58 replies to this topic

[Mekorig]

expandmymind, on 08 February 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

Anyone else think Pseudo Intellectual has been reincarnated?

Not again.  

[shaddow134]

Yamato, on 09 February 2012 - 04:17 AM, said:

It's even worse than that.  We can't even get the context of many sound bytes right when translating from English to English.  The gang of liars known as the US media is already proven to butcher the meaning of rhetoric coming out of Iran in whatever way they can to sell the hapless dupes their war.

The attitude this story carries is rife with double standard as usual.  As if, Iran doesn't have a right to weapons, doesn't have a right to self-defense, doesn't have a right to attack anyone, doesn't have a right to arm other people that someone doesn't politically agree with.   We presume all of these rights for ourselves and those we politically agree with, so should they.  Everyone who really wants to squabble over this hypocritical nonsense should go get suited up and get themselves killed over it; there's some self-responsibility and a silly little conflict I would actually endorse for once.  It's always way too damned convenient when it's someone else's blood and someone else's money.

Every country has a right to defend it's self including Iran,the rhetoric we see now coming from the Mullahs is what it is and nothing more.Sending the F16's in is not the way forward here,would the U.S,the UK and the EEC be able to stomach the massive casualties there would be if there was another conflict in the Middle East?,Iran would be no walk in the park.

How you deal with two countries that have an historical hatred for each other?,i do not know.As there seems to be no chance of either side giving concession to the other.

[wittyusernamefailed]

How about this. We go all Old School, Netanyahu vs. Khamenei in a one on one, hand to hand DEATHBATTLE!!!!!!!!!!!! Winner makes policy.

Edited by wittyusernamefailed, 16 February 2012 - 09:24 PM.

[hetrodoxly]

The whole region should be supplied with short range nuclear missiles.

[and then]

shaddow134, on 16 February 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

Every country has a right to defend it's self including Iran,the rhetoric we see now coming from the Mullahs is what it is and nothing more.Sending the F16's in is not the way forward here,would the U.S,the UK and the EEC be able to stomach the massive casualties there would be if there was another conflict in the Middle East?,Iran would be no walk in the park.

How you deal with two countries that have an historical hatred for each other?,i do not know.As there seems to be no chance of either side giving concession to the other.

Iran could be substantially degraded with airpower alone.  There is no need for a ground invasion nor would one be successful. The only way for Iran's nuclear program to be permanently stopped is for the government there to decide not to pursue them.  That means new leaders and that means a revolution.  Since we blew the chance to help with that in '09 the only solution for now is short term crippling of their nuke program.  And I submit that only a nation demonstrably committed to peace and restraint should have a "right" to nuclear weapons.  Wail and howl over Israel all you want to but there is no proof they have ever gone to war except to defend themselves and they have only threatened use of their nuclear weapons when they were in danger of being over run in '73 after they were attacked by Egypt,Syria and Jordan.  Iran  is playing a chess game with the world and so far they're in control.  If they win it's going to change everything in the region for the worse.

[ninjadude]

and then, on 17 February 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

  And I submit that only a nation demonstrably committed to peace and restraint should have a "right" to nuclear weapons.  

Gee that about counts out every one of the nuclear club. Including the US.

[The New Richard Nixon]

Ok bets please, Israel Hitler Vs Iran Stalin, choose!!!!
I wish both countries should have a tea party.

[and then]

ninjadude, on 17 February 2012 - 04:08 AM, said:

Gee that about counts out every one of the nuclear club. Including the US.

I don't agree on that.  With the possible exception of Pakistan, all the nuke club nations have shown restraint in dealing with issues of military force. None of them even threaten the use of nukes.  Pakistan could become a worse nightmare than Iran overnight if the ISI led a coup against the civilian government.
To clarify my point - I think Iran doesn't have the right under it's current government to possess nuclear weapons because they foment terror around the globe.  They publicly acknowledge doing so and state they will gladly do so in the future.  To advocate for them to have a NUCLEAR ARSENAL is mindless.  Anyone who does so is at best silly and at worst, traitorous to the US.  This isn't simple political disagreement, this is potential death on a scale so massive that it boggles the mind.

[wittyusernamefailed]

Somehow I don't think that counting on "MAD", is the best idea when talking about a country that glorifies suicide, seeing the logical thought process would be "if we nuke Israel, Saudi Arabia, or any other "non-believer" and in turn get vaporized; then the whole country would be Martyrs and get the whole virgin gig." Our experiences with the Soviet Union can not be a proper benchmark for what a nuclear Iran would be like.

[ninjadude]

This intense Islamaphobia and Iran hatred is exactly 100 percent identical to what the war hawks did with Iraq. And gee let's see how well that turned out?

[and then]

ninjadude, on 18 February 2012 - 01:57 AM, said:

This intense Islamaphobia and Iran hatred is exactly 100 percent identical to what the war hawks did with Iraq. And gee let's see how well that turned out?

