16 replies to this topic

[Doug1o29]

The following are from:  "If the Church Were Christian" by Phillip Gulley.  2010.  HarperCollins Publishing, ISBN 978-0-06-169877-4.

If The Church Were Christian:

1.  Jesus would be a model for living, rather than an object of worship.

2.  Affirming our potentiel would be more important than condemning our brokenness.

3.  Reconciliation would be valued over judgement.

4.  Gracious behavior would be more important than right belief.

5.  Inviting questions would be more important than supplying answers.

6.  Encouraging personal exploration would be more important than communal uniformity.

7.  Meeting needs would be more important than maintaining institutions.

8.  Peace would be more important than power.

9.  The Church would care more about love and less about sex.

10.  This life would be more important than the afterlife.

Comment:

Doug

Edited by Paranoid Android, 29 February 2012 - 03:43 AM.
fixed topic title

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Well speaking as someone who works at a Catholic school ... we actually DO do numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 10 and do so with Church approval, guidance and support.

[Mr Walker]

As a person who has chosen to live a biblically based life, I try to live by all of those "philosophies." That is what it measn to me to BE a christian person. For example regarding no 10, the kingdom of heaven is available to all people, here and now, in this life. It already exists within us. We just have to accept its existence and it will be fully realised.
I might put no 5 differently. Something like, "maintaining an open and honest dialogue is more important than having an answer for everything." .

Edited by Mr Walker, 29 February 2012 - 11:41 AM.

[Doug1o29]

Mr Walker, on 29 February 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

As a person who has chosen to live a biblically based life, I try to live by all of those "philosophies."

Thanks, folks.  I knew there had to be some Christians out there somewhere.

Thanks, too, to whoever corrected my typo in the title.
Doug

[Mr Walker]

Doug1o29, on 29 February 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

Thanks, folks.  I knew there had to be some Christians out there somewhere.

Thanks, too, to whoever corrected my typo in the title.
Doug

Doug it may be easier for me to do this than  for some, for two reasons. I know and acknowledge, feel, respond to, the real physical power of god; both within me and in my conection to the universe around me. (Which also contains god .)

Second I chose the bible, and christianity, as a life style, as an educated atheistic adult, after god walked into my life in an indisputable fashion. It wasn't forced on me, or taught to me as a child. I did not have to chose to believe.  I studied it as I studied an academic discipline, in order to understand and make sense of what had happened to me .

After god 'announced himself" I studied and read widely, both a variety of religious forms, and many types of christianity. Eventually I decided that the only way to live comfortably with the physical power and presence of god, in and around me, was to model my self on how others had done so, in a form culturally appropriate to me.

  So I did, and it works incredibly well for me, and for those I interact with and love.

Edited by Mr Walker, 02 March 2012 - 09:52 AM.

[libstaK]

Doug1o29, on 28 February 2012 - 11:33 PM, said:

The following are from:  "If the Church Were Christian" by Phillip Gulley.  2010.  HarperCollins Publishing, ISBN 978-0-06-169877-4.

If The Church Were Christian:

1.  Jesus would be a model for living, rather than an object of worship.

2.  Affirming our potentiel would be more important than condemning our brokenness.

3. Reconciliation would be valued over judgement.

4.  Gracious behavior would be more important than right belief.

5.  Inviting questions would be more important than supplying answers.

6.  Encouraging personal exploration would be more important than communal uniformity.

7.  Meeting needs would be more important than maintaining institutions.

8.  Peace would be more important than power.

9.  The Church would care more about love and less about sex.

10. This life would be more important than the afterlife.

Comment:

Doug

Nice list, I wholeheartedly agree

All of those points are powerful, however I have highlighted my personal favorites.

No. 10 particularly - waiting to go to Heaven (eg: waiting for the rapture) = waiting to escape all the things people bring to life on earth that we don't like.

