135 replies to this topic

[Englishgent]

[quote name='Kazahel' timestamp='1329634386' post='4208334']
I have thought it for years that it was crass(of course its crass.. its toilet humour). And I have thought for years that your avatar is inconsiderate and insensitive towards other members on a site such as this. I've never voiced it before though because generally I bite my tongue. But in this thread I found it weird for someone to have such strong views as yours, which you posted while using that avatar.



I basically said WWJD.  Englishgent blew it way out of proportion and made the mountain out of THAT molehill yet you havent said anything about that...




The mountain was made by Englishgent.. you just decided to sit on top of it. And as I said before your avatar I found was hypocritical considering the such strong views you apparently have. So it was a simple observation, I didnt think(and still dont)that I had lost anything. I never meant the words I said in such a matter of fact way. I said "I think it could be argued that its the same thing. You might not think its smart to be forgiving but that doesnt mean I agree. " ... which is not the same as what you are making out.  Then later I said.. "Then I believe its smart to be forgiving. Thats a fact."

[size="3"]Kazahel
Can we just clear up one minor point here please.
Go back and check my post. Below the post is an edit, which was done within seconds of posting, which says
''edit.  Kazahel....apologies in advance if I took your 'smart' meaning the wrong way   (none if I didn't lol)                          ''

The reason i put in that edit is because one cannot hear the tone in which something is typed and I did not wish you to take offence at anything i has said.
By saying that I ''blew it way out of proportion and made a mountain out of a molehill'' is totally wrong on your part considering the edit.

Therefore,  bearing my edit in mind, I am smart enough to accept your apology if forthcoming

edit to add
[/size]

Edited by Englishgent, 19 February 2012 - 09:06 AM.

[Paranoid Android]

Kazahael and psyche101 - Let's end the argument about personal opinions of a person's avatar. We all have our opinions on different member's avatars (even me), and whether we like them or not, or whether we feel they are offensive or not, the bigger question is whether it breaks site rules. There are two facts of note in this case:

1- Considering the length of time this avatar has existed, if it were insulting, the moderating team would have removed it by now.

2- Failing that, if an avatar were overlooked by moderators, arguing about it within a thread is not the way to go about changing things. The Report button exists for a reason. Use it!

In this instance, I have a very simple experiment that should resolve the situation - type in both the BC phrase and the C word that you are arguing about, then preview the post. Note how the forum language filter responds to both phrases!

Enough said! Back to the topic, please!

~ Paranoid Android!

[Beckys_Mom]

psyche101, on 19 February 2012 - 06:19 AM, said:

What happened to live and let live?
But that is not being hypocritical is it

I was pointing out how words like that can be viewed as swear words  elsewhere.. it is fact..   I care not to stress on this much further

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   No different to saying the F Word? Quite a difference here in Australia.    

I do not live in Australia    I speak on my OWN behalf  to how I see things .How others may too.. It depends on where you come from and how you see it

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Yes definitely clearly worse, as a person, the same in the eyes of God as well I agree,              

I disagree.. I say all is equal in the eyes of God and  for me too.. I have heard many people say we are all equal in the eyes of God    You like to make the difference because you will favour the religious people as more important.. I think it is wrong to view others  more important over a  belief system... It is hardly noble to show any form of  favouritism towards someone all because you favour a belief system more...  Way I see it i, if someone insults a religious person and a non religious person .. then they have treated both people equally with disrespect  in my opinion ..

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but a Nun will not say anything back will a Nun? What do you call someone who picks on someone who cant fight back?  

I was taught in school by a lot of nuns.. trust me they would soon answer back.. They took no nonsense off anyone and they were indeed strict..   Some were not nice to get to know.. some where.. It depends on the person

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That you would go to such lengths to protect the right of people to say the C Word in public,

See below my 1st ever post on this thread.. it reads ...

Beckys_Mom, on 15 February 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

I personally wouldn't wear anything that contained bad language on it.. I wouldn't care what it was.. BUT in saying that, I wouldn't complain about those who do wear them...

That is me saying I do not approve, for if I did, I would say so..But clearly I am saying it is not something I would wear...   Not being bothered over it and getting annoyed is not the same..  It just means I can ignore things like that and not let myself get  bothered..  Big difference

**EDIT **-  Considering it took me well over an hour   to compose this in the order I wanted to answer each post... I notice PA has  in the meantime ( while I was still compiling my replies in order,  ) ..said no more talking about your avatar..........I have had to remove my own replies in ref to your avatar, he posted this while I  was still posting.  I never saw his post before I begun to reply..  I only saw it afterwards.............
..  So from here on is  I chose to stick with the simple fact that   in ref to the OP  I do not approve of but at the same time psyche  I do not have to get annoyed over it ...

