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The Land of the Free? Not so Much!


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#46    Gummug

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:57 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 20 February 2012 - 04:58 AM, said:

It's so terrible. I responded to MW with a huge list of rediculouse fees, taxes, and regulations then I messed up and erased it all. But land of the free this is no longer,  and we killed all the braves. We are slowly bein  constricted in to a police state that taxes and herasses it citizens so that the only thing we are capable of doing is consuming.
Amen, brother...sad....I think we have totally forgotten our history. I mean, not everyone has, but too many people have imo.

The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know....

#47    Jor-el

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:58 PM

View PostJerry Only, on 20 February 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

From reading those articles, it is a zoning/city code issue, but that doesn't explain the backstory, namely the how and why the issue came up. If you want to say it was religious discrimination, that's your opinion, but it doesn't sound like the most realistic one.

I gather that there was a complaint from one of the neighbours who thought it unseemly that so many people met in her neighbours home for church activities... she complained, they were fined...

And by church activities I don't mean that they are a church.

Edited by Jor-el, 20 February 2012 - 11:00 PM.

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#48    _Only

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:01 PM

View PostJor-el, on 20 February 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

I gather that there was a complaint from one of the neighbours who thought it unseemly that so many people met in her neighbours home for church activities... she complained, they were fined...

Well, if that hypothetical situation was correct, one random busybody person would be the one discriminating, and the city just responding, following the law. In that case, peoples claim of the city discriminating against a religious group would be misplaced.

"I think there may be "ghost phenomenon" that may be still not fully understood or dismissed, but that doesn't make it spirits of the dead, anymore than "UFO" means "spaceship" or even "UFO" or "spaceship" is directly related to aliens, or anything else. There is way too much assumption and a baseless reliance on anecdotal lore, like when people assert this or that about the spirit world or the astral plane or Ouija board demons, or religion. I say 'says WHO?'" - Paranormalcy

#49    Jor-el

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:03 PM

View PostThe Silver Thong, on 20 February 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

Land use issues.

You might not believe this but I'm in favor of this and have no personal issue with it (the meetings).  I think the law is pretty stupid in this regaurd.  The couple that have there friends over should be able to but is it an organized meeting that requires a permit.

And when you have an organized meeting, say your son wants to have his scouts buddies over, will you be getting a permit?

If you don't and one of your neighbours complain, then of course you will willingly pay a justified fine...

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#50    aquatus1

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:04 PM

It is truly amazing how the responses in this thread so accurately reflect the exact identical process which made this a news story in the first place.


#51    Jor-el

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:07 PM

View PostJerry Only, on 20 February 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

Well, if that hypothetical situation was correct, one random busybody person would be the one discriminating, and the city just responding, following the law. In that case, peoples claim of the city discriminating against a religious group would be misplaced.

It wasn't hypothetical, it was part of the statements in videos I've seen on the subject, and I think the city backtracked when they realized the stink they caused with this law, that would be why they got their fines refunded and the city is going to review the law.

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#52    Jor-el

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:11 PM

View Postaquatus1, on 20 February 2012 - 11:04 PM, said:

It is truly amazing how the responses in this thread so accurately reflect the exact identical process which made this a news story in the first place.

It wouldn't be news if they had submitted to the situation would it... it shows that if you fight for what you believe you can change things for the better.

America has let alot slide by them in recent years... none for the good.

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#53    eight bits

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:17 PM

Quote

  Which means they effectively won the case... which is good news, and thanks for telling us, it seems a number of us did not know, not just me, but thank goodness you are there inform us of the latest events.
According to your title, "Home Bible Studies illegal in America." which statement of yours you now acknowledge was untruthful. You can ask a moderator to edit your subtitle.

And no, the non-conforming users didn't win. The matter is continuing. This is a typical development in zoning disputes in the U.S. A token fine was imposed and waived. Otherwise, people have a way of "losing" official notices. A few hundred bucks worked like a charm in this case, didn't it?

Some compromise will be worked out, and of course, like all American real estate owners, these people can petition for a variance, or even a change in the law. Which, if you look, was all the city demanded in the first place, that the non-conforming users comply with the law that applies to everybody else. They don't have to stop doing anything, and never did. They do have to obey the law, and apparently now they are finally willing to do so.

Win-win.

