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Dolphin's bill of rights:'non human persons'


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#1    Still Waters

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:47 PM

www.dailymail.co.uk said:

Dolphins are so intelligent that they should be thought of as ‘non-human persons’ and given their own bill of rights, it is claimed.

A coalition of scientists, philosophers and animal welfare groups have come up with a declaration of dolphin rights which they hope will one day be enshrined in law.

This would stop them being kept in zoos and waterparks, and being attacked by fishermen.

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#2    voidla

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 10:11 PM

I really like the sound of this.

Everything and nothing is impossible.

It makes sense both are what makes each other.

#3    FLOMBIE

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 10:36 PM

This sounds really stupid. At least all mammals have feelings, and they all have an individual character. Who decides which animal is smart enough, and which is not? What about crows? They are thought to be smarter than dolphins. Apes? I believe somebody did not think far enough.

On the other hand, if dolphins would be treated as persons, and crimnes commited against them would be persecuted, what about crimes commited by them? Fungi the dolphin on trial, sweet!


#4    and then

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:34 AM

View PostFLOMBIE, on 21 February 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

This sounds really stupid. At least all mammals have feelings, and they all have an individual character. Who decides which animal is smart enough, and which is not? What about crows? They are thought to be smarter than dolphins. Apes? I believe somebody did not think far enough.

On the other hand, if dolphins would be treated as persons, and crimnes commited against them would be persecuted, what about crimes commited by them? Fungi the dolphin on trial, sweet!
Well, Flombie, at least it's a start.  They are beautiful and intelligent creatures so why not?  And if one ever does get rousted for possession or something I BET they'll be able to find an attorney! :w00t:

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#5    psyche101

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:34 AM

I think it is bordering in insane. Yet, the idea has merit.

It is insane because it is not really a bill of rights is it? What rights are Dolphins demanding? If they are not asking for rights, how does anyone know they are getting what they want. And what Dolphin is going to be the founding forefather of Dolphins and sign the bill? Or in this day an age, can an electronically recorded squeak be considered a signature? Dolphins might be smart (er than most other animal species on the planet) the might be cute (in the eye of the beholder) but at the end of the day they are wild animals. Instead of thinking of flipper, think of a wild dog. It's closer to the mark. Dolphins kill and rape - humans as well as their own species. How will that fit into the bill, and will this bill protect baby Dolphins from infanticide? Absolute nonsense, its the pipe dream of someone's inner hippy.

From the article - this view of Dolphins makes one see them in a pleasent light:

There are also examples of them grieving for lost calves, feeding ailing pod mates and co-operating with fishermen when there is a meal in it for them.
In Laguna, Brazil, when a shoal of fish enters the lagoon, the dolphins herd it towards the fishermen. Any fish that escape their nets provide an easy meal.
At Dingle, south-west Ireland, a bottlenose nicknamed Fungi regularly entertains sightseers in boats.  
Perhaps the most striking example of dolphin intelligence involves Kelly, a member of a pod at the Institute for Marine Mammal Studies in Mississippi which were rewarded with fish for clearing up litter from their pool.
Each piece of litter equated to one fish. To raise her intake of fish, Kelly tore the litter into pieces and presented them one by one.
One day, she caught a gull and was given a large haul of fish for her efforts.
She then started to use the fish she won for litter picking to lure gulls into her jaws.
She also taught the tactic to her calf, which passed it on to other youngsters in the pod.


One appropriate term I have seen used for this mindset is Mystical Dolphin Love.

In reality, it's not like that, as I said, Dolphins are wild animals, just like one's on land, but in the water. Imagine a wild dog that size bounding up to you.

Quote

Dolphins are not gentle or psychic. If they could talk they would not impart eco-wisdom or deep spiritual truth. Dolphins are violent predators with a predilection for baby killing and rape. I feel it's my duty to warn you, despite the risk of insulting creatures made of hundreds of pounds of muscle and rows of sharp teeth. Throw out your rainbow dolphin painting , and check out dolphins' low-down dirty secrets:

--Dolphin sex can be violent and coercive. Gangs of two or three male bottlenose dolphins isolate a single female from the pod and forcibly mate with her, sometimes for weeks at a time. To keep her in line, they make aggressive noises, threatening movements, and even smack her around with their tails. And if she tries to swim away, they chase her down. Horny dolphins have also been known to target human swimmers -Demi Moore is rumored to have had a close encounter of the finny kind.

--Dolphins kill harbor porpoise babies. In Scotland, scientists found baby harbor porpoises washed up with horrific internal injuries. They thought the porpoises might have been killed by weapons tests until they found the toothmarks. Later, dolphins were caught on film pulping the baby porpoises-the dolphins even used their ecolocation to aim their blow at the porpoises' vital organs.

--Dolphins kill their own babies. Baby dolphins have washed up alongside the dead porpoises, and some scientists think that all the porpoise-slaughter was just practice for some old-fashioned infanticide . For other mammals like lions, killing the babies makes the females immediately ready for the next pregnancy, and maybe that's the case with dolphins, too.

The scariest part is dolphins can wreak havoc day and night without sleeping. A recent study found that dolphins could stay awake for five days straight with no loss of mental acuity. The dolphins didn't even need to make up sleep at the end of the study, though the scientists sure did.

LINK

But as I said, there might be a positive side as well. The article also states:


Quote

The bill of rights states that every individual member of the cetacean order – whales, dolphins and porpoises – has a right to life.  

Maybe we can use this to stop the Japanse Slaughters that are carried out every year. After the USA stuffed the 1982 whaling moratorium, nobody has been able to so much as slow the barbaric practise that benefits nobody and is merely an exercise in national pride. Japan is using weak excuses to kill Whales, maybe we can use a weak excuse to stop them?

