Atheism is not a religion

[Imaginarynumber1]

In his final New Rule of the night, Bill Maher disputed the idea thrown out by some that atheism is a religion. It’s a refrain you hear from people who can’t stand both groups and believe that dogma is dogma, plain and simple, but Maher argued that treating atheism like a religion would be like saying “abstinence is a sex position.Read more...

I'm constantly seeing people on this forum claim that atheism is a religion. Those of us that do not believe in any gods would disagree with that statement.

I just saw this on Real Time with Bill Maher as part of his New Rules segment and thought I would share it as it pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter.

The video is at the bottom of the page. I could not find a version that I could embed. Language warning for those that are concerned about such things.

[Alienated Being]

Atheism is defined with logic, whilst religion is defined by ignorance.

[Imaginarynumber1]

Atheism is defined with logic, whilst religion is defined by ignorance.

A willful ignorance, no less.

[+Link of Hyrule]

I agree that atheism is not a religion, but do you think that some atheists can elevate their belief in no gods to the point that it might carry quite a lot of elements that might be considered "religious".

For example, if a Christian meets with other Christians regularly on a set day of the week, they listen to a Christian give a talk about Christian belief, they hand out a collection plate, would you consider this an example of "church"? In the same vein, if an atheist decides to meet regularly with a group of atheists as part of an organisation, they hear lecturers from prominent atheists about science, logic, or humanism. Then they hand out a collection box for people to donate to help pay for the rent of the community hall and appearance fee of the speaker. Would this be considered a form of "atheist church"?

Another example is that churches sometimes run "evangelism seminars" for their members to learn how to answer common questions aimed at Christianity. The technical term is "apologetics", and often deals with answering the common arguments against Christianity. Some atheist organisations put up on their website their own brand of apologetics - how to answer common questions that religious people have about atheism. Would this be considered a form of "atheist apologetics"?

Some atheists want to actively promote atheism as the right path, telling religious people that they are wrong, and that they should stop believing in imaginary friends and sky fairies. Is this any different to "Repent and turn to the Lord Jesus" - a form of "atheist proselytising".

As I said, none of this makes atheism a religion. But if someone goes to atheist church, learns atheist apologetics, and proselytises atheism, then they could be said to be incorporated religious elements into their idea of atheism. This would be even more true of certain views of atheism if a person draws heavily on humanist authors for their moral code (much like Christians draw on the Bible for their moral code).

Just a few thoughts,

~ PA

[Imaginarynumber1]

I agree that atheism is not a religion, but do you think that some atheists can elevate their belief in no gods to the point that it might carry quite a lot of elements that might be considered "religious".

For example, if a Christian meets with other Christians regularly on a set day of the week, they listen to a Christian give a talk about Christian belief, they hand out a collection plate, would you consider this an example of "church"? In the same vein, if an atheist decides to meet regularly with a group of atheists as part of an organisation, they hear lecturers from prominent atheists about science, logic, or humanism. Then they hand out a collection box for people to donate to help pay for the rent of the community hall and appearance fee of the speaker. Would this be considered a form of "atheist church"?

Another example is that churches sometimes run "evangelism seminars" for their members to learn how to answer common questions aimed at Christianity. The technical term is "apologetics", and often deals with answering the common arguments against Christianity. Some atheist organisations put up on their website their own brand of apologetics - how to answer common questions that religious people have about atheism. Would this be considered a form of "atheist apologetics"?

Some atheists want to actively promote atheism as the right path, telling religious people that they are wrong, and that they should stop believing in imaginary friends and sky fairies. Is this any different to "Repent and turn to the Lord Jesus" - a form of "atheist proselytising".

As I said, none of this makes atheism a religion. But if someone goes to atheist church, learns atheist apologetics, and proselytises atheism, then they could be said to be incorporated religious elements into their idea of atheism. This would be even more true of certain views of atheism if a person draws heavily on humanist authors for their moral code (much like Christians draw on the Bible for their moral code).

