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the god theory


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#1    The Pharaoh

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 01:21 AM

"who is god" , "do we need a god?" , "is god real or is it the fruit of our imagination?"
these questions and many more echoed my mind since the day i knew my place in the universe and understood my existence.
and now am 20 years old and its been almost 10 years since the first time this questions came to my mind , and i still ask myself them everyday .
before civilizations began humans were language-less creatures and thus we lacked the ability to start one but overtime We have developed somehow a sort of communication method that after many time it became today's "language" ,(( every nation have its own ))"i put that in brackets for later explanation" , and after language we humans started building societies and then it was the first time "religion" made its "debut" .
and here's my theory why religion/god is needed to start a proper civilization ,
first :

- kings and emperors and pharaohs etc,.. claimed that they were gods or sons and daughters of gods for more power and control over their own nation " so it was sort of a controlling method for mass population "

second:

- it gave people reason to live and to start a bigger civilization ,and gave less fortunate people "poor people" ,and others a reason to obey the RULES because if they don't "the god/s" will punish them in life and "AFTERLIFE" which will bring us to my third point

third:

- we always become afraid of what we don't know and the "fear of discontinuity" aka death ,so this is where "afterlife" came from ,( if u obeyed the RULES ,u shall go to (heavin) and if u don't you will spend the eternity in (hell) so it was again a control method with merits and demerits (if u do what i want u to do i will "REWARD" you with great pleasures ) but if u don't ,well no need to say because everyone know how it goes in every religion ,but if u don't well here some of the punishment ( u will suffer in the eternal hellfire for ever ).


"if they believed in our god they're with us ,and if they don't then they're our enemy" ,the nature of the animal inside us humans ,the violence like a group of chimps banishing the "not related" others ,and my prove that it not just religion look at racism ,sexism ,etc... if you're not like me then you're my enemy
i feel bad and sorry for us everyday because other people kill eachother in the name of religion , leaders now use religion to conquer other countries like they did in iraq and afghanistan under the cape of freedom but with a blood stained dagger ,all that for more Oil and land and they use religion to justify terrorism same goes for both sides arabs and non arabs for what we all call freedom.
(( every nation have its own )) as i mentioned earlier but what about nations with more than one religion? ,well they still use the smaller religion for agendas to disturb the bigger one and then control the whole population .

but do we really need a god now?
-god was a reasonable thing 5000 plus years ago when the earth was flat and it was the center of the universe
but do we really still need a god now? no not us ,but our leaders need us to still believe in god ,cause most people wont work or do anything "BY THE BOOK" or "LAW ABIDING" why?? simple because there's no such thing as afterlife ,so    "when u die its not worthy because will THERE'S NOTHING AFTER IT!!! u just die like the apple that felt from the tree ,like that tree our ancestors cut 3000 years ago and burn to keep them warm " that what most of people think eventually ,well thats what i felt after i became an atheist ,it was shocking to me as a little kid that everything i knew about god was wrong so i started researching other religions ,christianity ,budhism ,etc...but they all are the same ..then i grow up and after a while i accepted myself and the world around me and someday a thought hit my mind like a lightning ,( we cant leave religion because we are just selfish ) most of people wont help others if there's no REWARD at the end (afterlife) ,ever heard of the "bystander effect?" well here's it in a nutshell "source : wikipedia"    

(( The bystander effect or Genovese syndrome is a social psychological phenomenon that refers to cases where individuals do not offer any means of help in an emergency situation to the victim when other people are present. The probability of help has in the past been thought to be inversely related to the number of bystanders; in other words, the greater the number of bystanders, the less likely it is that any one of them will help. The mere presence of other bystanders greatly decreases intervention. This happens because as the number of bystanders increases, any given bystander is less likely to interpret the incident as a problem, and less likely to assume responsibility for taking action.))

because simply we just don't give a flying **** at first
but i do believe in the good inside us "the father who love his kids without the need of religion ,and the mother who wake up at 5:30 am to see if her kid is okay ,the friend who stand by his friend when he needed him/her " the unconditioned love
but that doesn't mean we don't have a dark side "i'll spare you from the examples"

so here's the bottomline of the god theory "man created god to make civilization" but now after the technology we have and our expanding realization of the universe and ourselves do we still need one?

