112 replies to this topic

[Beckys_Mom]

and then, on 27 February 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

.  But NEVER would it cross my mind to harm someone physically for such an offense. You seem to think otherwise,

Take a look at the following quote  that was made to you from myself..   below..

Beckys_Mom, on 27 February 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

You may not want to kill or destroy.. But you would be upset right?  Angry even?  

Now in the above quote.. can you see anything  ( anything at all ) that says  you would want to hurt or kill anyone?  It clearly shows i am not suggesting that at all..

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And on the occasion I have mentioned an ambush it's because that's what it was.          

I disagree  with that, when people question beliefs it is not an  ambush.. Christians, Pagans , Deists,  Muslims, Atheists and so on  all ask questions to people with different beliefs.. it is called learning how others feel and view things and why they do..

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           If you can look at the general discourse that happens between Christians and others here at UM           

I have read them for 7 years now, I think I know how they all go  by now

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         and not see them roundly being either condescended to or insulted     

You are only viewing one side using a biased view..Both sides will question each other..and both own the rights to do so ..Now  to the topic at hand..  I have questions for you if you don't mind..   See below

1 -   You call the Quran  just a book with ink on paper...   Is your bible just the same,  a book with ink on paper?
2 -  How do you view your bible - Is it holy,  special, Gods word, holds great meaning and full of guidance?  
3 - So  If you answer that your bible has special meaning... and it is most holy..    Then  how do you think Muslims view their Quran?

Thanks ..Oh and bare in mind I am in no way trying to justify   the Muslims actions and words  about killing .. I still find it a disgrace ...and an extreme overreaction.. I can understand them feeling angry and upset.. but to use death threats is a bit too far..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 28 February 2012 - 11:30 AM.

[and then]

Beckys_Mom, on 28 February 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

Take a look at the following quote  that was made to you from myself..   below..


Now in the above quote.. can you see anything  ( anything at all ) that says  you would want to hurt or kill anyone?  It clearly shows i am not suggesting that at all..



I disagree  with that, when people question beliefs it is not an  ambush.. Christians, Pagans , Deists,  Muslims, Atheists and so on  all ask questions to people with different beliefs.. it is called learning how others feel and view things and why they do..


I have read them for 7 years now, I think I know how they all go  by now



You are only viewing one side using a biased view..Both sides will question each other..and both own the rights to do so ..Now  to the topic at hand..  I have questions for you if you don't mind..   See below

1 -   You call the Quran  just a book with ink on paper...   Is your bible just the same,  a book with ink on paper?
2 -  How do you view your bible - Is it holy,  special, Gods word, holds great meaning and full of guidance?  
3 - So  If you answer that your bible has special meaning... and it is most holy..    Then  how do you think Muslims view their Quran?

Thanks ..Oh and bare in mind I am in no way trying to justify   the Muslims actions and words  about killing .. I still find it a disgrace ...and an extreme overreaction.. I can understand them feeling angry and upset.. but to use death threats is a bit too far..

The Bible in my opinion is a record of God's word.  Made of ink on paper.  There is nothing inherently holy about the object, it is the meaning that it conveys that is holy. Apparently Muslims view the OBJECT as sacred and their views give them no right to impose them on every creature on earth.  If a US service person burned the book with the intent of insulting these people it would be deplorable.  But it seems to have been an unintentional act.
And BM they have done far more than issue death threats.  In a week 40 human beings have DIED through riots and violence because of their  devotion to this object.  And if you have read these differing opinions for  7 years and "think you know how they all go now", then perhaps that's part of the problem?  That you've become accustomed to the condescension even if you don't regularly take part in it?  
And you'll have to excuse me if I haven't learned how to take a two or three paragraph statement and dissect it like a lawyer.  I respond to things that were written and I have a reasonably good ability to read for context.  If I made a mistake in your case then please accept my apologies.