Just a few thoughts,

~ PA

I'm not saying you're wrong and I agree with most of what you say. For me atheist is just something that I am because i don't believe. I personally don't go for all of that. Like Bill Maher says in the video "That's the nice thing about being an atheist. It takes up so little of your time." I have about as much patience for the militant atheists as I do the hardcore fundamentalists.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Imaginarynumber1

[The Silver Thong]

I agree that atheism is not a religion, but do you think that some atheists can elevate their belief in no gods to the point that it might carry quite a lot of elements that might be considered "religious".

~ PA

It is not a belief that there are no gods. It`s a fact that there are no gods to believe in. I do not take my atheism as a belief because it requires none, you and those that believe impose that there is. I find it funny that a christian billboard is ok but anything against is demonic almost.

To say that atheists can`t get together to fight against oppression and then call it a belief system is a sure sighn of a weak religion. It`s an attack on none believers plain and simple and a sure indication that religion will inject it`s supernatural powers into a government system to control those that no longer want to be controled by a supernatural governed religious nightmare.

[The Silver Thong]

I have about as much patience for the militant atheists as I do the hardcore fundamentalists.

I doubt you will ever see a hard core atheist on mainstream tv but damn I still wake up sunday being preached to. At least 10 of my channels are dedicated to god. Tax free none profit jackasses promoting there belief and there own personal opinion on what you should be. If Atheists got the same benifits then hell ya I would become a none profit tax free tv atheist. making a few million a year.

Edited February 4, 2012 by The Silver Thong

[+Link of Hyrule]

I'm not saying you're wrong and I agree with most of what you say. For me atheist is just something that I am because i don't believe. I personally don't go for all of that. Like Bill Maher says in the video "That's the nice thing about being an atheist. It takes up so little of your time." I have about as much patience for the militant atheists as I do the hardcore fundamentalists.

That's fair enough. I guess I am pointing to the "militant" atheist more than just the person who says "there is no proof that a god exists".

[Space Commander Travis]

Theoretically, not, perhaps; but evangelists like Dawky (who's said more than once that his Mission is to lead people away from the path of Ignorance & Superstition and lead them to the Truth of the Blissful world of Scientific Rationality) certainly seem to think it is, don't they.

Edited February 4, 2012 by 747400

[Space Commander Travis]

It is not a belief that there are no gods. It`s a fact that there are no gods to believe in.

oh dear, are you one of the people who say "it's a fact that there are no Extraterrestrials" as well?

[+Link of Hyrule]

It is not a belief that there are no gods. It`s a fact that there are no gods to believe in. I do not take my atheism as a belief because it requires none, you and those that believe impose that there is.

It is a fact to you, that doesn't make it a fact to everyone. Now, if you simply accept that there is no evidence for God, then that is a fair enough statement. If you take it a step further and say that it is a fact that God does not exist then I am going to think of your views as a belief.

I find it funny that a christian billboard is ok but anything against is demonic almost.

If an atheist wants to put out a billboard promoting atheism, that's their choice. I'm just saying that if they did then their world view is moving more towards an affirmative belief in the non-existence of God rather than just the passive affirmation that we have no evidence of God.

To say that atheists can`t get together to fight against oppression and then call it a belief system is a sure sighn of a weak religion. It`s an attack on none believers plain and simple and a sure indication that religion will inject it`s supernatural powers into a government system to control those that no longer want to be controled by a supernatural governed religious nightmare.

I made no mention about oppression or the governmental system, so forgive me if I'm a little confused as to why you bring this up (perhaps you are trying to springboard into US politics, but I didn't mention any of that, and in fact my comments were based on my experience with the Atheist's Foundation of Australia (link))

[The Silver Thong]

Theoretically, not, perhaps; but evangelists like Dawky (who's said more than once that his Mission is to lead people away from the path of Ignorance & Superstition and lead them to the Truth of the Blissful world of Scientific Rationality) certainly seem to think it is, don't they.

