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Jacques Vallee: Implications of UFO Phenomena


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#1    karl 12

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 11:17 PM

Thought this was a pretty darn interesting 'Thinking Allowed' interview with Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove and Jacques Vallee who shares his thoughts about the true nature of the UFO phenomenon, physical trace evidence and physiological effects on UFO witnesses -he also makes some interesting comments about his investigations in Brazil (think it's the Colares case) and how UFO reports in the US are indistinguishable from other reports around the world.

There's also a rare clip here where he discusses historical/religious sightings and how there may be more to the UFO subject than just a physical component.


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Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove interviews Dr. Jacques Vallée on the subject of UFOs. Vallée is a computer scientist who contributed greatly to the core architecture of ARPANET (the military prototype of the Internet) and an astronomer who developed the first digital map of Mars for NASA. In the late 1960s he was brought aboard to assist Dr. J. Allen Hynek of Northwestern University on the public USAF investigation of UFOs. Together with Hynek, he concluded that the USAF was responsible for obstructing a proper investigation of the phenomenon. He continued to pursue UFO research independently. He was Steven Spielberg's model for the French scientist in "Close Encounters of the Third Kind."


E-Books:

Passport to Magonia - On UFOs, Folklore, and Parallel Worlds (pdf)    
Dimensions (pdf)
Forbidden science: journals, 1957-1969


#2    1963

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 03:35 AM

Hi Karl!

Yes it is a n interesting interview!...and I am fully aware of the stature that  Jacques Vallee commands in the UFO genre. And is held in high esteem by multitudes of ETH/UFO scholars ... yourself included.
I also freely admit that the man has a colossal amount of experience and appears to have an intellect to match anyone's !

However..I feel compelled to express my reservations about the man's conclusions , or should I say suggestions as to the origin of the phenomena.
His assertion that perhaps there is some unknown intelligence (possibly our own collective subconscious ) that is purposely directing a pathway on to our psyche in order to control or guide our actions ...seems a couple of steps too far me to climb my friend!
And why is he so reticent to offer his opinions as to what end this is being done?...is it benevolence or malevolence?
There is no denying that the man has done a sterling job in his tireless efforts to investigate and collate a multitude of reports,...but as I have said before, ..the tangent that he seems to have gone off on, in my mind belongs to the 'incredibly-wild theory department'!

But then...it's only my opinion!


Cheers buddy.

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.”

#3    zoser

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 02:46 PM

Interesting interview; thanks for sharing.

He's clearly taking the subject extremely seriously and trying to find the bridge between orthodox and unorthordox science.  We need more like him.

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#4    quillius

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 09:32 AM

yes, its always interesting to see different approaches to the subject.

Better than instant dismissal.

:tu:


#5    psyche101

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 01:21 AM

View Postquillius, on 13 February 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

yes, its always interesting to see different approaches to the subject.

Better than instant dismissal.

:tu:


Hi Quillius

Not many approaches are more diverse than this! But I find this ideal fascinating, 2D universes, and additional dimensions all at one. What I find intriguing about his proposals is the multiverse hypotheses that he puts forward. As we know, inflation created this Universe with a big bang, and that the primary element was hydrogen. What is the big bang created a completely different primary element? What would the universe look like? What woud the physics be like?

I find that an intriguing question.

Cheers.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#6    quillius

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 08:52 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 14 February 2012 - 01:21 AM, said:

Hi Quillius

Not many approaches are more diverse than this! But I find this ideal fascinating, 2D universes, and additional dimensions all at one. What I find intriguing about his proposals is the multiverse hypotheses that he puts forward. As we know, inflation created this Universe with a big bang, and that the primary element was hydrogen. What is the big bang created a completely different primary element? What would the universe look like? What woud the physics be like?

I find that an intriguing question.

Cheers.

Yes it is intriguing to ponder. I must admit it is quite a complex approach to fully digest on one sitting alone.  :geek:


#7    scowl

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:46 PM

As UFOlogy enters its sixth decade with no real answers, investigators are coming up with ever more elaborate theories as to why they haven't made any measurable progress in understanding the phenomena.

