22 replies to this topic

[thedutchiedutch]

First of all, there ain't no such thing of 'involuntary euthanasia' in the Netherlands.
Laws on euthanasia are very strict in the Netherlands. Euthanasia without consent of the patient is impossible.

Furtermore, Euthanasia accounts for about 2 percent of deaths, not 10.

All cases of Euthanasia are done on the explicit request of the patient only.
The patient has to be terminally ill and unbearably suffering nd be of sane mind while requesting.
Two doctors have to approve after examining the case in question.

And it is simply not true that the elderly in the Netherlands wear bracelets which say 'do not euthanize'.
That is completely made up. And the elderly do not go abroad for hospital visits because they are afraid to be euthanized.
Again, that is completely made up.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

And the people he wants to listen to him will lap it up. As the days roll by America is looking more and more like a nation of pig-ignorance with fewer and fewer islands of education and sanity.

[and then]

Wearer of Hats, on 20 February 2012 - 06:01 AM, said:

And the people he wants to listen to him will lap it up. As the days roll by America is looking more and more like a nation of pig-ignorance with fewer and fewer islands of education and sanity.

While you wag the head in dismay and cast aspersions on my country it would be well that you remember that as America goes, so goes the West.  And those islands of education and sanity are probably the same elitist crowds that have gutted public education and given us teachers unions that have near single handed destroyed our ability to compete in the world.  Are all people who don't agree with your politics pig ignorant or do you reserve that label for Yanks alone?

[Grey14]

Wearer of Hats, on 20 February 2012 - 06:01 AM, said:

And the people he wants to listen to him will lap it up. As the days roll by America is looking more and more like a nation of pig-ignorance with fewer and fewer islands of education and sanity.

I always love how people love to bash the US. I would love to see how the world would fair if we just packed up all our stuff around the world and went home. We are done being the worlds punching bag here you all go, you go man the front lines for awhile cause we're going home. Be interesting to see what would happen.


While I will admit that there are a lot of people that will believe what was said in that clip there are just as many and more that do not. There are just as many people in every country in the world that are as you called it pig-ignoranant as there are here in the states so you might want to cover up your class walls before you start throwing stones.

Edited by Grey14, 23 February 2012 - 01:46 PM.

[F3SS]

Wearer of Hats, on 20 February 2012 - 06:01 AM, said:

And the people he wants to listen to him will lap it up. As the days roll by America is looking more and more like a nation of pig-ignorance with fewer and fewer islands of education and sanity.

Ill guess pig-ignorance means not liberal.
You know main reason Ron Paul has struggled is because of his foreign policy. When I hear things like you just said the more I could give two sh*ts about helping the rest of the world anymore. We do it all for everyone and get trashed. If we don't help we get trashed. You make me think it's time we stay home and cut foreign aid completely. You're undeserving. Tell me, what have you done for us lately? And if you're in America well then you do nothing to help with that kind of talk.

[kaptn k]

Wearer of Hats, on 20 February 2012 - 06:01 AM, said:

And the people he wants to listen to him will lap it up. As the days roll by America is looking more and more like a nation of pig-ignorance with fewer and fewer islands of education and sanity.

This is the posters opinion and they are entitles to it. Is America not the land of free speech? Are the posters that have lashed out at the above poster have the right to disagree but not critisize another person for their views and conclusions? And, why be offended? Is it because there is some truth to what WOH thinks about America?

I am American and I see evidence of the lack of education is abundant. On t.v. - on the streets. We are a nation that lacks education. And, we are very smug about 'being the best nation'. Many Americans do not know what is going on in Europe. Heck, many Americans can't find Europe on a map.

Just remember this, while you feel you are in the right to voice your thoughts/opinions that others to, have a right to do the same. Just because you disagree doesn't make you right and them wrong.

IMO, America needs to climb down from its self appointed rightiousness high horse and stop pretending that we know better than everyone else............we don't know better. And we are in sad shape.

Is it for real, on 23 February 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

Ill guess pig-ignorance means not liberal.
You know main reason Ron Paul has struggled is because of his foreign policy. When I hear things like you just said the more I could give two sh*ts about helping the rest of the world anymore. We do it all for everyone and get trashed. If we don't help we get trashed. You make me think it's time we stay home and cut foreign aid completely. You're undeserving. Tell me, what have you done for us lately? And if you're in America well then you do nothing to help with that kind of talk.

And RP isn't being hurt by his foriegn policies, it's because he wont tow the popular line. How can one think that by wanting to stop policing the world and getting involved in other countries disputes be a bad foriegn policy? He's rational, unlike the other canidates that only want the same old same old path to finacial ruin.

If you want to kill our nation, continue voting for politicians that will continue the same destructive policies that put us in this terrible state to begin with.

Weapons of mass destruction anyone?

Edited by kaptn k, 23 February 2012 - 06:40 PM.

[kaptn k]

And IMO - Satantorum is betting his whole bid for elction on dispensing disinformation to people that are too lazy to do their own research and find out that what he is saying is total b.s.

Those people only wait for someone to tell them something and then turn around and say "I heard this and that so it must be true"


But I wont lose any sleep, he doesn't stnd a chance of wining.

[FLOMBIE]

thedutchiedutch, on 20 February 2012 - 05:09 AM, said:

And the elderly do not go abroad for hospital visits because they are afraid to be euthanized.
Again, that is completely made up.

Actually, it is the other way round. People from Germany cross the borders to end their lives peacefully and painless.

[Arbenol68]

and then, on 23 February 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

While you wag the head in dismay and cast aspersions on my country it would be well that you remember that as America goes, so goes the West.  