Telling someone that god is watching them masterbate in the bathroom is a sin, oh crap what if my dead grandma is watching ahhhhhhhh

The path is not gods but yours. Do with it what you want and fear no wrath.

[The Silver Thong]

oh dear, are you one of the people who say "it's a fact that there are no Extraterrestrials" as well?

God no lol. I absalutly believe that we are not alone. If I believed in a chritian god I would have to say no we are it made in gods image.

[Space Commander Travis]

Telling someone that god is watching them masterbate in the bathroom is a sin, oh crap what if my dead grandma is watching ahhhhhhhh

The path is not gods but yours. Do with it what you want and fear no wrath.

Er.... I think the only thing i can say, is, "Er, sorry, what?". I think I've lost you here. .... *backs away slowly*

[The Silver Thong]

It is a fact to you, that doesn't make it a fact to everyone. Now, if you simply accept that there is no evidence for God, then that is a fair enough statement. If you take it a step further and say that it is a fact that God does not exist then I am going to think of your views as a belief.

If an atheist wants to put out a billboard promoting atheism, that's their choice. I'm just saying that if they did then their world view is moving more towards an affirmative belief in the non-existence of God rather than just the passive affirmation that we have no evidence of God.

I made no mention about oppression or the governmental system, so forgive me if I'm a little confused as to why you bring this up (perhaps you are trying to springboard into US politics, but I didn't mention any of that, and in fact my comments were based on my experience with the Atheist's Foundation of Australia (link))

The fact remains and always will that any proof of any god will remain nothing more then a mystical wish created by us, man created god. Until there is something why. I can be honest in saying I would like there to be something more and a godish type thing but.... I can`t allow myself to let wishes determine.

No if an atheist organization decides to point out something they have the same right and it`s not backed by a church so they do it because they may feel organized religion is oppressing them. To do such as a group they may feel safer against persicution. You have to admit religion works like a pack of wolves, more numbers the better chance of a kill.

Religion and politics goes hand in hand, your country my country, Europe and the US. It`s no different then the fundies in the middle east. Try running as a politician in any western nation as an atheist lol. God no matter the flavor dictates.

[The Silver Thong]

Er.... I think the only thing i can say, is, "Er, sorry, what?". I think I've lost you here. .... *backs away slowly*

I was more or less trying to say an all knowing god is creepy. Oh and that it`s a sin and you can go to hell for m********ing.

Edited February 4, 2012 by The Silver Thong

[Space Commander Travis]

The fact remains and always will that any proof of any god will remain nothing more then a mystical wish created by us, man created god. Until there is something why. I can be honest in saying I would like there to be something more and a godish type thing but.... I can`t allow myself to let wishes determine.

No if an atheist organization decides to point out something they have the same right and it`s not backed by a church so they do it because they may feel organized religion is oppressing them. To do such as a group they may feel safer against persicution. You have to admit religion works like a pack of wolves, more numbers the better chance of a kill.

Religion and politics goes hand in hand, your country my country, Europe and the US. It`s no different then the fundies in the middle east. Try running as a politician in any western nation as an atheist lol. God no matter the flavor dictates.

try running as a politician as a professed Christian in most of western Europe, and either no one would take no notice, or it would positively harm your chances. The kind of loony far-right ultra-fundamentalism that people always argue is representative of religious belief as a whole is very much a very American, or at any rate North American, phenomenon.

[The Silver Thong]

try running as a politician as a professed Christian in most of western Europe, and either no one would take no notice, or it would positively harm your chances. The kind of loony far-right ultra-fundamentalism that people always argue is representative of religious belief as a whole is very much a very American, or at any rate North American, phenomenon.

So it should be easy to post an atheist politician that came to ranks in western Europe. Or can to this day. edit Please don`t say Hitler as he was not by far an atheist.

Ok Maybe Stalin but does that count. He was an atheist but he was about himself not an atheist in it`s true meaning. To many want to lable atheists for agenda as in belief systems. Stalin did what he did for himself.