It started off with aliens from other planets flying around in advanced spaceships to study our world. Then they started sucking the blood out of our cattle. It then went to a world government conspiracy to prevent people from discovering their existence. Now our former aliens have god-like powers to travel through dimensions and defy our understanding of physics.

I feel sorry for Vallee. He's been doing this for decades. It must be frustrating to only propose theory after theory, year after year, and never be able to come to a conclusion.


#8    psyche101

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 01:11 AM

View Postquillius, on 14 February 2012 - 08:52 AM, said:

Yes it is intriguing to ponder. I must admit it is quite a complex approach to fully digest on one sitting alone.  :geek:


I would say impossible :D I have been trying to understand the fellow for some years now, and he still makes me read everything twice. But when you get what he is trying to get across, it's usually so far from the norm that one cannot help but become intrigued. I really like the theory of Multiverses, it strikes me as more than plausible, I would have to call Multivereses logical.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#9    psyche101

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 01:12 AM

View Postscowl, on 14 February 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

As UFOlogy enters its sixth decade with no real answers, investigators are coming up with ever more elaborate theories as to why they haven't made any measurable progress in understanding the phenomena.

It started off with aliens from other planets flying around in advanced spaceships to study our world. Then they started sucking the blood out of our cattle. It then went to a world government conspiracy to prevent people from discovering their existence. Now our former aliens have god-like powers to travel through dimensions and defy our understanding of physics.

I feel sorry for Vallee. He's been doing this for decades. It must be frustrating to only propose theory after theory, year after year, and never be able to come to a conclusion.


I guess if he gets bored he could always jump into quantum mechanics and make stuff up there! :D

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#10    quillius

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:43 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 15 February 2012 - 01:11 AM, said:

I would say impossible :D I have been trying to understand the fellow for some years now, and he still makes me read everything twice. But when you get what he is trying to get across, it's usually so far from the norm that one cannot help but become intrigued. I really like the theory of Multiverses, it strikes me as more than plausible, I would have to call Multivereses logical.

you have done well if twice was enough :)

I agree multiverses is potentially a very viable theory.


#11    karl 12

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 08:12 PM

Thanks for the replies and it's certainly some interesting speculation, I suppose it's best to try and keep a completely open mind with the UFO subject, especially when it comes to 'origin' and Jacques Vallee makes some other intriguing points below about 'the extra-dimensional hypothesis':


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In his recent autobiographical book, Forbidden Science, Vallee summed up his views about the provenance of UFOs, a viewpoint that he's developed through decades of research: "The UFO Phenomenon exists. It has been with us throughout history. It is physical in nature and it remains unexplained in terms of contemporary science. It represents a level of consciousness that we have not yet recognized, and which is able to manipulate dimensions beyond time and space as we understand them." So much for anti-gravity-powered starships ferrying Big Brothers from outer space. Vallee thinks UFOs are likely "windows" to other dimensions manipulated by intelligent, often mischievous, always enigmatic beings we have yet to understand.

link



Jacques Vallee also mentions 'Jungian archetypes' and here's what the psychologist had to say about the UFO subject in in 1954 and 1967:


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"A purely psychological explanation is ruled out... the discs show signs of intelligent guidance, by quasi-human pilots... the authorities in possession of important information should not hesitate to enlighten the public as soon and as completely as possible."
"Dr. Carl Jung on Unidentified Flying Objects," Flying Saucer Review, Vol. 1, No. 2, 1955.


"It remains an established fact, supported by numerous observations, that UFOs have not only been seen visually but have also been picked up on the radar screen and have left traces on the photographic plate."
"A Fresh Look at Flying Saucers," Time, August 4, 1967.

Cheers.


#12    Teslasparkgap

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:13 PM

I found some strange UFOs in France:
http://www.bing.com/search?q=WTFflow
Youtube user:
http://www.youtube.com/user/WTFflow
if link works you get all the videos up front:
http://www.youtube.c...ser/WTFflow#g/u
This might be a triangle ship:

by Robert70Bob it says cigar but he does have a cigar video.
Hardware or not hardware I can't go with many of the explanations.