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 19 February 2012 - 02:05 PM.

[Kazahel]

Well I've said everything that needed to be said. And later posts have already been answered.

[Ryu]

Everyone here has made some very valid points and I agree to some degree with all of them however there is one thing that i do not think has been addressed and that is..
When you wear a shirt bearing such a "in-your-face" type slogan then what type of comment do you think you are really making to others? In other words what do you think that it truly says about you?

To me it conveys a crude and violent mindset. It's like wearing a shirt that says "Cats. The other white meat".
I don't think it's funny and it tells me what you would possibly do to a cat if you got your hands on one.
In the case of the alleged shirts, I am not religious nor am I really "offended but rather I am dismayed, when I see this shirt it certainly doesn't tell me anything except that the bearer is incapable of conveying their ideas in a manner deserving of any real conversation and it also shows their utter contempt for other people.


If we want to create a more polite and civil society then we will never do it by creating more and more laws dictating what one can and cannot do, we must change it by changing our own attitudes. What is one truly gaining by wearing shirts that are designed specifically to "shock" others? If the shirt slogan is any indication of their conversational skills as well as their overall attitude then they cannot be surprised that few will want to discuss anything beyond the weather with them.

But..it isn't just the shirts but I see more and more crude innuendos all over the place. Decals of "Calvin" from "Calvin and Hobbes" urinating on various thing or movies being far too explicit in detailing "romantic" encounters.
All of this is a symptom of a larger problem and the shirts are not the problem either, they are merely one of the many symptoms.

However, on the flip side, I simply choose to ignore as best I can what other people wear because in the end giving these people attention, specifically the negative "How could you?" types is exactly what many of these people want.

[Paranoid Android]

Ryu, on 19 February 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

Everyone here has made some very valid points and I agree to some degree with all of them however there is one thing that i do not think has been addressed and that is..
When you wear a shirt bearing such a "in-your-face" type slogan then what type of comment do you think you are really making to others? In other words what do you think that it truly says about you?

To me it conveys a crude and violent mindset. It's like wearing a shirt that says "Cats. The other white meat".
I don't think it's funny and it tells me what you would possibly do to a cat if you got your hands on one.
In the case of the alleged shirts, I am not religious nor am I really "offended but rather I am dismayed, when I see this shirt it certainly doesn't tell me anything except that the bearer is incapable of conveying their ideas in a manner deserving of any real conversation and it also shows their utter contempt for other people.


If we want to create a more polite and civil society then we will never do it by creating more and more laws dictating what one can and cannot do, we must change it by changing our own attitudes. What is one truly gaining by wearing shirts that are designed specifically to "shock" others? If the shirt slogan is any indication of their conversational skills as well as their overall attitude then they cannot be surprised that few will want to discuss anything beyond the weather with them.

But..it isn't just the shirts but I see more and more crude innuendos all over the place. Decals of "Calvin" from "Calvin and Hobbes" urinating on various thing or movies being far too explicit in detailing "romantic" encounters.
All of this is a symptom of a larger problem and the shirts are not the problem either, they are merely one of the many symptoms.

However, on the flip side, I simply choose to ignore as best I can what other people wear because in the end giving these people attention, specifically the negative "How could you?" types is exactly what many of these people want.

My initial thoughts were much like yours - crass language, intentional offence towards Jesus (or at least people who believe in Jesus).  But after learning what the "highly sexualised" image of the nun was, I see a further offence.  Using a crucifix as a dildo with a caption referencing Jesus and the female reproductive area - that's a step above the C word alone, in my opinion.  I'd still find offence if it was aimed at other religious leaders, but in cahoots with the nun-imagery I think it a step above the "none-imagery" (yeah, just figured I'd add in a pun to solidify my viewpoint).

~ PA

[Beckys_Mom]

Ryu, on 19 February 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

When you wear a shirt bearing such a "in-your-face" type slogan then what type of comment do you think you are really making to others? In other words what do you think that it truly says about you?

Which is why I noted at the beginning of this thread, I personally would not wear anything like that..    I just do not see any point, nor do I want that much attention of the wrong kind...
The only attention I like to get, is the proper kind... When I go out, I dress causal and other times I dress with a touch of class, where I receive compliments on how well I look and what suits me..  That my friends is the only kind of attention I like to get I do the same with my daughter,I will dress her to look good and not like some piece of trash

Wearing trash clothing with any kind of swear words on it, regardless as to who the swearing is about - in my view is still trashy and I would give it a big no thank you..  Would not like to be seen dressed like that ..

