21 replies to this topic

[GS1]

I made a video of my Giza pyramid positions theory. It's not Orion's Belt but Orion is involved. The Pyramid Texts hold the key. I had to make original music for it so I took a midi of the Star Spangled Banner and manipulated it heavily in FL Studio. You won't even recognize it as the anthem but it does sound kind of pleasant. Had to cut it short though. You'll have to full screen it to see details. The "Bull of Heaven" mentioned in the Texts is, of course, Taurus, which is where the Sun rose in the Spring in the Pyramid Age.

Edited by GS1, 14 February 2012 - 10:45 PM.

[Harte]

You need to provide at least a scrap of evidence that the Ancient Egyptians viewed that particular constellation as a bull.

Last I checked, the AE's did not recognize any "zodiac."

Harte

[questionmark]

Nice piece of fiction, or do you have anything to back it up with?

[Gaden]

questionmark, on 15 February 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

Nice piece of fiction, or do you have anything to back it up with?

When reading things like this, I am reminded of that song by Styx
"too much time on my hands..."

[Kryso]

Harte, on 15 February 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

You need to provide at least a scrap of evidence that the Ancient Egyptians viewed that particular constellation as a bull.

Last I checked, the AE's did not recognize any "zodiac."

Harte

I was thinking this too. I think the zodiac goes back a long way, but not in the sense as we know it. The word zodiac, comes from a greek word meaning, "The circle of animals." But I don't think the Egyptians looked at the stars in the same manner as we do today.

[jules99]

Kryso, on 15 February 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

I was thinking this too. I think the zodiac goes back a long way, but not in the sense as we know it. The word zodiac, comes from a greek word meaning, "The circle of animals." But I don't think the Egyptians looked at the stars in the same manner as we do today.

Well what about the Dendera zodiac, its Egyptian, its old and its a Zodiac;

http://en.wikipedia..../Dendera_zodiac

Edited by jules99, 15 February 2012 - 07:27 PM.

[Kryso]

jules99, on 15 February 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

Well what about the Dendera zodiac, its Egyptian, its old and its a Zodiac;

http://en.wikipedia..../Dendera_zodiac

It states it was dated to around 50BC. We have to remember that the Egyptian have been around thousands of years before that - about 3150 BC. http://en.wikipedia....i/Ancient_Egypt

So this comes from the end of their reign so to speak. By which time they have started to fade, and mingle with other nations of the time. And to be replaced as the main world power by the Romans in 30BC. And the The Great Pyramid of Giza was completed around 2560 BC. If this symbol was such an important image to the Egyptians, is would have appeared more in hieroglyphs and images. Not just at the end of their heyday.

[Harte]

Kryso, on 15 February 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

I was thinking this too. I think the zodiac goes back a long way, but not in the sense as we know it. The word zodiac, comes from a greek word meaning, "The circle of animals." But I don't think the Egyptians looked at the stars in the same manner as we do today.

Quite right.

The zodiac we got from the Grreks has it's roots in Sumer, not Egypt.

jules99, on 15 February 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

Well what about the Dendera zodiac, its Egyptian, its old and its a Zodiac;

http://en.wikipedia..../Dendera_zodiac

Sorry, no.

The Dendera zodiac is Greek.
You should recall a guy named Alexander the Great.  He started the reign of the Ptolemies in Egypt.

They were all Greek and they are the ones that imported that zodiac.

Cleopatra was the last Ptolemaic ruler, IIRC.

Harte

[jules99]

Harte, on 15 February 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

Quite right.

The zodiac we got from the Grreks has it's roots in Sumer, not Egypt.

Sorry, no.

The Dendera zodiac is Greek.
You should recall a guy named Alexander the Great.  He started the reign of the Ptolemies in Egypt.

They were all Greek and they are the ones that imported that zodiac.

Cleopatra was the last Ptolemaic ruler, IIRC.

Harte

OK, yeah I had read that, so the constellation taurus wouldnt have been known as such when the GP complex was built. If anything Apis bulls were lunar related so its hard to envisage any connection to taurus.

[GS1]

Harte, on 15 February 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

You need to provide at least a scrap of evidence that the Ancient Egyptians viewed that particular constellation as a bull.

Last I checked, the AE's did not recognize any "zodiac."

