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How did Egyptians light inside of pyramids?


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#166    Myles

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 02:24 PM

View PostArbitran, on 09 April 2012 - 05:48 AM, said:

I apologize if "ignore" was the wrong word--I thought retroactively that "overlooked" would be a better choice.

Are you suggesting that glass does not break into pieces, or that it will last, over thousands of years, being blasted with sand? Or under many dozens of pounds of sand and earth, or stone? Glass is not nearly as resilient in these environments as you are insinuating. I apologize sincerely for the inability to locate a good photo--the hieroglyphs I'm thinking of don't appear to be readily available on the Internet (as far as I've just searched anyway).
Seems that you are borrowing from the bigfoot enthusiasts.  "There is not any evidence because it all has detereorated".


#167    Myles

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 02:40 PM

View PostArbitran, on 07 April 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

Am I "retroactively" changing my story? No.
You do again and again in different threads.

View PostArbitran, on 07 April 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

I read the pages you linked, and I must say, they are remarkably similar to mine and my uncle's thesis. I can assure you however that prior to your links, I had never seen them before. I was honestly surprised to see that essentially our theory had been reproduced.

Here you go taking credit for being the first to come up with your absurd idea.   I believe you have taken the idea from the quacks on the other fringe sites.


#168    ShadowSot

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 06:19 PM

View PostMyles, on 09 April 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

You do again and again in different threads.

Least Cladking is consistent.

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#169    kmt_sesh

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 06:52 PM

View PostArbitran, on 09 April 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

They have presented images of the technology, and written about it. It is simply ignored by modern Egyptology. All you need is a sealed glass vial filled with any of a range of phosphorescent gases (neither of which would survive as artifacts in the desert over thousands of years)--it would through sheer physics illuminate. It is the same principle as was demonstrated by Nikola Tesla in 1893.


View PostArbitran, on 09 April 2012 - 05:48 AM, said:

I apologize if "ignore" was the wrong word--I thought retroactively that "overlooked" would be a better choice.

Are you suggesting that glass does not break into pieces, or that it will last, over thousands of years, being blasted with sand? Or under many dozens of pounds of sand and earth, or stone? Glass is not nearly as resilient in these environments as you are insinuating.

I apologize sincerely for the inability to locate a good photo--the hieroglyphs I'm thinking of don't appear to be readily available on the Internet (as far as I've just searched anyway).

There is no real textual material, per se, from Dynasty 4 that explains materials or technologies. However, from the same period the occasional tomb does show men performing any manner of industries; this is even more evidenced in tombs dating to slightly later, in Dynasty 5 and Dynasty 6. Old Kingdom private, noble, and royal tombs are a particular favorite of mine and I've spent years studying them, in depth. Publications such as these are available as free downloads and present full archaeological and (to a lesser extent) philological reports for the excavations of tombs from this era. They are not exactly thrilling reading material but they're extremely informative, and I've read them all (as have other posters, such as cormac).

Nothing in wall reliefs or paintings in Old Kingdom tombs depicts anything that might even remotely represent glass production. In fact, we know glass was not even produced natively in Egypt till around the reign of Tuthmosis III, in Dynasty 18, a thousand years after the Old Kingdom. Prior to that time, the Egyptians imported glass in ingot form from neighboring civilizations where craftsmen were more adept at the technology.

Gaden's point is well made. Egyptology is the field of study which brings the knowledge of ancient Egypt to the rest of us. Egyptologists and the myriad specialists with whom they work are the people working in those tombs, drawing and photographing and analyzing every square inch of them. Quite obviously, if there's something they missed, none of us would know about it because, well, it was missed in the original work. Therefore, claiming that there is proof of electrical production in tomb depictions that no one has seen and recorded, is idle speculation and imagination. It is not evidence.