"Life Is Nothing but a pure chained complicated chaos and illusions"
The Pharaoh


#2    keven3

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 06:46 AM

View PostThe Pharaoh, on 23 February 2012 - 01:21 AM, said:

... "man created god to make civilization" but now after the technology we have and our expanding realization of the universe and ourselves do we still need one?


When I outstretched my arms to God, the presence of the Holy Spirit filled my soul. Forever I was changed. I didn't fabricate the idea of God. When I reached out to him, he was there. He is not a simple construct of the mind. He is real. The more I use technology, the more I realize how little technology is in comparison to universal love, peace, and joy.

The more we know about the universe, the more we know that we don't know anything. We need God regardless of technology. Without God, there is limited meaning in the world. With God, there is meaning.

Keven


#3    Karyotype

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:02 AM

I personally believe that this
" kings and emperors and pharaohs etc,.. claimed that they were gods or  sons and daughters of gods for more power and control over their own  nation " so it was sort of a controlling method for mass population "
sums up the answer to your question.  We don't need God and never did, but the folks that want to be in power surely do need for us to need God.
JMHO

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-Thomas Jefferson-

#4    J. K.

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 05:44 PM

View PostKaryotype, on 23 February 2012 - 07:02 AM, said:

I personally believe that this
" kings and emperors and pharaohs etc,.. claimed that they were gods or  sons and daughters of gods for more power and control over their own  nation " so it was sort of a controlling method for mass population "
sums up the answer to your question.  We don't need God and never did, but the folks that want to be in power surely do need for us to need God.
JMHO

Regarding the first king to suggest he was divine: what do you think his definition of a god be?

One's reality is another's nightmare.

#5    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:15 PM

View PostThe Pharaoh, on 23 February 2012 - 01:21 AM, said:

the god theory
Hello The Pharoah:

Yes, that's exactly what it is -- theory. No one on earth has ever seen God(?); otherwise, that person wouldn't be here. Hearing 'sounds' are definitely not a sign that you are with God(?); in fact, it's far away from the truth. Everybody has the right to label himself "god" with a small "g," but it's only obvious why a person would do that. Everybody wants to be special: "Aren't you special?!"

["do we need a god?"] It doesn't hurt to think and believe it, I suppose. Truth is, we will all get the chance to be with God(?), effort or no effort. Actually, effort gets in the way, more often than not. The question is: why are you back in this world? Surely, there is a profound reason for that...

Another truth: this world matrix runs perfectly without God(?). It's designed to do exactly that. It has checks and balances and humans don't live long enough to really affect anything, unless "the powers that be" allow it. Don't you think the ever unfolding 'story' of your life is enough to keep you busy?? Just to stay on top of it all (in the "now") is a feat in itself -- surely you would agree?

God(?) is real; otherwise people wouldn't be talking about It, to begin with. It's that itch you can't seem to scratch (out).

Again, the perfect question which fits well with this thread: why are we back in this world?  :)

Edited by braveone2u, 23 February 2012 - 08:19 PM.

"Also, if they (Gospels) were written early (before 70 AD), this would mean that there would not have been enough time for myth to creep into the gospel accounts since it was the eyewitnesses to Christ's life that wrote them."