I think that's completely incorrect. Murder rates, gun crime, scientific illiteracy, etc....
Western Europe (and the rest of 'the west') doesn't even come close, and never will (hopefully).

[Grey14]

Arbenol68, on 23 February 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

I think that's completely incorrect. Murder rates, gun crime, scientific illiteracy, etc....
Western Europe (and the rest of 'the west') doesn't even come close, and never will (hopefully).

That's not what he meant. There are several things that europe follows the US on just to name a few. First off your economy would tank more than it is now if the US failed. Most of the worlds largest investment banks are US firms. Why do you think the economic crisis of 2008 was so seriuos. We were about a mouse fart from a world depression that would have made our depression of the 1930's look small. Also We are the worlds military leader. Sure you can scoff at that but where would you be without us. I'm not saying The US is perfect or the best country out there, we have our problems just like everyone else, all I am saying is that we still deserve the respect we have earned. In the last few years it seems to have become almost fashionable to bash and insult us. Give us at least the same respect that you yourself would want for your country when most countries don't even do a fraction of what we do for the world.

Edited by Grey14, 23 February 2012 - 10:23 PM.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

and then, on 23 February 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

While you wag the head in dismay and cast aspersions on my country it would be well that you remember that as America goes, so goes the West.  And those islands of education and sanity are probably the same elitist crowds that have gutted public education and given us teachers unions that have near single handed destroyed our ability to compete in the world.  Are all people who don't agree with your politics pig ignorant or do you reserve that label for Yanks alone?

It's a label I save for people who willfully ignore the facts, who instead of seeking out the facts sprout whatever nonsense panders to their own beliefs.
I'm a member of TWO education unions, and unless I've been blinded by their spin and lies, all they've done is make sure schools are stocked with resources they need, the teachers have a fair deal in pay and what's required of us and making sure the people making decisions about education do so in a fair manner.
Every day we see the news another demagogue from America sprouting hate and/or igornance. How exactly are we meant to view you if all you show us is your ugly side?

[and then]

Wearer of Hats, on 23 February 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

It's a label I save for people who willfully ignore the facts, who instead of seeking out the facts sprout whatever nonsense panders to their own beliefs.
I'm a member of TWO education unions, and unless I've been blinded by their spin and lies, all they've done is make sure schools are stocked with resources they need, the teachers have a fair deal in pay and what's required of us and making sure the people making decisions about education do so in a fair manner.
Every day we see the news another demagogue from America sprouting hate and/or igornance. How exactly are we meant to view you if all you show us is your ugly side?

Perhaps unions in Australia still function honorably as they did here in the beginning.  In the US the Teacher's Union protects teachers regardless their performance or even misconduct.  Every other day here there is a new story about how our schools are failing yet per student we spend more than almost any nation in the world.  The proof of this is the performance of private and parochial schools that spend less per student yet score better on standardized testing.
As to your final point you are welcome to view America according to your own standards.  But when you spout off in a manner that smacks of elitism, in a public forum, then you can expect an American to give his opinion of you.  Moreover, I suspect if the tables were turned you would go on at length correcting an insult to your homeland.  In short, your opinion is only that,sir, an opinion.

[Arbenol68]

Grey14, on 23 February 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

That's not what he meant. There are several things that europe follows the US on just to name a few. First off your economy would tank more than it is now if the US failed. Most of the worlds largest investment banks are US firms. Why do you think the economic crisis of 2008 was so seriuos. We were about a mouse fart from a world depression that would have made our depression of the 1930's look small. Also We are the worlds military leader. Sure you can scoff at that but where would you be without us. I'm not saying The US is perfect or the best country out there, we have our problems just like everyone else, all I am saying is that we still deserve the respect we have earned. In the last few years it seems to have become almost fashionable to bash and insult us. Give us at least the same respect that you yourself would want for your country when most countries don't even do a fraction of what we do for the world.

Yes it was. The original post was about Santorum going on about a moral issue, not an economic one. And the 'pig-ignorance' was aimed at the same thing. Santorum represents everything that's worst about America. He's ill-educated, and just like on creationism, he's dishonest and misrepresents the truth by cherry picking and quote mining to bolster moral arguments he gets from a three thousand year old book of myths.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

and then, on 24 February 2012 - 12:32 AM, said:

Perhaps unions in Australia still function honorably as they did here in the beginning.  In the US the Teacher's Union protects teachers regardless their performance or even misconduct.  Every other day here there is a new story about how our schools are failing yet per student we spend more than almost any nation in the world.  The proof of this is the performance of private and parochial schools that spend less per student yet score better on standardized testing.

Well that is more down to, IMO, behaviour management and not the unions.

Quote

As to your final point you are welcome to view America according to your own standards.  But when you spout off in a manner that smacks of elitism, in a public forum, then you can expect an American to give his opinion of you.

I'm viewing America based upon what you yourselves are telling the world about yourselves.

Quote

Moreover, I suspect if the tables were turned you would go on at length correcting an insult to your homeland.  In short, your opinion is only that,sir, an opinion.

Only if you're wrong about us

[Grey14]

Arbenol68, on 24 February 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

Yes it was. The original post was about Santorum going on about a moral issue, not an economic one. And the 'pig-ignorance' was aimed at the same thing. Santorum represents everything that's worst about America. He's ill-educated, and just like on creationism, he's dishonest and misrepresents the truth by cherry picking and quote mining to bolster moral arguments he gets from a three thousand year old book of myths.

I wasn't refering to Santorum. He's a moron. I was refering to And then's post. Bit of confusion there I think.