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          However, on the flip side, I simply choose to ignore as best I can what other people wear because in the end giving these people attention, specifically the negative "How could you?" types is exactly what many of these people want.    

Exactly..  It is easier to ignore them  and show them  that they cannot get to you ...  I chose to blank all trash clothing out... I go about my own business

If I complain about a t-shirt with the C word on it..I may as \well go the whole hog and whine and complain make a fuss over every last swear word people wear on them, including swear words shaved in their heads..and tattoos.

..Show everyone that I am out to make a fuss and cause trouble... more trouble than it is worth...It means I  am giving these people  the attention they desire

Look at this forum and any other forum for that matter... We have a feature here called  - The ignore function...It means we can chose to ignore what we find unsettling and rude ..  My point is this... ignoring is said to be the better course of action for most things in life that can be negative...The choice is always there, complain about it or ignore it ..I ignoring does not mean approval

I sure am not going to act biased and only find something offensive because of a personal belief system... I think that is a biased and unwanted approach...
I believe if you are going to act so offended.. then go the whole hog and show no favourites.. not act biased all because you are religious ..Thats is just like doing a half ar**d effort... IMO not good enough.. it is picking and choosing what you want to feel offended over more than the rest.I know we all pick and chose what suits us, but there are times when we can look daft doing it....I will only focus more on what is harmful to society, meaning what can hurt others and kill them physically .  .Other than that. I have no time for biased behaviour ..Religious people hold no more importance than others

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 19 February 2012 - 04:18 PM.

[Paranoid Android]

Beckys_Mom, on 19 February 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

Wearing trash clothing with any kind of swear words on it, regardless as to who the swearing is about - in my view is still trashy and I would give it a big no thank you..  

If I complain about a t-shirt with the C word on it..I may as \well go the whole hog and whine and complain make a fuss over every last swear word people wear on them, including swear words shaved in their heads..and tattoos.

In my opinion, after learning what the picture actually was I think this is more than just about a swear word.  Imagine for a moment that someone was wearing a shirt with a picture of a naked porn-star putting a dildo inside of her.  Would you find this acceptable and would you be happy to explain what this shirt meant to little Becky?  Then if your kid then asked not just about the picture but also why the C word was on the shirt in the same image, would you be happy to explain that?  

Several days ago, my view was simply "I don't like it but I accept their choice to wear it".  Now I am not so sure.  Not because of the Jesus reference but because of the pornography reference.  Pornography is still restricted to people over 18, unless things have changed.  Even the "age of consent" for sexual interaction is set at a certain age (16 years, here in Australia).  And to have a picture of a naked nun pleasuring herself in her female pleasure hole with a crucifix, and wearing that in PUBLIC where people of all ages and creeds walk - I have come to a new belief that it is totally inappropriate.

I'd link the image for you and ask you to show it to Becky and explain it to her, but I'm afraid I'd have to Moderate my own posts because after searching for the image I can say that any moderator here would automatically remove it from the boards.  

Now that I know the content of the "highly sexualised" image, I cannot help but change my original stance and agree that it is totally inappropriate and should be banned.  

~ Regards,

[Beckys_Mom]

Paranoid Android, on 19 February 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

Would you find this acceptable and would you be happy to explain what this shirt meant to little Becky?

What gives you the impression that I find anything like it  ( and I mean anything including the sexual images)  acceptable?

Was it in this post?

Beckys_Mom, on 19 February 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

Which is why I noted at the beginning of this thread, I personally would not wear anything like that..    I just do not see any point, nor do I want that much attention of the wrong kind...

Or was it this post...

Beckys_Mom, on 15 February 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

I personally wouldn't wear anything that contained bad language on it.. I wouldn't care what it was.. BUT in saying that, I wouldn't complain about those who do wear them...

Clearly showing that I do not approve of anything like it, I do not care what it was

Which is pretty much sums up that I do not approve or find anything like this acceptable  nor would I approve of it personally...  Ignoring it and not showing I am bothered is not the same thing... So me saying -> Look I do not personally like this, but I chose not to complain  that must mean they approve and find it acceptable?  really?   <-- Fair minded question..So is that what you think?   I am wondering because you chose to ask me do I find it acceptable.. it is as if I already have done ...