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#54    The Silver Thong

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:20 PM

View PostJor-el, on 20 February 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

It wouldn't be news if they had submitted to the situation would it... it shows that if you fight for what you believe you can change things for the better.



So now we have a double edged sword. What if it were a none christian meeting, oh say a pagan gathering.

Edit: for the better

Edited by The Silver Thong, 20 February 2012 - 11:24 PM.

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#55    aquatus1

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:24 PM

View PostJor-el, on 20 February 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

It wouldn't be news if they had submitted to the situation would it... it shows that if you fight for what you believe you can change things for the better.
America has let alot slide by them in recent years... none for the good.

Like I said...

You...don't know what I am talking about, do you?


#56    _Only

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:58 PM

View Postaquatus1, on 20 February 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

Like I said...

You...don't know what I am talking about, do you?

Maybe he doesn't. And I think I do, but not 100% sure. You should elaborate.

Edited by Jerry Only, 20 February 2012 - 11:58 PM.

"I think there may be "ghost phenomenon" that may be still not fully understood or dismissed, but that doesn't make it spirits of the dead, anymore than "UFO" means "spaceship" or even "UFO" or "spaceship" is directly related to aliens, or anything else. There is way too much assumption and a baseless reliance on anecdotal lore, like when people assert this or that about the spirit world or the astral plane or Ouija board demons, or religion. I say 'says WHO?'" - Paranormalcy

#57    Jor-el

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:11 AM

View PostThe Silver Thong, on 20 February 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

So now we have a double edged sword. What if it were a none christian meeting, oh say a pagan gathering.

Edit: for the better

The same would apply, as I said before, what applies to the goose, should apply to the gander, no special handling in either case. That is what freedom is all about, if you want it for yourself, you have to allow it to others...

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#58    The Silver Thong

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:40 AM

View PostJor-el, on 21 February 2012 - 12:11 AM, said:

The same would apply, as I said before, what applies to the goose, should apply to the gander, no special handling in either case. That is what freedom is all about, if you want it for yourself, you have to allow it to others...


I agree but when one tries to impose and implement laws based on faith it becomes a gong show as to who gets there peresonal belief accepted.  Law in it's truest form can not have any god or belief envolved.  Freedom is about what we know and using that to create a society that has some sort of conformity.  If we form a society based on faith then anything is possible and allowing individuals to dictate based on faith  will end in a society that will accept anything including murder rape and genocide.


I think freedom of religion is a good thing. I do not think that freedom of religion gives one a free pass to impose on others. If you think religion is nothing more than a persoanl approach to your god so be it, that my take on it. I do not want a god telling people to tell me anything. Until god itself exposes itself god should just shut up and those speaking for him should do like wise.

If I were a god I would be so offended at all these puppets speaking for me I would use a fly swatter on them.  The most shamefull in my mind as far as god goes is trying to be his mouth piece.

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The only thing god can't do is prove he exists ?

#59    kaptn k

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 01:13 AM

View PostJor-el, on 18 February 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

Home Bible Studies illegal in America


This is an amazing news story although it is a few months old. So how is it possible that in the land of the free, this can happen. If this is the future of America, what's to say it can't happen everywhere else...

It was once the land of the free, now, not so much...

How did this happen???????????????????????????????????


Because people don't want to stand up against a tyranny in Washington. Because people think that praying will make things better (does not the bible say the lord helps those that help themselves?). It has been taking place for over 4 decades, a slow process - and they're getting to the end. don't believe me, that's fine.

The evidence is becoming more clear everyday.

We may not look like this when it is over..
Posted Image

....but under our flag..............IT WILL BE NO DIFFERENT THAN NAZI GERMANY.

The American dream................never got a proper burial.

#60    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 02:08 AM

View Postkaptn k, on 21 February 2012 - 01:13 AM, said:

How did this happen???????????????????????????????????


Because people don't want to stand up against a tyranny in Washington. Because people think that praying will make things better (does not the bible say the lord helps those that help themselves?). It has been taking place for over 4 decades, a slow process - and they're getting to the end. don't believe me, that's fine.

The evidence is becoming more clear everyday.

We may not look like this when it is over..
Posted Image

....but under our flag..............IT WILL BE NO DIFFERENT THAN NAZI GERMANY.

Watched the other day on the history channel, they stated that the germans where a christian country.  Same madness, different country.

“Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.” - Blaise Pascal




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