Atheisim is more about personal resposibility as the others are not

I see your tripple post, not your fault, I had a hard time for mine to post as well.

Edited February 4, 2012 by The Silver Thong

[Space Commander Travis]

So it should be easy to post an atheist politician that came to ranks in western Europe. Please don`t say Hitler as he was not by far an atheist.

Ok Maybe Stalin but does that count. He was an atheist but he was about himself not an atheist in it`s true meaning. To many want to lable atheists for agenda as in belief systems. Stalin did what he did for himself.

Atheisim is more about personal resposibility as the others are not

I see your tripple post, not your fault, I had a hard time for mine to post as well.

I've no idea what the religiosu views, if any, of many prominent Western Politicians may be, since it's such a non-issue that people rarely bother making any mention of it. It's only militant Atheists that tend to think it's important one way or the other.

[The Silver Thong]

I've no idea what the religiosu views, if any, of many prominent Western Politicians may be, since it's such a non-issue that people rarely bother making any mention of it. It's only militant Atheists that tend to think it's important one way or the other.

Your kidding right. Religion plays no part in your part of the world. Wow that would be awsome to have a none religious politician run for office. Oh wait where do you live again.

Militant atheists, oh dear the billions of believers must be shakin in there boots. If atheists scare the believers the believers have the issue not otherwise. You seem to think the billions are at risk lol

Edited February 4, 2012 by The Silver Thong

[Space Commander Travis]

Your kidding right. Religion plays no part in your part of the world. Wow that would be awsome to have a none religious politician run for office. Oh wait where do you live again.

Militant atheists, oh dear the billions of believers must be shakin in there boots. If atheists scare the believers the believers have the issue not otherwise. You seem to think the billions are at risk lol

you really don't think Militant atheists exist? have you seen any book written by Richard Dawky since he gave up science and became a full time atheist evangelist? And no; in a lot of the world, professing any kind of religious belief can be a positive liability. You may not believe it, but then, you may not believe that are militant atheists.

[The Silver Thong]

you really don't think Militant atheists exist? have you seen any book written by Richard Dawky since he gave up science and became a full time atheist evangelist? And no; in a lot of the world, professing any kind of religious belief can be a positive liability. You may not believe it, but then, you may not believe that are militant atheists.

I guess I have failed to expand that my belief or lack of does not include the supernatural. If one gives up science so be it I`ll take there kidneys in a transplant. Bet ya a buck god didn`t think I could pull the ace card.

Yes there are militant everything, hell i have a girl at work that is a Jenny Craig worshiper militant. So WHAT. We are not talking about was is impossible but what is. So far the god bangers are the militants. Or can you post me a killing in the name of no god.

edit ment kidney

Edited February 4, 2012 by The Silver Thong

[The Silver Thong]

so.

Edited February 4, 2012 by The Silver Thong

[Space Commander Travis]

I guess I have failed to expand that my belief or lack of does not include the supernatural. If one gives up science so be it I`ll take there kidneys in a transplant. Bet ya a buck god didn`t think I could pull the ace card.

Yes there are militant everything, hell i have a girl at work that is a Jenny Craig worshiper militant. So WHAT. We are not talking about was is impossible but what is. So far the god bangers are the militants. Or can you post me a killing in the name of no god.

You already mentioned one with the Russian Revolution; but I might also add Pol Pot's Cambodia, Mao Tse Tung's Chinese Revolution ....

[The Silver Thong]

You already mentioned one with the Russian Revolution; but I might also add Pol Pot's Cambodia, Mao Tse Tung's Chinese Revolution ....

You think that was about athiesim. It was not. It was about raising onself to a god status amoung there own people. Those folks you mention were all about making there own self a god to the people. Another lie. Nothing to due with atheisim.

Kim what`s his pickle in NK did the same. Has nothing to do with atheisim

Self worship is not atheisim.

By the way the worlds largest temple is in Cambodia.

Edited February 4, 2012 by The Silver Thong