppression to your own people." Stewart Rhodes

Edited by regeneratia, 30 January 2012 - 01:54 AM.

[regeneratia]

I think about how poorly our Veterans have been treated. Can't seem to forget it.
Lords of War eat up, chew and spit out their own.

Time to fight back against those kind of people.

[and then]

regeneratia, on 30 January 2012 - 02:20 AM, said:

I think about how poorly our Veterans have been treated. Can't seem to forget it.
Lords of War eat up, chew and spit out their own.

Time to fight back against those kind of people.

Wow, that's deep.  And probably true up to a point. War never has been a very nice occupation. But we keep having them just the same and I think it's because human nature is just flawed in a very deep way.  Some people think there are NO just wars.  Nothing worth fighting for and anyone who does fight is evil.  People who join the military don't often fall into such a category.  I think the American military are the best trained and usually the most humane of war fighters.  I don't see some dark cabal in the ether manipulating our forces against us but anything is possible I guess...
One thing I do know for certain is that when soldiers start planning in advance which orders they will or won't obey they stop being soldiers and start being rabble.  Mutinous, traitorous rabble.  And that would be EXTREMELY rare in America's history.

[aquatus1]

regeneratia, on 30 January 2012 - 01:25 AM, said:

The Oath-Keepers agenda crosses political lines, while this issue is, despite it's bipartisan stance, by it's very nature a political issue.

Don't they all?  Never mind, though, I concede the point.  It may be my cyncism showing.

Quote

Did you not view the website? Did you not view how they support their arguments? No problem, take a little time for it. ,**CUT**, See just how they support their arguments.

I have been aware of the Oathkeepers since before they were even a thing.  I even had a chance to briefly meet and speak to Stewart Rhodes shortly after he founded the Oathkeepers.  I was very impressed by the amount of thought he put into this.  I had my questions about some of the orders he had listed a month ago, but he was able and willing to explain his reasons (unfortunately, we only spoke for about 15 minutes, as he had a radio show or something along those lines, to attend).  Like many exceptional leaders, he is smart, approachable, and intelligent.

And then we have his followers...

Quote

**PASTE**  Go to you tube and see the interviews, ... if there are any.

One of the things that Rhodes showed particular distaste for, and apparently still does, when one reads his recent articles, are the blind believers.  Rhodes is not looking for blind followers.  He does not want supporters who can only recite the 10 unlawful orders anymore than he wants opponents who can only cite the ten general orders.  What he wants are people who are capable of reasoning and thinking through why an order is unlawful.  In particular, he is eager to distance himself from people who are so biased in their views that in their eagerness they make rather unthinking statements like the above.  It is those sorts of comments that make him cringe whenever they are associated with his group, because, frankly, they do far more harm to his mission than good.

Quote

"Don't be a tool of oppression to your own people." Stewart Rhodes

"Don't be a tool."--Aquatus1

[regeneratia]

and then, on 30 January 2012 - 03:11 AM, said:

Wow, that's deep.  And probably true up to a point. War never has been a very nice occupation. But we keep having them just the same and I think it's because human nature is just flawed in a very deep way.  Some people think there are NO just wars.  Nothing worth fighting for and anyone who does fight is evil.  People who join the military don't often fall into such a category.  I think the American military are the best trained and usually the most humane of war fighters.  I don't see some dark cabal in the ether manipulating our forces against us but anything is possible I guess...
One thing I do know for certain is that when soldiers start planning in advance which orders they will or won't obey they stop being soldiers and start being rabble.  Mutinous, traitorous rabble.  And that would be EXTREMELY rare in America's history.

I disagree with you totally. Since soldiers literally and functionally place oaths on protecting the US Constitution, those who refuse orders that go against the US Constitution are loterally doing their job.
Do you remember the gun confiscation following Katrina? It was totally against the Constitution. AND it took the strange NRA one full day to protest it. It was started by bored Blackwater employees down there without invitation. They starting shooting trash that was around them, and the use of THEIR firearms started the entire confiscation process. (The link to where you can find what I just related: http://www.amazon.co...y/dp/1560259795 LOL, you will have to buy, borrow or steal the book and read it to find the source. Hey fellas, I read real books. Do you?)

Of course, we know how extremely vacillating a soldiers' oath can be when it comes to obeying outrageous orders, if the defacement of the US Air Force pledge was any indication of how those oaths are honored, ... defaced at the time I was there, with a AF General (Star Star Star) that I personally know giving my little group a tour.

I think American freedoms are worth fighting for.
I don't think that fiber optic hubs (the new tower of Babel that we are not supposed to know about, and all the silly skits over communication contracts) or cheap oil is worth ... oh, ... say, ...  four hundred thousand lives or the longest US involvement in a war the US has ever experienced as a nation.