Perhaps compassion, tolerance and empathy would be better - then we could see that people are more than those actions and beliefs we currently think so little of.  

We might even see that these hatreds are often misplaced fears which just alienate and polarise us all through the act of "judgement" of those people and things we fear.  (hope this last bit makes sense, I am a little tired and can't for the life of me right now think how to reword it more concisely or clearly).

[Karlis]

Doug1o29, on 28 February 2012 - 11:33 PM, said:

The following are from:  "If the Church Were Christian" by Phillip Gulley.  2010.  HarperCollins Publishing, ISBN 978-0-06-169877-4.

If The Church Were Christian:

1.  Jesus would be a model for living, rather than an object of worship.

2.  Affirming our potentiel would be more important than condemning our brokenness.

3.  Reconciliation would be valued over judgement.

4.  Gracious behavior would be more important than right belief.

5.  Inviting questions would be more important than supplying answers.

6.  Encouraging personal exploration would be more important than communal uniformity.

7.  Meeting needs would be more important than maintaining institutions.

8.  Peace would be more important than power.

9.  The Church would care more about love and less about sex.

10.  This life would be more important than the afterlife.

Comment:

Doug

Hi Doug -- here is how I would rephrase the above phrases, without criticising what was posted.

If The Church Were Christian:

1. Jesus would be a model for living, rather than an object of worship.
Jesus would be our model for living, and also our example as how to worship God.


2. Affirming our potential would be more important than condemning our brokenness.
Affirming our potential would be based on understanding our brokenness.  

  
3. Reconciliation would be valued over judgement.
Reconciliation would result from judgement.


4. Gracious behavior would be more important than right belief.
Gracious behaviour would result from right belief.


5. Inviting questions would be more important than supplying answers.
Inviting questions would lead to understand the answers.

  
6. Encouraging personal exploration would be more important than communal uniformity.
Encouraging personal exploration would lead to communal uniformity.

  
7. Meeting needs would be more important than maintaining institutions.
Meeting needs would be the reason for institutions.

  
8. Peace would be more important than power.
Peace would impart power.

  
9. The Church would care more about love and less about sex.
The Church would care.

  
10. This life would be more important than the afterlife.
This life would lead to the afterlife.

[Volatile32]

Good philosophies, but fairly secular. Karlis' list was much better and to the point. The problem with the original list was that it left out the true nature of humans that has been forgotten over the years and that very few people will discuss,sin. If the church were Christian, it would point out that we are humans and that we are sinners and that separates us from the grace and mercy of God the father and that through Christ sacrifice we can regain that fellowship. And through that fellowship, we gain the knowledge and willingness to live accordingly to the "list". I also think that it left out the foundation of Christ being the center of Christianity without all the little rites and religious nuances that so separate the church denominations. I hope I have not overstepped my bounds here by pointing out pretty much the entire concept of the New Testament.

Edited by Lei Ren, 02 March 2012 - 04:06 PM.

[Toadie]

If The Church Were Christian: Church was a science

1. Jesus would be a model for living, rather than an object of worship.
Jesus would be our model for living, and also our example as how to worship God.
Values would be facts

2. Affirming our potential would be more important than condemning our brokenness.
Affirming our potential would be based on understanding our brokenness.
Unable to find the answer see seek a different path

3. Reconciliation would be valued over judgement.
Reconciliation would result from judgement.
Science would not judge but study, learn more

4. Gracious behavior would be more important than right belief.
Gracious behaviour would result from right belief.
Through science will help bring out the best outcome for society

5. Inviting questions would be more important than supplying answers.
Inviting questions would lead to understand the answers.
Science is about asking questions

6. Encouraging personal exploration would be more important than communal uniformity.
Encouraging personal exploration would lead to communal uniformity.
Science teaches us to question

7. Meeting needs would be more important than maintaining institutions.
Meeting needs would be the reason for institution

8. Peace would be more important than power.
Peace would impart power.


9. The Church would care more about love and less about sex.
The Church would care.


10. This life would be more important than the afterlife.
This life would lead to the afterlife.

[Cassea]

Mr Walker, on 02 March 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

Doug it may be easier for me to do this than  for some, for two reasons. I know and acknowledge, feel, respond to, the real physical power of god; both within me and in my conection to the universe around me. (Which also contains god .)