If   (  meaning if ) ...you think so, then if I chose to ignore someone's post because obviously I find it annoying or rude etc.. Does that mean I find the post content acceptable too?   See what I am saying?

We do not have to make a big fuss and complain  about everything  we find horrible all the time.. If we can chose to ignore it then so be it..

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   I'd link the image for you and ask you to show it to Becky and explain it to her, but I'm afraid I'd have to Moderate my own posts because after searching for the image I can say that any moderator here would automatically remove it from the boards.        

Similar has happened before once or twice actually.. She saw a dirty post set in the street and asked about it... I told her it was just something dirty and disguising, that only  those with no clue will like..  She accepts that and never used further.. She is told not to look at them, only silly ignorant people will star at them... She believes me.. and does just that..

She does what she is told...She is like me, doesn't stress on the issue and push to find out more... If she is told it is disguising and wrong and not to bother with it...She accept that..  I will not sit and explain to a 6 year old about sex at this point ..If I can settle for saying  look Becky it is a dirty disgusting image and only bad people will wear them.. people with no clue. for respect.. She will accept it... She already has done before

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   Now that I know the content of the "highly sexualised" image, I cannot help but change my original stance and agree that it is totally inappropriate and should be banned.  

On my own behalf - I view all swearing the same and I do not approve, so I can ignore it all..Just like graphic sexual images on clothing too.. all the same to me regardless who they are of Not just pick out what is ok and I can live with..

..I do not want people to think I am all of a sudden going to change my mind  out of the blue because I just realised it has a religious sexual nature to it, and I have some personal belief that disapproves.therefore show my more biased view ... No thanks .. It's all or nothing with me .Meaning if I chose to complain about bad words and sexual images on clothing, I would have to complain about the lot and not just over one kind.. I know people will think I am just biased if I  picked out what I feel is more offensive  and leave the rest

Aren't  all swearing words  equal.. just like  how you think all sins are equal?  

...You can change your stance  as often as you fit.. I stick with my own views. I personally do not care how often anyone changes their mind.. It is your own choice in the end ..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 19 February 2012 - 05:52 PM.

[_Only]

I'm far from a prude, but I'm not going to give a political answer, like above, and say that the shirt wouldn't phase me. It was designed to shock, and that's what it does.

Edited by Jerry Only, 19 February 2012 - 06:03 PM.

[Beckys_Mom]

Jerry Only, on 19 February 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

I'm far from a prude, but I'm not going to give a political answer, like above, and say that the shirt wouldn't phase me.

Where did I say that the t-shirt itself does not phase me?  I said clearly  ( too often)  ..I am not going to whine and complain over it... It does not mean I all of a sudden think it is ok or I approve it...  


Can someone please explain how is it if someone that says they do not  like something or they would not wear something   and feel they should ignore what they do not like.. and move on.<-- .  How is that  showing approval?  Anyone??


Is there a golden rule that says.. If it contains swearing or sexual images.. we MUST get annoyed enough to complain?

Is there something else that says - If we chose to ignore what we personally do not care for or like... this means we approve of it?  

If so, how come I did not get the memo??

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 19 February 2012 - 06:16 PM.

[_Only]

Yeah, we get it. The point is things that are often deemed too shocking by the general public get banned. Whether you can rise above personally and not let it ruin your day, that's not the norm.

[Beckys_Mom]

Jerry Only, on 19 February 2012 - 06:22 PM, said:

Yeah, we get it.

Took y'a long enough  lol

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         Whether you can rise above personally and not let it ruin your day, that's not the norm.                

I know, I mean what am I thinking?  ...For me  want to rise above other peoples rudeness and carry on   not getting stressed over it.. is  so NOT the norm..  I should spend my time whining, complaining and cause a fuss here and there if I see something I feel is shocking?  Yea?  Cuz  see.. to carry on like that is  the norm.. and I so want to fit in...I hate being the odd one out  

Sigh  I couldn't make this stuff up  even if I tried  lol

[_Only]

My point is you come on here with your nonstop arguing and ranting on how perfect you are, you don't factor in how others might feel, if it isn't how you would, and it just comes off as preaching on how others should all be like you. It gets old.

[Beckys_Mom]

Some of us will not approve of the clothing in the OP  but we can chose to ignore it.. Some of us can chose not to ignore it .. We all have a right..   I do not think anyone here is suggesting that we all should be the same and that includes me.. I always speak on my own behalf and have gladly noted as such

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 19 February 2012 - 07:38 PM.