Now, the above pertains to the archaeology and research of the Old Kingdom only. There was a tremendous length of pharaonic history following the Old Kingdom, and throughout that time the Egyptians became only more adept at materials and technologies. Tombs from later periods tend to show exponentially more depictions of workmen performing pretty much every conceivable act of labor and production known in pharaonic Egypt. Nowhere in any tomb depiction from any period is there something one can point to and say: "Look, they're making lightbulbs." Nowhere does a tomb depiction show materials or technologies that would suggest the production, storage, and distribution of electricity. Similarly, the archaeological record of pharaonic Egypt is silent on such technologies. The material culture does not yield anything suggesting it, so arguments in favor of electrical production of any sort are not in keeping with real-world, extant evidence.

In point of fact, the Egyptians made all sorts of things out of glass. From the tiniest glass beads to the most exquisite glass perfume bottles, ample quantities of ancient glass have been recovered from the archaeological sites of Egypt. No lightbulbs, however.

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#170    kmt_sesh

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 06:58 PM

View PostArbitran, on 09 April 2012 - 05:48 AM, said:

...

I apologize sincerely for the inability to locate a good photo--the hieroglyphs I'm thinking of don't appear to be readily available on the Internet (as far as I've just searched anyway).

I missed this post of yours before I submitted my previous post. There's a chance I have access to a photo or line drawing of what you're looking for--if not in my own library then through the Oriental Institute. Where does the inscription or relief appear? Whose tomb of what temple?

What I neglected to suggest in my previous post is that you offer us factual evidence to support your claim. In many if not most cases the internet is dubious to begin with, so real research is always preferable. If you know of a hieroglyphic inscription or a tomb relief that really does support your claim, it is critical to present the source to us. Any number of people here can accurately interpret Egyptian reliefs as they were meant by the Egyptians to be interpreted, and I can translate hieroglyphs.

Posted Image
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#171    questionmark

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 07:24 PM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 09 April 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

I missed this post of yours before I submitted my previous post. There's a chance I have access to a photo or line drawing of what you're looking for--if not in my own library then through the Oriental Institute. Where does the inscription or relief appear? Whose tomb of what temple?

What I neglected to suggest in my previous post is that you offer us factual evidence to support your claim. In many if not most cases the internet is dubious to begin with, so real research is always preferable. If you know of a hieroglyphic inscription or a tomb relief that really does support your claim, it is critical to present the source to us. Any number of people here can accurately interpret Egyptian reliefs as they were meant by the Egyptians to be interpreted, and I can translate hieroglyphs.

In case you can't find it, unless it is pretty obscure or discovered within the last 8 months (last time I was in Egypt to work) chances are good that I have it.

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#172    Harte

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 07:40 PM

View PostArbitran, on 09 April 2012 - 05:48 AM, said:

I apologize sincerely for the inability to locate a good photo--the hieroglyphs I'm thinking of don't appear to be readily available on the Internet (as far as I've just searched anyway).
Okay, boys, place yer bets.

Did Bool Krappi get another full-on hit?

Here's his guess:
Posted Image

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#173    Myles

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 08:14 PM

View PostHarte, on 09 April 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

Okay, boys, place yer bets.

Did Bool Krappi get another full-on hit?

Here's his guess:
Posted Image

Harte
That sure would be a big light bulb.   How is the filament staying put and not breaking off?


#174    DieChecker

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 08:26 PM

View PostShadowSot, on 09 April 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

Least Cladking is consistent.
Was. He claims to have left the site for good.

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#175    kmt_sesh

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 08:41 PM

View PostHarte, on 09 April 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

Okay, boys, place yer bets.

Did Bool Krappi get another full-on hit?

Here's his guess:
Posted Image

Harte

Oh, dear. Crap, no, it better not be that one. I'm sick of trying to shed light on the facts of that relief.

Shed light! Ha!

But really, please, it better not be that one. <_<

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#176    questionmark

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 09:06 PM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 09 April 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

Oh, dear. Crap, no, it better not be that one. I'm sick of trying to shed light on the facts of that relief.

Shed light! Ha!

But really, please, it better not be that one. <_<

Hope he did not read this before posting... would spoil the fun :devil:

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#177    Arbitran

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:02 PM

View PostMyles, on 09 April 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

You do again and again in different threads.



Here you go taking credit for being the first to come up with your absurd idea.   I believe you have taken the idea from the quacks on the other fringe sites.

Could you cite an example of a point where you believe I changed my story?