Second I chose the bible, and christianity, as a life style, as an educated atheistic adult, after god walked into my life in an indisputable fashion. It wasn't forced on me, or taught to me as a child. I did not have to chose to believe.  I studied it as I studied an academic discipline, in order to understand and make sense of what had happened to me .

After god 'announced himself" I studied and read widely, both a variety of religious forms, and many types of christianity. Eventually I decided that the only way to live comfortably with the physical power and presence of god, in and around me, was to model my self on how others had done so, in a form culturally appropriate to me.

  So I did, and it works incredibly well for me, and for those I interact with and love.

Wonderful post Mr. Walker.  As usual.  I am curious why some people seem to think "being Christian" should be upgraded to "being able to do whatever you want."  My reason for becoming Christians is in understanding that I need God and Jesus in my life to help guide me, that I'm a sinner and flawed.  Not to get God and Jesus to let me decide that whatever I feel like doing is fine and they should bend the events of the world to make my sin more potable for me.   Confusing.

[Toadie]

Being religiious or not does not entitle either one to do whatever they want.
Why do you need God or Jesus to guide you? You know what is right and what is wrong you can choose either path.

[Cassea]

Obviously the world does not know what is right and wrong.  Do we both live on the same planet?  LOL  

[Beckys_Mom]

Doug1o29, on 28 February 2012 - 11:33 PM, said:

If The Church Were Christian:

1.  Jesus would be a model for living, rather than an object of worship.
The sermon on the mount was bypassed  by far...

3.  Reconciliation would be valued over judgement.
Judgement seems to play a large part of the Christian faith.. I cannot see too many wanting to stop that... Judge not lest ye be judged  ?  Means nothing to so many

4.  Gracious behavior would be more important than right belief.
So can be most gracious...  But some think it is more important to prove how their path is the right one

5.  Inviting questions would be more important than supplying answers.
Sometimes a gracious Christian and and intelligent one will welcome questions and not complain... Some will moan over it and peg you a Christian hater..

9.  The Church would care more about love and less about sex.
I agree here... not many care to have their private sex lives out for all to judge..

10.  This life would be more important than the afterlife.
Tell that to the doomsday Christians that like to inject unwanted fear...  

Comment:
I just have thanks.. Well you put it on the skeptics side of the board  so..  lol

That's what I think anyway...I never can understand   those that use the faith like a weapon.. and condemn others for their opinions and views...  That should have been part of the list

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 02 March 2012 - 05:28 PM.

[Beckys_Mom]

Toadie, on 02 March 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

Being religiious or not does not entitle either one to do whatever they want.

So true...  Thing is, too many think  well everyone needs to be corrected and judged ..We think it is our job, even though we too are wrong doers...

If Christians believe they are sinners, then they should spend more times in trying to strive harder  and not sit judging others   who do not believe in sin

[Cassea]

That's what most Christians do  Becky's Mom.  Some whackos will go around judging.  But most of us work on ourselves.  We aren't here to save the world.  That's Jesus's job.  It's a shame that people continually repeat the lie that "most Christians" are trying to judge others.  Simply taking a minority of people who call themselves Christians (like the West Boro Baptist Church and other "Churches"  I know of,  and using that minority to promote abuse and stereotyping and bias towards Christians.  I don't know anyone in all my years who think that as a Christian our job is to judge others.  Our job is to accept God's grace and follow the example of Jesus.  Jesus forgave sinners, loved the exiles, love the prostitutes and the lepers,  helped to heal,  told us not to judge. Etc.  If people are not doing those things they are not real Christians.