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Refuse vaccines? Find another doctor


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#1    Corp

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 06:36 PM

http://online.wsj.co...0884246636.html

Good to see some doctors taking a stand against the anti-vaccine foolishness.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#2    rashore

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 06:57 PM

Hmmm, now that's interesting.


#3    King Fluffs

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 07:03 PM

Interesting indeed.


#4    __Kratos__

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 08:21 PM

No one wants to deal with idiots.

I saw a report a few days ago about how parents still aren't giving their children the chicken pox vaccine but rather having pox parties with sick kids to make their own children sick and make them go through it for weeks rather then a simple shot in the arm.

I had the chicken pox as a kid and it was a terrible experience even though I got out of school for it. Between the itching and my mother yelling at me for scratching 24/7... Maddening. Anybody who would make a child suffer needlessly needs a good slap upside the head.

Edited by __Kratos__, 18 February 2012 - 08:26 PM.

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#5    preacherman76

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 12:32 AM

"Another concern centered on the former use of mercury as a vaccine preservative."

And people wonder why folks just cant find a way to trust big pharm. Former use my ass. Then again we are talking about people who sat in a room 15 years ago and talked about how they could push mind altering drugs on children. Now a very large % of our children are on zombie enducing drugs for "chemical imbalences" in thier brains, without even so much as a blood test. Then those drugs CAUSE chemical imbalances in these kids brains. Some to the point where they kill themselfs, or worse take a bunch of others with semi auto guns, and home made pipe bombs.

Anyone here seen commercials they spend millions on for new drugs they put on the market? 'Side effects may include, but are not limited to, heart attacks, seizures, brain damage, rash, cancer, and death. See your doctor to see if this drug is right for you.' LOL No thanks.

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#6    preacherman76

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 12:38 AM

View Post__Kratos__, on 18 February 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

No one wants to deal with idiots.

I saw a report a few days ago about how parents still aren't giving their children the chicken pox vaccine but rather having pox parties with sick kids to make their own children sick and make them go through it for weeks rather then a simple shot in the arm.

I had the chicken pox as a kid and it was a terrible experience even though I got out of school for it. Between the itching and my mother yelling at me for scratching 24/7... Maddening. Anybody who would make a child suffer needlessly needs a good slap upside the head.


Last I heard, they dont know the long term effectiveness of the chicken pox vaccine. It may not remain effective into adulthood. Obviously a adult getting chicken pox is far more dangerous then a child getting it. Better to just get it the old fashion way, then to end up with severly painful shingles. Besides, getting chicken pox isnt that bad.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#7    FurthurBB

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 04:20 AM

View PostCorp, on 18 February 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

http://online.wsj.co...0884246636.html

Good to see some doctors taking a stand against the anti-vaccine foolishness.


I don't know.  This might be crossing a dangerous line.  People should always know that they have the right to decide what kind of medical care they are willing to agree to for themselves and their children.  Doctors do not know everything and seem to forget a lot of what they learned about biology before they went to medical school.  Doctors hate me and we rarely see eye to eye.  Because of this I have a hard time finding doctors that want to treat me.  I have always vaccinated my children, and they have all scheduled vaccination, though I would not let them give my kids any kind of medicine they wanted.  Most the time they could not even tell me how the medication worked and I would have to correct them.  I fought long and hard for pediatric rules about antibiotics and won.  Now I am trying to do the same for adults, especially with urgent care and ERs.  So, needless to say that is not popular among doctors.  I do believe that people should vaccinate their children and that vaccines are one of the true miracles of modern medicine.  Also, unfortunately, I have seen first hand how the people at the heart of the anti-vax campaign are unethical leaches who prey on families who have had unimaginable tragedy in their lives.  I just do not think that this is the way to go about changing their minds.


#8    FurthurBB

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 04:33 AM

View Post__Kratos__, on 18 February 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

No one wants to deal with idiots.