I do not know whether or not my uncle and I are the first to theorize this model, however we certainly haven't taken anything from the Internet--my uncle doesn't know how to use the INternet, and I fare only slightly better.

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison

#178    Arbitran

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:08 PM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 09 April 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

There is no real textual material, per se, from Dynasty 4 that explains materials or technologies. However, from the same period the occasional tomb does show men performing any manner of industries; this is even more evidenced in tombs dating to slightly later, in Dynasty 5 and Dynasty 6. Old Kingdom private, noble, and royal tombs are a particular favorite of mine and I've spent years studying them, in depth. Publications such as these are available as free downloads and present full archaeological and (to a lesser extent) philological reports for the excavations of tombs from this era. They are not exactly thrilling reading material but they're extremely informative, and I've read them all (as have other posters, such as cormac).

Nothing in wall reliefs or paintings in Old Kingdom tombs depicts anything that might even remotely represent glass production. In fact, we know glass was not even produced natively in Egypt till around the reign of Tuthmosis III, in Dynasty 18, a thousand years after the Old Kingdom. Prior to that time, the Egyptians imported glass in ingot form from neighboring civilizations where craftsmen were more adept at the technology.

Gaden's point is well made. Egyptology is the field of study which brings the knowledge of ancient Egypt to the rest of us. Egyptologists and the myriad specialists with whom they work are the people working in those tombs, drawing and photographing and analyzing every square inch of them. Quite obviously, if there's something they missed, none of us would know about it because, well, it was missed in the original work. Therefore, claiming that there is proof of electrical production in tomb depictions that no one has seen and recorded, is idle speculation and imagination. It is not evidence.

Now, the above pertains to the archaeology and research of the Old Kingdom only. There was a tremendous length of pharaonic history following the Old Kingdom, and throughout that time the Egyptians became only more adept at materials and technologies. Tombs from later periods tend to show exponentially more depictions of workmen performing pretty much every conceivable act of labor and production known in pharaonic Egypt. Nowhere in any tomb depiction from any period is there something one can point to and say: "Look, they're making lightbulbs." Nowhere does a tomb depiction show materials or technologies that would suggest the production, storage, and distribution of electricity. Similarly, the archaeological record of pharaonic Egypt is silent on such technologies. The material culture does not yield anything suggesting it, so arguments in favor of electrical production of any sort are not in keeping with real-world, extant evidence.

In point of fact, the Egyptians made all sorts of things out of glass. From the tiniest glass beads to the most exquisite glass perfume bottles, ample quantities of ancient glass have been recovered from the archaeological sites of Egypt. No lightbulbs, however.

Well-said, kmt_sesh. I was not citing depictions which are undocumented--my uncle has pictures and an archaeological journal which display them clearly. I couldn't locate them on the Internet unfortunately.
As for glass and glass production, my uncle and I are convinced the ancient Egyptians had both--the glass though likely has either not been found, or has been interpreted incorrectly. Depictions and descriptions of such things inside of temples and tombs are the evidence my uncle cites.

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison

#179    Arbitran

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:10 PM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 09 April 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

I missed this post of yours before I submitted my previous post. There's a chance I have access to a photo or line drawing of what you're looking for--if not in my own library then through the Oriental Institute. Where does the inscription or relief appear? Whose tomb of what temple?

What I neglected to suggest in my previous post is that you offer us factual evidence to support your claim. In many if not most cases the internet is dubious to begin with, so real research is always preferable. If you know of a hieroglyphic inscription or a tomb relief that really does support your claim, it is critical to present the source to us. Any number of people here can accurately interpret Egyptian reliefs as they were meant by the Egyptians to be interpreted, and I can translate hieroglyphs.

Excellent. I didn't notice this post before I answered to your previous, either.

I'll have to ask my uncle the specific tombs and temples which he cites. I'll call him as soon as I get a chance.

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison

#180    Arbitran

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:11 PM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 09 April 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

Oh, dear. Crap, no, it better not be that one. I'm sick of trying to shed light on the facts of that relief.

Shed light! Ha!

But really, please, it better not be that one. <_<

It is not. You can lay your worries to rest on that point.

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison




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