Harte

That's cuz you didn't actually check very well. Easy enough to find;

"To the Egyptians, the constellation Taurus was a sacred bull that was associated with the renewal of life in spring. About 4,000 years ago, the spring equinox entered Taurus. The constellation would become covered by the Sun in the western sky as spring began. This 'sacrifice' led to the renewal of the land." http://en.wikipedia....(constellation)

Or;

"Taurus Mythology

The Taurus constellation is among the ancient symbols. It's been associated with a bull even as far back as the Babylonians.In ancient Egypt, Taurus was associated with Apis or (Hapis or Hapi-ankh) a bull god, (incarnation of the god Osiris) idolized in the Memphis region. http://www.serendipity-astro*spam filter*/Taurus-Mythology.html

Or;

"Taurus was one of the first Zodiac constellations created. In 4000 B.C., the Vernal or Spring Equinox was located in Taurus (today it resides in Leo.) The Vernal Equinox is one of two days out of the year when day and night are equal throughout the world. (The other is the Fall Equinox). The Vernal Equinox marks the beginning of Spring in the Northern Hemisphere, and had special significance to the Ancient Egyptians. They saw Taurus as their bull-god Apis. The Egyptians used real bulls with certain markings to embody the soul of the bull-god. Each bull was tended by the high priests until it died, and then another was found. In Spring, festivals in honor of Apis were held. This was also the time when the Nile gently overflowed and signalled the beginning of the planting season." http://www.angelfire...ers/Taurus.html

Need I continue? Now, I concede that it's possible that the Pyramid Text cited doesn't refer to Taurus when it says "Bull of heaven", but the Egyptians certainly saw the constellation as very important, for obvious solar related reasons as described in the above quotes. The Apis bull is often depicted, in statues etc, with the solar disc between its horns. It could also be that they saw Taurus as Hathor. Notice how Hathor is depicted with the sun between her horns, exactly like the sun passes between the horns of Taurus.

Hathor is actually depicted in a statue of Menkaure, the very king who built the pyramid whiich is located at the horn of Taurus. Hathor is slao known to have been worshiped by Khufu himself. Rather appropriate then that it was partially the basis for the Giza pyramid layout, don't you think?

So either way, Apis Bull or Hathor, Taurus was clearly an important constellation to the AE.

Edited by GS1, 15 February 2012 - 10:43 PM.

[jules99]

Hi;
From what I read the head of the bull in the constellation Taurus is represented by the Hyades and its eye is Aldebran. In ancient Egyptian star maps these stars are known as The Jaw. The Pleiades, also part of Taurus are called the flock;

http://members.westn.../page11-19.html

As you can see what we know of as Taurus was completely different to them.

[GS1]

jules99, on 16 February 2012 - 02:39 AM, said:

Hi;
From what I read the head of the bull in the constellation Taurus is represented by the Hyades and its eye is Aldebran. In ancient Egyptian star maps these stars are known as The Jaw. The Pleiades, also part of Taurus are called the flock;

http://members.westn.../page11-19.html

As you can see what we know of as Taurus was completely different to them.

Interesting. I couldn't find much on this "jaw" thing, other than this quote from a YouTube video description;

"The two main constellations to pay attention to are Sah and the Jaw. Sah is an Egyptian version of Orion. Jaw is a version of Taurus, also known as Apis (the sacred bull) or the Tomb of Apis."

So it appears that it is still Apis. The appellation "Tomb of Apis" is also interesting, since the Giza complex is a necropolis. I'll have to look into it more, thanks for the information though. I hadn't heard about that before. I still maintain that the pyramids are positioned based on those three stars, whatever they may have been seen as at the time. Pretty obvious really, considering that they clearly match the pyramid positions and involve the most important star of the Nile, Sirius, and part of Orion. I don't know why exactly they chose Elnath rather than Aldebaran, probably because the ecliptic passes closer to Elnath than it.

Here's the actual image, clearer than in my video. Giant Great Pyramid, giant star Sirius, slightly smaller pyramid of Khafre, slightly smaller star Betelgeuse, much smaller pyramid of Menkaure, much smaller star Elnath. Pretty obvious, huh? How did people manage to miss that? It's right there. Probably were looking at Giza with North up instead of South up as it was intended. Another clue being the Milky Way running right beside those three stars just like the Nile with the pyramids. Robert Bauval saw the three little Orion's Belt stars and completely missed the trio involving Sirius, the most obvious star to match with the Great Pyramid.

Edited by GS1, 16 February 2012 - 01:17 PM.

[Harte]

Sorry, but links to legitimate sources should be used, not to Crystalinks.

As far as I've ever been able to determine, the Apis bull was not associated with Taurus (though I could be wrong,) and I believe your wiki quote is referring to Ptolemaic  Egypt, which is still "ancient" to us.

While it's true that the vernal equinox was (obviously) important to the AE's, what is also true is that the Egyptians recognized no zodiac.  In fact, most star patterns we recognize today were never even resolved into shapes by the AE's, though some certainly were.  The Egyptians considered sections of the sky containing various stars, though.  That is, they recognized the patterns in this way - through the fact that they resided within sections of the sky delineated by Egyptian observation.