I feel no need to convince you in this Ninjadude because I believe that you would truly not care if Iran got the Bomb.  I begin to wonder if you would care even if they used it, as long as it didn't explode in your hometown.  BTW a phobia is by definition an irrational fear.  If an entity has already murdered 3000 of your citizens then fear of that entity doing so again seems completely reasonable to me.  As far as hating Iran - not so.  I've known a couple of Iranians and thought very highly of them.  The leadership there kills people just like them who have the temerity to speak out or ask for freedom.  If our president had been willing to fund the protesters in 2009 in even a minimal way, regime change might have been well underway.  That arrogant SOB decided to "engage" with the mullocracy and here we stand 2 years later with the bombs being loaded on the aircraft.  Today there is news that a new letter from Iran will probably lead to yet more wasted time by these master chessmen.

[ninjadude]

and then, on 18 February 2012 - 02:53 AM, said:

I feel no need to convince you in this Ninjadude because I believe that you would truly not care if Iran got the Bomb.  I begin to wonder if you would care even if they used it, as long as it didn't explode in your hometown.  BTW a phobia is by definition an irrational fear.  If an entity has already murdered 3000 of your citizens then fear of that entity doing so again seems completely reasonable to me.  As far as hating Iran - not so.  I've known a couple of Iranians and thought very highly of them.  The leadership there kills people just like them who have the temerity to speak out or ask for freedom.  If our president had been willing to fund the protesters in 2009 in even a minimal way, regime change might have been well underway.  That arrogant SOB decided to "engage" with the mullocracy and here we stand 2 years later with the bombs being loaded on the aircraft.  Today there is news that a new letter from Iran will probably lead to yet more wasted time by these master chessmen.

What makes you think IRAN had anything to do with 911? What bombs are being loaded on aircraft? Iran is no threat to the US. It seems you truly do not care that ISRAEL has the Bomb. Or that they could decide to use it in Iran. Even as a first strike due to their insane paranoia. It's their nail waiting for a hammer. You probably would not even care. And they have gotten a bunch of Americans thinking the same way. Funding the protestors? are you even serious? Very irrational.

Talking about peace is never a wasted exercise..Do you even read the bible that is the most likely source of your religious beliefs?

Edited by ninjadude, 18 February 2012 - 09:59 PM.

[and then]

ninjadude, on 18 February 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

What makes you think IRAN had anything to do with 911? What bombs are being loaded on aircraft? Iran is no threat to the US. It seems you truly do not care that ISRAEL has the Bomb. Or that they could decide to use it in Iran. Even as a first strike due to their insane paranoia. It's their nail waiting for a hammer. You probably would not even care. And they have gotten a bunch of Americans thinking the same way. Funding the protestors? are you even serious? Very irrational.

Talking about peace is never a wasted exercise..Do you even read the bible that is the most likely source of your religious beliefs?

The 911 reference was regarding your accusation that I irrationally fear Islamists. I made no statement ever that Tehran was proven to be involved in 911. I sleep well at night knowing Israel has the bomb.  They've had it since about'67 and never used it.  And why would it be "very irrational" to fund protesters against a regime that kills them in the streets and steals elections from them?  I agree with you that advocating for peace is never a waste of time unless your enemy is using that time to position themselves to kill you.  
I read the bible regularly.  I fall short of it's standards just as regularly.  Not sure when the issue became me...  
If you can drop your aura of partisanship for even a moment I have a serious and simple question for you.  IF you are wrong and Iran is about to build a bomb is there anything you would approve of to stop them?  Do you honestly believe that they would be no more threat than any other current nuclear State?

[ninjadude]

and then, on 18 February 2012 - 10:46 PM, said:

If you can drop your aura of partisanship for even a moment I have a serious and simple question for you.  IF you are wrong and Iran is about to build a bomb is there anything you would approve of to stop them?  Do you honestly believe that they would be no more threat than any other current nuclear State?

As with the other posters in the other thread, it's probably inevitable. I would NOT approve of military action to stop it. Negotiation and sanctions are doing some work. They are a signatory to the NPT. I would also attempt to get Israel to sign the NPT with negotiation and withholding aid. Would Iran be more a threat? maybe, maybe not. Iran has not attacked anyone. It's said they support terrorist organizations. Gee, so does the US to aid our interests. Israel even assassinates Iranian scientists.

You  seem to see all of Islam as a threat to your existence and by extension, Iran being somehow the leader of that threat. I get you. And maybe if you live in NYC or something I can see where that comes from. But to me, that's irrational. I don't have that irrational fear driving my analysis of the situation. I can see the history of the same sort of rhetoric that was used about Iraq having WMD's and being the same kind of visceral threat. Now, maybe you think the Iraq war was a good thing. I know some neocons do. But America was misled into that war and I personally do not want it done again. If we're going to bomb Iran to test out our new BL-92 bunker buster bombs, then be honest and say that. The American people will rightly tell the government were to get off.

[Yamato]

Erikl, on 07 February 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:

That might well be, but he's still the supreme leader of Iran. The ones who claimed Ahmadinejad has no real power in Iran and so his rants, as barbaric as they are, mean nothing, need to revise at it seems this line of genocidal nazi-like thinking runs all the way to the top.

And what "barbaric rant" would that be?  Is it the one that referenced the end of Israel's regime again?  We're hard at work trying to end our regime here in the US too.  It's called politics, not barbarism.  Since you aren't honest enough to admit the solution to your country's problem is democracy as the barbaric Ahmadinejad said in his rant, you think democracy is barbaric.  You think that a regime should never end.  You advocate dictatorship.  Bugger that.