#6    The Pharaoh

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 01:01 AM

exactly its my "theory" about god but i also respect your opinion and others that replied on my post ,but the thing is this theory seems more rational to me when i think about it ,cause the whole idea that an entity that rules the universe and he or she loves you but he'll burn your soul in the eternal hell while you scream in agony "BUT HE STILL LOVE YOU" is not really convincing to me ,..i believe in good but when i see the world today i just don't see that there's a god that could allow whats happening ,children dieing for no reason others killed under the flag of religions i'm not complaining cause you can't complain to something that its not there
if there's a thing i want it would be a proof that god really exist
i really really really want to believe in god if there's one because before i become an athiest i was a regular prayer that devoted most of his day to god ,instead of playing with my friends i used to pray and the thing i was happy inside but after a while i noticed that happiness is a sort of an illusion ,like the kind of illusion you get when you watch a movie and u put yourself in the protagonist's shoes and pretend your him ,its fun and we all do it but its not the real deal its just a movie a dream inside you ,same with religion i don't get it with noah's ark's story cause i can't imagine putting two of each animals on a ship "its mentioned in the bible and quran and torah " and many stories like that , i know the first thing religious people would say is ( you can't prove god u just feel his divine soul inside you ) ,do we really feel god?? or do we just make that feeling inside our mind just to give ourselves a reason to continue without thinking that after we die there's nothing? just like a daily-social pain killer. i hope i made my point and i don't mean to offend your beliefs or anything    ,love and respect

"Life Is Nothing but a pure chained complicated chaos and illusions"
The Pharaoh


#7    The Pharaoh

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 01:05 AM

View PostJ. K., on 23 February 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

Regarding the first king to suggest he was divine: what do you think his definition of a god be?

an immortal live giver and world "CONTROLLER" that if u follow his rules he will pay you with great rewards

"Life Is Nothing but a pure chained complicated chaos and illusions"
The Pharaoh


#8    The Pharaoh

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 01:07 AM

View PostKaryotype, on 23 February 2012 - 07:02 AM, said:

We don't need God and never did, but the folks that want to be in power surely do need for us to need God.
JMHO

exactly

"Life Is Nothing but a pure chained complicated chaos and illusions"
The Pharaoh


#9    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 03:23 AM

View Postbraveone2u, on 23 February 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:



God(?) is real; otherwise people wouldn't be talking about It, to begin with. It's that itch you can't seem to scratch (out).


So then unicorns, fairies, elves, Santa Claus, the Easter bunny, Eskimos, griffins, the Loch Ness Monster, etc are all real to, right? Otherwise people wouldn't be taking about them.

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#10    Horne

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 04:27 AM

Humans are so irritating, Such a primitive way of thinking, And a primitive language.

That's what my guide said to me when I was on the Dream Plane. Or dream dimension.


#11    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 04:45 AM

View PostImaginarynumber1, on 24 February 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

So then unicorns, fairies, elves, Santa Claus, the Easter bunny, Eskimos, griffins, the Loch Ness Monster, etc are all real to, right? Otherwise people wouldn't be taking about them.
Cute, but not very, it's actually a tedious reply.

Edited by braveone2u, 24 February 2012 - 04:49 AM.

"Also, if they (Gospels) were written early (before 70 AD), this would mean that there would not have been enough time for myth to creep into the gospel accounts since it was the eyewitnesses to Christ's life that wrote them."

#12    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 06:02 AM

View PostThe Pharaoh, on 24 February 2012 - 01:01 AM, said:

exactly its my "theory" about god but i also respect your opinion and others that replied on my post ,but the thing is this theory seems more rational to me when i think about it ,cause the whole idea that an entity that rules the universe and he or she loves you but he'll burn your soul in the eternal hell while you scream in agony "BUT HE STILL LOVE YOU" is not really convincing to me ,..i believe in good but when i see the world today i just don't see that there's a god that could allow whats happening ,children dieing for no reason others killed under the flag of religions i'm not complaining cause you can't complain to something that its not there
if there's a thing i want it would be a proof that god really exist
i really really really want to believe in god if there's one because before i become an athiest i was a regular prayer that devoted most of his day to god ,instead of playing with my friends i used to pray and the thing i was happy inside but after a while i noticed that happiness is a sort of an illusion ,like the kind of illusion you get when you watch a movie and u put yourself in the protagonist's shoes and pretend your him ,its fun and we all do it but its not the real deal its just a movie a dream inside you ,same with religion i don't get it with noah's ark's story cause i can't imagine putting two of each animals on a ship "its mentioned in the bible and quran and torah " and many stories like that , i know the first thing religious people would say is ( you can't prove god u just feel his divine soul inside you ) ,do we really feel god?? or do we just make that feeling inside our mind just to give ourselves a reason to continue without thinking that after we die there's nothing? just like a daily-social pain killer. i hope i made my point and i don't mean to offend your beliefs or anything    ,love and respect

[cause the whole idea that an entity that rules the universe and he or she loves you but he'll burn your soul in the eternal hell while you scream in agony "BUT HE STILL LOVE YOU" is not really convincing to me] I'm absolutely with you on that.