I saw a report a few days ago about how parents still aren't giving their children the chicken pox vaccine but rather having pox parties with sick kids to make their own children sick and make them go through it for weeks rather then a simple shot in the arm.

I had the chicken pox as a kid and it was a terrible experience even though I got out of school for it. Between the itching and my mother yelling at me for scratching 24/7... Maddening. Anybody who would make a child suffer needlessly needs a good slap upside the head.


Sending chicken pox laden lollipops through the mail should be a federal offense.


#9    FurthurBB

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 04:41 AM

View Postpreacherman76, on 19 February 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

Last I heard, they dont know the long term effectiveness of the chicken pox vaccine. It may not remain effective into adulthood. Obviously a adult getting chicken pox is far more dangerous then a child getting it. Better to just get it the old fashion way, then to end up with severly painful shingles. Besides, getting chicken pox isnt that bad.


Well, in Japan, they do know the effects for 30 years and 90% of those vaccinated still had immunity, also 90% of people who got it naturally still have immunity after 30 years.  Though it drops exponentially for natural after 50 years even though people think having it gives you life long immunity.  The problem with chicken pox is that being repeatedly exposed to it boosts your immunity and lessens your likelihood of getting shingles.  The same seems to be true for the vaccine.  So, if most of the population was vaccinated, long term immunity would lessen.  Although, since chicken pox has no other host than humans, we could wipe it out with vaccines.  It would take a massive effort, but could be done.


#10    rodentraiser

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 04:43 AM

I don't think the parents who don't want to vaccinate their children today are totally thinking things through. Measles and chickenpox are horrible things to get as an adult, as they can be life threatening diseases. You can get chickenpox inside your stomach, in your esophagus, inside your eyelids - virtually everywhere. And while the vaccine doesn't entirely prevent it, your chances of getting shingles are greatly reduced after being vaccinated as opposed to getting shingles after having chicken pox. And having shingles is the pits. You can have constant pain for the rest of your life, permanent nerve damage, or even go blind from shingles. Four years after having shingles I still have nerve damage and my cheek itches so badly I sometimes scratch my skin raw. Likewise, many times unvaccinated children will not show immediate symptoms of mumps, measles, or chickenpox and while incubating the disease, they may give it to an unvaccinated adult or a pregnant woman. I always wonder if the parent who refuses to vaccinate their child because of the supposed health risks ever stops to think about how they would feel if their sick child killed another person or forced a pregnant woman to miscarry or have to consider abortion because those people were exposed to a disease that is so easily preventable today with vaccinations. Personally, I think it's the epitome of selfishness for a parent to not vaccinate their kids.

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#11    and then

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 04:43 AM

I got Chicken Pox at 27 and nearly died from it.  In my youth there were no vaccines.  I'd hesitate to force a vaccine on a child but I have no problem with the docs choosing not to be responsible for the outcomes as a result of refusing the vaccine.

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#12    FurthurBB

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 05:06 AM

View Postrodentraiser, on 19 February 2012 - 04:43 AM, said:

I don't think the parents who don't want to vaccinate their children today are totally thinking things through. Measles and chickenpox are horrible things to get as an adult, as they can be life threatening diseases. You can get chickenpox inside your stomach, in your esophagus, inside your eyelids - virtually everywhere. And while the vaccine doesn't entirely prevent it, your chances of getting shingles are greatly reduced after being vaccinated as opposed to getting shingles after having chicken pox. And having shingles is the pits. You can have constant pain for the rest of your life, permanent nerve damage, or even go blind from shingles. Four years after having shingles I still have nerve damage and my cheek itches so badly I sometimes scratch my skin raw. Likewise, many times unvaccinated children will not show immediate symptoms of mumps, measles, or chickenpox and while incubating the disease, they may give it to an unvaccinated adult or a pregnant woman. I always wonder if the parent who refuses to vaccinate their child because of the supposed health risks ever stops to think about how they would feel if their sick child killed another person or forced a pregnant woman to miscarry or have to consider abortion because those people were exposed to a disease that is so easily preventable today with vaccinations. Personally, I think it's the epitome of selfishness for a parent to not vaccinate their kids.