So maybe the idea might be a good one. Nutty as it is.

Edited by psyche101, 22 February 2012 - 05:39 AM.

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#6    woopypooky

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:29 PM

dolphins can't have human rights unless they demand it. full stop.


#7    Rolci

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:43 PM

I couldn't agree more. Rights for the dolphins. Especially since they're third density like us. To quote again an L/LResearch transcript:

"D: Speaking of the bottom of the ocean, what can you tell me about dolphins?

I am Latwii, and my brother, we can say many things about dolphins. We, of course, do not suppose to give biology lessons, but may remark in passing that the creatures which are known to you as dolphins are much more than animals which swim in the deep, for these creatures have, for many of your years, possessed the prize of the human form which is called the extension of the brain complex known as the frontal lobes, and, therefore, this creature does have the intelligence that exceeds many of your so-called second-density creatures, and is able to communicate with those of its own kind, and other entities as well, on a level which you may describe as telepathic.

Is there any further specific information regarding this creature which you ask about at this time, my brother?

D: What is their evolutionary track? How did they become dolphins?

I am Latwii, and, my brother, in this regard we may say that the creatures known to you as dolphins have progressed upon a path which is in, shall we say, somewhat of a balance or opposition to the path which the humanoid creatures of your kind have traveled. Those of the homo sapien nature have traveled a path that has, for the most part, been a dusty one and one which has remained upon the land. The creatures known to you as dolphins have traveled a path which has been somewhat more moist. This path has included the single-celled creatures of the ocean which have developed over a period of time the nature of the vertebrate, which has included the knobby protrusion at one end known as the brain.

This continuing evolution of complexity of the nervous system has developed additional parts of this brain which have corollaries to your cortex and thinking processes. The continuing development through various forms of what you would call fishes has progressed to the aquatic form of a mammal, which has reached its zenith upon this planet in the ones which you call dolphins and some forms of the creatures which you call whales, in that these creatures have been able to develop an additional portion of the brain organ which we have referred to previously as the frontal lobes, and in this regard have activated an energy center which has allowed them the communication which might be called telepathic.

Is there any further way which we might be of service to you in this regard, my brother?

D: What’s the density of the dolphin?

I am Latwii, and, my brother, we might suggest to you that, as you are aware, many creatures upon your planet now, including the human form, possess the body of the fourth density in activation and this is also the case with the creatures known to you as dolphins."

Of course there is more about dolphins here: llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/1981/1981_1129.aspx

But then of course, who are we to give them rights, and what are rights? Food for thought.

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#8    FLOMBIE

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:21 PM

View Postand then, on 22 February 2012 - 01:34 AM, said:

Well, Flombie, at least it's a start.  They are beautiful and intelligent creatures so why not?  And if one ever does get rousted for possession or something I BET they'll be able to find an attorney! :w00t:
A start with what? Being shallow? Let's give special rights to dolphins because they are beautiful and intelligent (supposedly), and let's treat all the other animals like crap because they are not. No, I won't be going there.

Edited by FLOMBIE, 22 February 2012 - 01:23 PM.


#9    phatmanxxl

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:41 PM

Next dolphins will be voting. I can see where this is headed.

Edited by phatmanxxl, 22 February 2012 - 01:41 PM.


#10    redhen

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:45 PM

Non-human animals don't require human rights. They only need one right, the right not to be property.


#11    MJNYC

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:30 PM

Wow, this is a major step.  It's about time, but we need to realize that all animals are self aware.  Horses, primates, cats, dogs - sheesh, everyione needs to open their eyes.  

At least this is a beginning.


#12    trancelikestate

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:51 PM

View PostFLOMBIE, on 21 February 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

This sounds really stupid. At least all mammals have feelings, and they all have an individual character. Who decides which animal is smart enough, and which is not? What about crows? They are thought to be smarter than dolphins. Apes? I believe somebody did not think far enough.

On the other hand, if dolphins would be treated as persons, and crimnes commited against them would be persecuted, what about crimes commited by them? Fungi the dolphin on trial, sweet!


All animals should be treated with respect but if a line has to be drawn I think rights should come with self awareness


#13    keithisco

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:57 PM

Sometimes I despair with the comments posted on UM.:hmm:

Dolphins (and all Cetaceans for that matter) have long been postulated as having higher brain functions, in excess of Chimps, and so it is required of us "humans" to understand and respect this.The supposed "Bill of Rights" for Cetaceans is not THEIR Bill of Rights, it is simply a recognition of Homo Sapien Sapiens NOT to have the right to imprison or murder these creatures.

YES, they exhibit all of the failings of the human race, but if they are truly aware, then they have the right to live without the tyranny of Homo Sapien Sapiens, and bloodthirsty need to eat their flesh. Posted Image


#14    Rob Awesome

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 06:26 PM

They can have all the rights we can give them, humans have all kinds of rights, still doesn't stop the killing and abusing of tens of thousands of humans each year.  The only real difference is that fishing operations would have to pay a fine for killing whales and dolphins which, in the end, doesn't really benefit them.


#15    keithisco

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 07:15 PM

View PostRob Awesome, on 22 February 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

They can have all the rights we can give them, humans have all kinds of rights, still doesn't stop the killing and abusing of tens of thousands of humans each year.  The only real difference is that fishing operations would have to pay a fine for killing whales and dolphins which, in the end, doesn't really benefit them.

You are right of course, except that killing whales and dolphins gives them an economic return. There are plenty of lower order creatures ( with no sense of "being") such as Squid, Cod , Hake, Salmon etc that can feed the population.

Killing cetaceans as a a by - product of commercial fishing is unfortunately, part of the process- but it just may cause the fishing industry to pause, and reconsider the methods employed. IMO





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