Please note the meaning of the word zodiac - the ring of animal(and other)-shaped constellations that form an apparent circle concentric to the Earth.  This was never recognized by Egypt until the Ptolemies.

Harte

[GS1]

Harte, on 16 February 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

Sorry, but links to legitimate sources should be used, not to Crystalinks.

As far as I've ever been able to determine, the Apis bull was not associated with Taurus (though I could be wrong,) and I believe your wiki quote is referring to Ptolemaic  Egypt, which is still "ancient" to us.

While it's true that the vernal equinox was (obviously) important to the AE's, what is also true is that the Egyptians recognized no zodiac.  In fact, most star patterns we recognize today were never even resolved into shapes by the AE's, though some certainly were.  The Egyptians considered sections of the sky containing various stars, though.  That is, they recognized the patterns in this way - through the fact that they resided within sections of the sky delineated by Egyptian observation.

Please note the meaning of the word zodiac - the ring of animal(and other)-shaped constellations that form an apparent circle concentric to the Earth.  This was never recognized by Egypt until the Ptolemies.

Harte

Okay, you win. The Giza pyramids represent Sirius, Betelgeuse and Elnath. Why they chose to depict those particular stars is an unsolved mystery, you'd have to ask them. I did find an interesting quote though which is worth posting. From Google Books version of Calendars and Constellations of the Ancient World
By Emmeline Plunket;



Also this;

"Apis Bull

        An image of a bull standing in a lotus-shaped boat is seen in the Deir el Bahari hillside in simulacrum.  Art that matches this image is seen most often on temple ceilings and is understood to be the zodiac constellations, Taurus.   This depiction of Taurus in a boat can then be understood to represent the constellation Taurus on the horizon within the ecliptic.  In fact all of the constellations are depicted in this manner, which only strengthens the theory that the ecliptic horizons are indeed portrayed using boat symbolism, as the constellations cycle on the eastern horizon in the course of one year." http://egyptianepiph...m/apisbull.html

And especially this from Google Books Ancient Code: Are You Ready for the Real 2012?
By Brian Allan;

Edited by GS1, 16 February 2012 - 02:26 PM.

[GS1]

Here's a good one. It suggests that the Pleiades were seen as a bee or bee sting on the bull of Taurus. That very nicely explains the Apis-bee association with the bull.

"Apis is Latin for bee and considered a mystery word because it is said to be unrelated to any other words. There is a Greek word with the same spelling for the sacred bull of Osiris. I want to attempt to explain the connection by drawing attention to the stars.

First of all, the Apis Bull of Osiris was an earthly representation of the constellation Taurus, because Taurus contains the Pleiades constellation, which is Osiris as the power of resurrection in forms like the eye of bread given to him by Horus, as well as the antipodal position that the Pleiades demark as the top of the delineation of his Djed. Antipodal, in this astronomical context, means a position perfectly opposite another position on the ecliptic, or Sun’s path, which is exactly 180 degrees removed. This antipodal position of the Pleiades is easily conceptualized as a honey bee, because this antipodal position is atop the head of Scorpio, which is easily conceptualized as a flowers head with a long stem seen as the tail of Scorpio. Antipodal mean the opposite foot, thus something that works together in step with something else, like a counterpart relationship, as in hand and glove. The head of Scorpio as a flower is complimented with the Pleiades as the merged image of a bee alighting onto a flower, a perfect composite of an iconic relationship. This antipodal relationship means that when the head of Scorpio is rising on the eastern horizon the Pleiades are setting on the western horizon. One on each astronomically important point of setting and rising used in the measurement of time and this specific position of the Pleiades, that is our bee here in discussion, is the foundation of time and considered the point of supporting all the heavens, a very significant position.

So, we have found a connection between the word apis for a bee and Apis for the bull associated with Osiris, But let’s go further in this pursuit.

The Pleiades are seen as a sting from a bee to the constellation Taurus and therefore Taurus is looking at the Pleiades, or bee, with the eye of Aldebaran, the bull’s eye and thus where the term bull’s-eye comes from, denoting the center mark of heaven as the Pleiades, which by the way are the eye of heaven and not to be confused with Aldebaran, the bull’s eye, which gets its name from the follower of the Pleiades. So, we are drawing more connections to the bull in the heavens and the bee for a connection between two apis words for bull and bee."  http://www.interestingtopics.net/bee-of-2012-id-531

Also this;

"Taurus also contains the Pleiades, and it is a generally accepted theory amongst astronomers that the motion of the Sun, probably in a circle, has its centre in one of these stars."

Read more: http://chestofbooks....l#ixzz1mYX9giAD

Edited by GS1, 16 February 2012 - 02:42 PM.