[i really really really want to believe in god if there's one because before i become an athiest i was a regular prayer that devoted most of his day to god]
God(?) is not in this world.


[when i see the world today i just don't see that there's a god that could allow whats happening ,children dieing for no reason others killed under the flag of religions] Some mystics would say that it's because of a domino effect. We don't live long enough to see the whole picture. On the other hand, what are you, The Pharaoh, going to do about it? Would you add to the 'noise'? Or, would you work on yourself, be a good human being, to lessen the negativity of the ever unfolding stories of your life? The wonderful thing about living in the now is that you will realize you have a choice, always. That choice is sanctuary; this may or may not make sense to you at this moment...


[i used to pray and the thing i was happy inside but after a while i noticed that happiness is a sort of an illusion ,like the kind of illusion] Ah, your mind has distracted you. Have you ever heard of the chakra system? It has no banner of religion. Everyone has it. You may want to look in to that. Prayer is a form of quieting the mind, enough to get you centered. There are other ways, more potent ways. Don't let your mind distract you. Your heart chakra is open, but your mind-stuff is its slayer. Use your brilliant mind to develop your metaphysical body.

Edited by braveone2u, 24 February 2012 - 06:12 AM.

"Also, if they (Gospels) were written early (before 70 AD), this would mean that there would not have been enough time for myth to creep into the gospel accounts since it was the eyewitnesses to Christ's life that wrote them."

#13    MysteryX

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 06:16 AM






#14    Lion6969

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 09:47 PM

Why do you who do not believe in god, believe that god is all love, unconditional love. Why do you assume this, god does love us, but if he has attributes like the all just, or the judge, the sustainer, creator etc. Maybe if a god is not just all love but all just as well, then those who deserve what they due for any evil, get what they deserve, that would be just. ultimate justice etc.

Most of you expect accountability for your actions in this short lived life, expect justice, mercy, forgiveness, redemption etc, but deny god to be the ultimate provider of these and that we will be accountable for our actions. You want accountability here but can't reconcile why god would hold you accountable, or even judge you and punish you.


#15    shadowhive

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:24 PM

View PostLion6969, on 24 February 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

Why do you who do not believe in god, believe that god is all love, unconditional love. Why do you assume this, god does love us, but if he has attributes like the all just, or the judge, the sustainer, creator etc. Maybe if a god is not just all love but all just as well, then those who deserve what they due for any evil, get what they deserve, that would be just. ultimate justice etc.

Most of you expect accountability for your actions in this short lived life, expect justice, mercy, forgiveness, redemption etc, but deny god to be the ultimate provider of these and that we will be accountable for our actions. You want accountability here but can't reconcile why god would hold you accountable, or even judge you and punish you.

See there's something slightly flawed in that point.

Yes most of us expect some form of justice in this life, but we expect it to be fair. For instance a murder and someone that drink drives both did something wrong, but they both get different and appropriate forms of justice. The punishment (as they say) fits the crime. In life there are many things that we can do wrong, but the appropriate form of justice for each thing 'fits the crime'. There's not an answer that covers everything. ie execution for someone that had a parking ticket would be unacceptable, but for someone that committed genocide would be considered acceptable (likewise giving someone a fine for genocide would be equally unacceptable).

The problem with 'god's justice' is that the concept of fitting the punishment to the crime is alien. There's only one punishment (eternal death) and almost anything can be deemed worthy of it (even things that wouldn't be deemed as worthy of such treatment like disbelief in god is treated as such). God's supposed to be this supremely wise and superior entity, but has the black/white morality of a child. THAT is why people have a problem with 'god's justice' lion: that it's not justice at all.

Edited by shadowhive, 24 February 2012 - 10:28 PM.

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