#13    karl 12

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 10:42 AM

View Post1963, on 12 February 2012 - 03:35 AM, said:

His assertion that perhaps there is some unknown intelligence (possibly our own collective subconscious ) that is purposely directing a pathway on to our psyche in order to control or guide our actions ...seems a couple of steps too far me to climb my friend!

It certainly a bit far out there my friend and I'm not too sure about the 'collective subconscious' angle either -in any case, it's nice to hear a calm, intellectual discussion about the UFO subject, even if it is purely speculative - Norio Hayakawa has uploaded a video below featuring Jacques Vallee's 'five most important propositions regarding the UFO phenomena' and whilst I don't necessarily subscribe to all of them, it is interesting food for thought from an experienced and veteran researcher.    







Vallee's UFO chart on UFO encounters can also be found in this clip from Orkojoker's excellent series of UFO Education videos where he briefly discusses patterns in UFO cases and how science needs to deal with UFO data:



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Cheers!


#14    karl 12

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 11:03 AM

View Postscowl, on 14 February 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

As UFOlogy enters its sixth decade with no real answers, investigators are coming up with ever more elaborate theories as to why they haven't made any measurable progress in understanding the phenomena.

Scowl, can't disagree with anything you've said there mate and perhaps that's all the more reason why we need an objective, rigorous, scientific study into the UFO/UAP phenomenon -there's a relevant article here dealing with prominent scientists asking for intensive, international study of the subject as far back as 1968 and I thought Brad Sparks made a good point in the video below:


http://video.google....72890288918446#




View Postscowl, on 14 February 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

It started off with aliens from other planets...

I suppose there's a lot of different opinions out there and, although each case should be taken on its own merits, some researchers suggest UFOs may originate from under the ocean, some speculate they may be multi-dimensional in nature, some suggest they may be time travellers, some suggest they may be intelligent plasma life-forms, some suggest they may be evolved machine intelligence and some people even suggest they may be 'demonic entities' - don't know about the last one but I think it pays to explore all options, especialy with a subject as slippery and elusive as 'UFO origin'

I don't know if you've seen it but Zoologist Ivan T Sanderson also produced some good work here on the subject:


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Ivan T Sanderson

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It is a shame that Sanderson, a biologist by profession, wrote only two books on UFOs. It is a greater shame that he is all but forgotten today. His first book, Uninvited Visitors (1967) remains among the most sophisticated analyses yet done on the possible nature of UFOs (Sanderson called them Unexplained Aerial Objects, or UAOs).

Too long to summarize here, Sanderson methodically asked, not what UAOs were, but what they could be. He developed a six page outline of the possibilities. Thus, they could be inanimate or animate. If inanimate, they might be natural, or artificial, each possibility with several subsets. If animate, they could also be natural or artificial. Natural forms might include life-forms indigenous to space, or to atmospheres, or to solid bodies. Artificial forms might be domesticated natural life-forms, genetically created life forms, or biochemically created life forms. And so on.

Sanderson at several points suggested the possibility that the "occupants" of UFOs might be artificial life forms. He was not dogmatic about this, and also entertained the idea that they might be an as-yet unknown life-form indigenous to Earth. Still, the concept of UFOs as a form of artificial intelligence is fertile enough that we might have expected some follow-up.


After all, it’s been 35 years.

link

Cheers.


#15    karl 12

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 09:42 AM

British Ambassador Gordon Creighton briefly discusses the EDH.










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From: Jacques Vallee: Implications of UFO Phenomena

By Teslasparkgap in Teslasparkgap's Blog, on 15 February 2012 - 09:17 PM

I found some strange UFOs in France:
http://www.bing.com/search?q=WTFflow
Youtube user:
http://www.youtube.com/user/WTFflow
if link works you get all the videos up front:
http://www.youtube.c...ser/WTFflow#g/u
This might be a triangle ship:

by Robert70Bob it says cigar but he does have a cigar video.
Hardware or...

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