I totally disagree with you. I support the Oath-Keepers and have placed info on them in many different places tonight. You don't think I would only deliver this news here? LOL!!

Edited by regeneratia, 30 January 2012 - 06:22 AM.

[regeneratia]

Your cynicism is frequently showing, darling. I anticipated it. There were no surprises here. You jumped right on my post, shortly after it was posted. That was no surprise either.

I am that person who is one who might make him cringe, since I can never belong to his group. I don't qualify for it. However, my objectives for the post are to reach those who qualify who don't know about his group but have similar values. I want to get the word out.

For those of you who are reading my posts, do not misunderstand my motivations. I merely here to inform.
I do not belong to the Oath-keepers. I do not qualify for them.

But I am sympathetic to their cause, for much of the cause is directly addressing my long-time questioning on why the US armed forces did not take a stand against the Patriot Act and the NDAA and all other US Constitutional-diminishing domestic acts against our country. For so long, I have been questioning why, why, why did the members of the Armed Forces NOT DO SOMETHING to protect the US Constitutionn from the domestic enemies our current US Congress seems to be at this point in time.

For all you UM spies, know this:
I support the US Constitution and the US Bill of Rights. I would die to maintain them.
Add me to the list of terrorists because I love the US Constitution and the US Bill of Rights. Detain me without time limits, without the right to trial or legal support. Label this red-blooded American a terrorist because I love this country more than I love our present power-mongering government, a government founded by the People, For the People, Of the People.

Aquatus, I have no way of knowing if you lie. Frankly, I do not take you at your word, and probably never will. My UM history with you does not reassure me that you are on the up-and-up or truthful. I find You take your own meager power way too seriously.

aquatus1, on 30 January 2012 - 04:02 AM, said:

Don't they all?  Never mind, though, I concede the point.  It may be my cyncism showing.



I have been aware of the Oathkeepers since before they were even a thing.  I even had a chance to briefly meet and speak to Stewart Rhodes shortly after he founded the Oathkeepers.  I was very impressed by the amount of thought he put into this.  I had my questions about some of the orders he had listed a month ago, but he was able and willing to explain his reasons (unfortunately, we only spoke for about 15 minutes, as he had a radio show or something along those lines, to attend).  Like many exceptional leaders, he is smart, approachable, and intelligent.

And then we have his followers...



One of the things that Rhodes showed particular distaste for, and apparently still does, when one reads his recent articles, are the blind believers.  Rhodes is not looking for blind followers.  He does not want supporters who can only recite the 10 unlawful orders anymore than he wants opponents who can only cite the ten general orders.  What he wants are people who are capable of reasoning and thinking through why an order is unlawful.  In particular, he is eager to distance himself from people who are so biased in their views that in their eagerness they make rather unthinking statements like the above.  It is those sorts of comments that make him cringe whenever they are associated with his group, because, frankly, they do far more harm to his mission than good.



"Don't be a tool."--Aquatus1

Edited by regeneratia, 30 January 2012 - 06:41 AM.

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

Perhaps if people like these, whose sincerity I do not doubt, would stop referring to the Nazis at every opportunity, people might not go   and might actually listen to them ...

"We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext. ... Whenever a government interns its own people, it treats them like an occupied enemy population. Oppressive governments often use the internment of women and children to break the will of the men fighting for their liberty – as was done to the Boers, to the Jewish resisters in the Warsaw Ghetto, and to the Chechens, for example."

Oh no, not the FEMA Camps again.  

[aquatus1]

regeneratia, on 30 January 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:

Your cynicism is frequently showing, darling. I anticipated it. There were no surprises here. You jumped right on my post, shortly after it was posted. That was no surprise either.

I imagine not.  I always post in the morning and in the afternoon.

Quote

I am that person who is one who might make him cringe, since I can never belong to his group. I don't qualify for it. However, my objectives for the post are to reach those who qualify who don't know about his group but have similar values. I want to get the word out.

My statement stands.

Quote

For those of you who are reading my posts, do not misunderstand my motivations. I merely here to inform.
I do not belong to the Oath-keepers. I do not qualify for them.

Unfortunately, you do.  They don't have very strict entry requirements.  Basically, you have to be able to pay whatever entry fee you choose.

Quote

But I am sympathetic to their cause, for much of the cause is directly addressing my long-time questioning on why the US armed forces did not take a stand against the Patriot Act and the NDAA and all other US Constitutional-diminishing domestic acts against our country. For so long, I have been questioning why, why, why did the members of the Armed Forces NOT DO SOMETHING to protect the US Constitutionn from the domestic enemies our current US Congress seems to be at this point in time.

Same reasons pretty much everyone else didn't.  Most people understand them in context and don't see a danger.  A smaller percentage grumble about it, but aren't motivated enough to actually do anything.  A select view take action, in that they study, question, and join groups such as the above.