[Cassea]

and then, on 28 February 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

The Bible in my opinion is a record of God's word.  Made of ink on paper.  There is nothing inherently holy about the object, it is the meaning that it conveys that is holy. Apparently Muslims view the OBJECT as sacred and their views give them no right to impose them on every creature on earth.  If a US service person burned the book with the intent of insulting these people it would be deplorable.  But it seems to have been an unintentional act.
And BM they have done far more than issue death threats.  In a week 40 human beings have DIED through riots and violence because of their  devotion to this object.  And if you have read these differing opinions for  7 years and "think you know how they all go now", then perhaps that's part of the problem?  That you've become accustomed to the condescension even if you don't regularly take part in it?  
And you'll have to excuse me if I haven't learned how to take a two or three paragraph statement and dissect it like a lawyer.  I respond to things that were written and I have a reasonably good ability to read for context.  If I made a mistake in your case then please accept my apologies.

Agreed.  The actual burning of a Bible would not upset people.  As much as the deliberate intention to try to upset people.  That would be viewed as bullying and intolerance.  Isn't it odd how many anti Christians equate a Christian being angry and rude,  to outright murder and terrorism.  As if these are equally wrong.  I don't get it.

[Beckys_Mom]

and then, on 28 February 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

The Bible in my opinion is a record of God's word.  Made of ink on paper.  There is nothing inherently holy about the object,

But it is to you Gods word.. You need the object to learn it right?  If by burning it   is like burning Gods word   to those of you that follow it  ...right?/  So the book therefore means a  lot to you all that follow it and live by it.... right?

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Apparently Muslims view the OBJECT as sacred

Their object contains  the same as what your object contains   Gods word.. and to them that is sacred.. No different from a bible  believing  Christians  ....or in your case  as you now like to address it as  - An object believing Christian ? Because as you say the bible is just an object..   you made it sound like it meant northing...I say if the object contains Gods word, then to the Christian  that  object  is no longer a mere object.. it means something

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        and their views give them no right to impose them on every creature on earth          

So Christians are the only ones that own that right? When they like to try and convert others?  ( meaning those that care to)  I see...  lol

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        And BM they have done far more than issue death threats. In a week 40 human beings have DIED through riots and violence because of their devotion to this object.  

I know that.. I am not questioning this at all...  

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  if you have read these differing opinions for 7 years and "think you know how they all go now", then perhaps that's part of the problem?  

For 7 years I have seen both sides question each other..  It is not always about slamming.. Most times it is to create a conversation and learn more..  Being paranoid  over being asked questions  only makes things worse  for that person...    

Quote

    And you'll have to excuse me if I haven't learned how to take a two or three paragraph statement and dissect it like a lawyer. I respond to things that were written and I have a reasonably good ability to read for context. If I made a mistake in your case then please accept my apologies.

I think when you get a bit more used to it all, you might not feel the same as you do at present?   Meaning you might just think of it as  nothing to get annoyed over... Always remember, people on here will ask questions and it does not matter what the belief is based on, it will get questioned..  People like to hear what others feel and so on... It is the point of many discussions ..

[hetrodoxly]

Flibbertigibbet, on 26 February 2012 - 12:45 AM, said:

Would they consider it right to burn some of the major magical and Pagan texts?

If Islam had never been invented imagine what wonders we'd have today?
What i want to burn is no business of anyone but myself, i personally believe Islam was invented by a 40 year old guy starting a protection racket so the Quran as no more relevance to me than Harry Potter, as already said Muslims destroy the Quran every week, blow up mosques, they've fought over Mecca many times and destroyed it they've even smashed the black stone, to tell the truth i don't believe a single word they say.

[SamDavies]

Again, it is the radicals and extremists. Looking for any excuse to kill. I know some Muslims and they are peaceable people, very peaceable people with a growing fear that the extremists actions are making all Muslims seem like murderous haters of everyone.