You do not know how crazy these anti-vax people can be.  My niece has asperger's and her mother was convinced for a good while that it was from vaccines.  She actually caught me in some kind of freak show intervention with all these crazy people because I wouldn't agree with her.  Of course I wouldn't agree with her, I told her more than year before the supposed offending vaccination that she should have her daughter tested for autism, though she somehow forgot all about that.  Then she wouldn't have anything to do with me, even though we had been friends since we were 16, and she disowned her family because they "sided" with me.  It is cultist, these people had her so brainwashed it was unbelievable.  well, she ended up having another child, a boy, who she never vaccinated, and what do you know.  He has autism too, and not asperger's, horrible degenerative autism.  Well, needless to say she no longer believes the anti-vax myth and has had to get a lot of therapy to get over what they did to her and the horrible things she did to her daughter at their behest.


#13    Rafterman

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 05:18 AM

View Postpreacherman76, on 19 February 2012 - 12:32 AM, said:

"Another concern centered on the former use of mercury as a vaccine preservative."

And people wonder why folks just cant find a way to trust big pharm. Former use my ass. Then again we are talking about people who sat in a room 15 years ago and talked about how they could push mind altering drugs on children. Now a very large % of our children are on zombie enducing drugs for "chemical imbalences" in thier brains, without even so much as a blood test. Then those drugs CAUSE chemical imbalances in these kids brains. Some to the point where they kill themselfs, or worse take a bunch of others with semi auto guns, and home made pipe bombs.

Anyone here seen commercials they spend millions on for new drugs they put on the market? 'Side effects may include, but are not limited to, heart attacks, seizures, brain damage, rash, cancer, and death. See your doctor to see if this drug is right for you.' LOL No thanks.

Ever read the side effects for aspirin or Tylenol?  If you understood how drug testing was carried out, you'd know that if 1 person in 5,000 developed cancer while participating in the trial, then cancer has to be listed as a possible side effect.

As far as mercury is concerned, there has never been a link found between it and anything.

As to the OP, it's about time.  We need to be marginalizing these anti-vaccer types until they begin to realize that they are putting us all at risk with their stupidity - especially our children.  Personally, I no longer let my children socialize with the anti-vacs and I make sure that they know why.

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                                                                                                                                           - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World:  Science as a Candle in the Dark

#14    Rafterman

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 05:23 AM

View Postpreacherman76, on 19 February 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

Last I heard, they dont know the long term effectiveness of the chicken pox vaccine. It may not remain effective into adulthood. Obviously a adult getting chicken pox is far more dangerous then a child getting it. Better to just get it the old fashion way, then to end up with severly painful shingles. Besides, getting chicken pox isnt that bad.

Unless you were one of the ones that died form it.

http://thechart.blog...hickenpox-down/

Deaths from chickenpox (the varicella virus) have dropped 97 percent in adolescents and children since the use of the vaccine began in 1995, new analysis shows.

"I think there's certainly the potential for very little disease in the future and very few deaths if we are to fully implement and maintain that program," said Jane Seward, deputy director, Division of Viral Diseases, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The study appears in journal Pediatrics. Researchers from the CDC looked at data from 1990 to 2007.

"Every kid did get chickenpox and, in the pre-vaccine era, there were 3-4 million cases a year," Seward said. "What people may not have realized, every year, about 105 people died of chickenpox. About half of those were children and about 11,000-12,000 were hospitalized with severe complications. We started preventing the disease to really prevent those very serious complications."

"For me, it is better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
                                                                                                                                           - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World:  Science as a Candle in the Dark

#15    susieice

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 05:33 AM

Also, if you had chickenpox when you were young, the virus stays dormant in the body and can recur as shingles when you are older. If you have not had chickenpox, you can't get shingles and if you go around someone who has shingles you will get chickenpox if they are contagious. Doesn't happen to everyone but is better to avoid the chance if possible.

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