Basically, military people do the same thing that ordinary people do, except that it is a bit harder to accuse them of being cowards when they don't agree with a given viewpoint.

Quote

For all you UM spies, know this:
I support the US Constitution and the US Bill of Rights. I would die to maintain them.
Add me to the list of terrorists because I love the US Constitution and the US Bill of Rights. Detain me without time limits, without the right to trial or legal support. Label this red-blooded American a terrorist because I love this country more than I love our present power-mongering government, a government founded by the People, For the People, Of the People.

Yeaaah...who is it, again, who is calling you all these things?

Anyone?

Quote

Aquatus, I have no way of knowing if you lie. Frankly, I do not take you at your word, and probably never will.

It matters very little.  The things I claim are either quite easy to verify or, occasionally, point out directly the issue at hand.  There is no need to trust me, nor should you.  After all, even though you have absolutely no evidence, support, or logic, to decide that I am some sort of government spy, you could still be correct out of sheer coincidence.

Alternatively, you can simply assure yourself that I am not trustworthy (despite never asking for your trust), that I am inherently incorrect (instead of verifying correctness), and that I do not know anything about the topic at hand because...well, let's face it, you only discovered the topic recently, so how could anyone on the other side know about it?

Here is an interesting question:  Are you capable of explaining the reasoning behind the Unlawful Orders?  Not the actual orders themselves, but the reason why those specific ones are the most significant?

You don't have to answer here.  It is a personal question.  However, I am willing to bet that, even before getting to this sentence here, the first answer that popped in your head was "Of Course!".

Quote

My UM history with you does not reassure me that you are on the up-and-up or truthful. I find You take your own meager power way too seriously.

You certainly have a right to your opinion.

Notice that when I stated how unthinking claims hurt the mission more than help, I gave an actual example, as well as an explanation, and used neutral language rather than personal accusations?

[preacherman76]

I fully support the oath keepers. I wish more took thier oaths to the constitution seriously. Out of all 3 branches there is only a small handful of folks who do stay within the confines of constitutional powers. Its good to know that there are men and women in our military and other forces, that understand ther is such a thing as domestic enemies. Between groups like the oath keepers, and seeing Ron Paul get more money from the military then the others combined gives me some hope if that day ever comes, many of them will have our backs.

[Babe Ruth]

regeneratia, on 30 January 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

For years now, I have wondered why our US military has not taken a stand against the deliberate destruction of the US Bill of Rights and US Constitution by our current US Congressmen, Bush The Stupider and Obama. And I have found a group of US service members who are indeed taking a stand on this issue.


Are you ready to stand up and defend the US Constitution and the US Bill of Rights?

Are you aware that there are police and soldiers that are unwilling to bypass the provisions in the US Constitution and will protect the US Bill of Rights?

Know your rights!

What are you going to do to take a stand against what is happening to our glorious US Constitution and our US Bill of Rights?
What do you think of this glorious group of brave service people?

Excellent post!  

It is good to hear of this group.  I think I saw the leader, a Sheriff from somewhere (Richard?) on TV.

It's good to know there are men and women like this in service.

[Englishgent]

regeneratia, on 30 January 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

I disagree with you totally. Since soldiers literally and functionally place oaths on protecting the US Constitution, those who refuse orders that go against the US Constitution are loterally doing their job.
Do you remember the gun confiscation following Katrina? It was totally against the Constitution. AND it took the strange NRA one full day to protest it. It was started by bored Blackwater employees down there without invitation. They starting shooting trash that was around them, and the use of THEIR firearms started the entire confiscation process. (The link to where you can find what I just related: http://www.amazon.co...y/dp/1560259795 LOL, you will have to buy, borrow or steal the book and read it to find the source. Hey fellas, I read real books. Do you?)

Of course, we know how extremely vacillating a soldiers' oath can be when it comes to obeying outrageous orders, if the defacement of the US Air Force pledge was any indication of how those oaths are honored, ... defaced at the time I was there, with a AF General (Star Star Star) that I personally know giving my little group a tour.

I think American freedoms are worth fighting for.
I don't think that fiber optic hubs (the new tower of Babel that we are not supposed to know about, and all the silly skits over communication contracts) or cheap oil is worth ... oh, ... say, ...  four hundred thousand lives or the longest US involvement in a war the US has ever experienced as a nation.

I totally disagree with you. I support the Oath-Keepers and have placed info on them in many different places tonight. You don't think I would only deliver this news here? LOL!!

Oh dear, were they going to confiscate your little guns?....bored, so they started shooting trash?.....and what would have happened if a child had got in the way of a stay bullet?  IMO they should confiscate ALL your guns!
I am sure some from your organisation are genuine people wanting to preserve certain rights, but maybe you chose the wrong one to dipslay here'   And no, i am not an american, just an outsider looking in.