No one should throw any holy book in a bin or burn it. But sometimes people forget that such actions will set the extremists on fire and come and consume all in their path. I also think that no matter who disposed of the books they should know by now the consequences of leaving such traces behind does turn deadly. It's happened before. When will people learn that what seems irrelevant in one country is deadly in another.

[SamDavies]

hetrodoxly, on 28 February 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

If Islam had never been invented imagine what wonders we'd have today?

If Islam and Christianity had never been invented imagine what wonders we'd have today?

[hetrodoxly]

SamDavies, on 28 February 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

If Islam and Christianity had never been invented imagine what wonders we'd have today?

You could well be right, this is a "Muslim" thread so a na, na, na, na, Christians did it as well is lost on me, and if it's true they'll get the same lambasting as Muslims when i'm on a thread that's relevant,Muslims have destroyed much, what do you have on the Christians then?

Edited by hetrodoxly, 28 February 2012 - 09:38 PM.

[Yamato]

and then, on 28 February 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

The Bible in my opinion is a record of God's word.  Made of ink on paper.  There is nothing inherently holy about the object, it is the meaning that it conveys that is holy. Apparently Muslims view the OBJECT as sacred and their views give them no right to impose them on every creature on earth.  If a US service person burned the book with the intent of insulting these people it would be deplorable.  But it seems to have been an unintentional act.
And BM they have done far more than issue death threats.  In a week 40 human beings have DIED through riots and violence because of their  devotion to this object.  And if you have read these differing opinions for  7 years and "think you know how they all go now", then perhaps that's part of the problem?  That you've become accustomed to the condescension even if you don't regularly take part in it?  
And you'll have to excuse me if I haven't learned how to take a two or three paragraph statement and dissect it like a lawyer.  I respond to things that were written and I have a reasonably good ability to read for context.  If I made a mistake in your case then please accept my apologies.

If The Bible isn't inherently holy, what is, and why?

[Cassea]

Yamato, on 28 February 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

If The Bible isn't inherently holy, what is, and why?

The Holy Spirit

[Yamato]

Cassea, on 28 February 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

The Holy Spirit

And where is The Holy Spirit at?   How does the Holy Spirit manifest itself?

Cassea, on 28 February 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

The Holy Spirit

Since you're just jumping in, should I presume that you don't think the Bible is inherently holy too?

[Cassea]

Why would the Bible be inherently holy unless it was the last one in existence. Or one of the last.  There are millions of Bibles and Korans.   Neither are inherently holy.

[Beckys_Mom]

Yamato, on 28 February 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

If The Bible isn't inherently holy, what is, and why?

They are known as - The Holy  Bible..  And The Holy Quran ....Both religions will treasure them as holy and  both holy books mean a lot to those that follow them.....  Kind of like how  IE  the American flag means a lot to the Americans.. burn it and it is an insult right? Same if you burn a bible or a quran.. Only difference is.. The Christians will not issue death treats  or kill you for it..

[Yamato]

Cassea, on 28 February 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

Why would the Bible be inherently holy unless it was the last one in existence. Or one of the last.  There are millions of Bibles and Korans.   Neither are inherently holy.

Objects are holy in Christianity.  It's called 'The Holy Bible' by the way.  The fact that it's made out of paper and binding and glue doesn't de-Holify it if that's what you were thinking.

You did claim that the Holy Spirit is holy. So again, where is the Holy Spirit at? How does the Holy Spirit manifest itself?

[Yamato]

Beckys_Mom, on 29 February 2012 - 12:32 AM, said:

They are known as - The Holy  Bible..  And The Holy Quran ....Both religions will treasure them as holy and  both holy books mean a lot to those that follow them.....  Kind of like how  IE  the American flag means a lot to the Americans.. burn it and it is an insult right? Same if you burn a bible or a quran.. Only difference is.. The Christians will not issue death treats  or kill you for it..

Actually if we're going to generalize, the Christians will kill people for just about any reason you can think of actually.  Are you a "suspect"?  Look out below!   So why is it that religion is never a just pretense for killing, but government is?