14 replies to this topic

[Antilles]

http://www.history.n...aqs/faq15-2.htm

I have always thought that the disappearance of Flight 19 was one of the great mysteries of the Bermuda Triangle.

But did Taylor suffer from spatial disorientation? Like JFK JNR.

[DBunker]

Antilles, on 06 March 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

http://www.history.n...aqs/faq15-2.htm

I have always thought that the disappearance of Flight 19 was one of the great mysteries of the Bermuda Triangle.

But did Taylor suffer from spatial disorientation? Like JFK JNR.

Maybe.... that in combination with instrument faliur of some sort can be dangerous to pilots.

[CRYSiiSx2]

I believe the Bremuda and Dragon's triangle are just areas with strange magnetic fields that can also mess with you mind a bit.

[Antilles]

Other Navy Avengers have been found in the ocean surrounding Ft Lauderdale and the coast of Miami. They can't all have been piloted by men suffering from spatial disorientation.
It could well be that there is a magnetic disturbance in the area that shifts compasses from their true bearing.

But still, Taylor and others on the flight were in radio comm with Ft Lauderdale and other stations.

It's an interesting puzzle.

[scowl]

Antilles, on 07 March 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Other Navy Avengers have been found in the ocean surrounding Ft Lauderdale and the coast of Miami. They can't all have been piloted by men suffering from spatial disorientation.

Planes crash all the time for all kinds of reasons, especially when they're training new pilots. Before satellites, we didn't have much luck in predicting weather in the Caribbean so many planes found themselves trapped in bad weather at night. Some didn't make it back.

Most of the Navy planes that went down in that area during World War II were on patrols looking for U-boats. These patrols went non-stop 24 hours a day for months. Naturally some of these patrols involved tired pilots and planes with mechanical problems. Throw in the unpredictable weather and it's no surprise there were many crashes and ditches.

Even today it's not the safest area for small planes to fly in. You can find your way to many airports in the Bahamas by looking down at the wreckage of planes that didn't make it.  

[Antilles]

scowl, on 07 March 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

Planes crash all the time for all kinds of reasons, especially when they're training new pilots. Before satellites, we didn't have much luck in predicting weather in the Caribbean so many planes found themselves trapped in bad weather at night. Some didn't make it back.

Most of the Navy planes that went down in that area during World War II were on patrols looking for U-boats. These patrols went non-stop 24 hours a day for months. Naturally some of these patrols involved tired pilots and planes with mechanical problems. Throw in the unpredictable weather and it's no surprise there were many crashes and ditches.

Even today it's not the safest area for small planes to fly in. You can find your way to many airports in the Bahamas by looking down at the wreckage of planes that didn't make it.  

I get what you're saying and sure, that would account for a lot of planes that go missing there. But there has to be something more. Tired pilots, inexperienced pilots, bad weather,
equipment failure, have I left out any other rational reasons? It's just a lot of planes in a reasonably small area.

I do find the reports of missing time interesting. No, I don't think these people have been abducted by little green men but it is an interesting phenomenon.

Unless they're all lying.

Which brings me, in a roundabout way, back to Flight 19. The Mariner that was sent up to look for them disappeared - it was a flying bomb apparently so no mystery there.

But still - why did Taylor and his men get it so wrong?

[scowl]

Antilles, on 08 March 2012 - 06:39 AM, said:

I get what you're saying and sure, that would account for a lot of planes that go missing there. But there has to be something more.

No there doesn't. Sorry.

Quote

Tired pilots, inexperienced pilots, bad weather,
equipment failure, have I left out any other rational reasons? It's just a lot of planes in a reasonably small area.

Go back to World War II when U-boats were swarming around the Caribbean sinking everything in sight. The Navy had constant patrols all day and all night in all kinds of weather using inexperienced and overworked pilots flying poorly maintained planes. Miami was the main port and many pilots didn't make it all the way back there. The sea floor is littered with these old planes.

Quote

But still - why did Taylor and his men get it so wrong?

They were disoriented. You could ask the same question about hundreds of CFT's: "Controlled Flights into Terrain". They're very common and that's why they've flight instrumentation has been designed to prevent them. Unfortunately pilots sometimes choose to ignore the instruments and die.

The Bermuda Triangle myth has been debunked. The area really doesn't have a significantly higher number of airplane crashes per flight hour than anyplace else in the country.

[Amerix]

Quote

Planes crash all the time for all kinds of reasons

Exactly.  Just look at India lately. They have crashed more planes than some countries have in their entire air forces.

[DONTEATUS]

Cpl599, on 08 March 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

Exactly.  Just look at India lately. They have crashed more planes than some countries have in their entire air forces.

They really need to print the flight mannuals in the country of origin`s language ! Flaps up .berry,good indeedey !

[PersonFromPorlock]

Just after WW2, the Air Force had a major accident rate of around 80 crashes per 100,000 flying hours. For the last fifty years or so, it's been around 1.5 crashes per 100,000 flying hours. That should give readers some idea of how badly trained wartime pilots were.

[scowl]

PersonFromPorlock, on 09 March 2012 - 01:26 AM, said:

Just after WW2, the Air Force had a major accident rate of around 80 crashes per 100,000 flying hours. For the last fifty years or so, it's been around 1.5 crashes per 100,000 flying hours. That should give readers some idea of how badly trained wartime pilots were.

As well as how much equipment, instrumentation and maintenance has improved. Weather prediction has also played a small role.

[spud the mackem]

PersonFromPorlock, on 09 March 2012 - 01:26 AM, said:

Just after WW2, the Air Force had a major accident rate of around 80 crashes per 100,000 flying hours. For the last fifty years or so, it's been around 1.5 crashes per 100,000 flying hours. That should give readers some idea of how badly trained wartime pilots were.

Hi,I read somewhere that the average "life" of a Brit fighter pilot ,after he passed his training time and got his "wings",during WW2,was less than 5 weeks,during the Battle of Britain,and some of them were only 19yrs old...We will remember them...Brave Lads All.

[DONTEATUS]

If you gotta go theres no better way than doing something you Love ! A mystery for the ages ! Someday maybe we shall stumble across the Flight 19 planes , That would be a great day for all !
I really dont think they will show up in the desert in perfect condition !

[spud the mackem]

DONTEATUS, on 10 March 2012 - 12:08 AM, said:

If you gotta go theres no better way than doing something you Love ! A mystery for the ages ! Someday maybe we shall stumble across the Flight 19 planes , That would be a great day for all !
I really dont think they will show up in the desert in perfect condition !

   Ha ,you've seen the movie,that was a Brit P&O cargo ship,which I last saw in the Suez Canal,cheers.

[Antilles]

scowl, on 08 March 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

No there doesn't. Sorry.


Go back to World War II when U-boats were swarming around the Caribbean sinking everything in sight. The Navy had constant patrols all day and all night in all kinds of weather using inexperienced and overworked pilots flying poorly maintained planes. Miami was the main port and many pilots didn't make it all the way back there. The sea floor is littered with these old planes.


They were disoriented. You could ask the same question about hundreds of CFT's: "Controlled Flights into Terrain". They're very common and that's why they've flight instrumentation has been designed to prevent them. Unfortunately pilots sometimes choose to ignore the instruments and die.

The Bermuda Triangle myth has been debunked. The area really doesn't have a significantly higher number of airplane crashes per flight hour than anyplace else in the country.

Perhaps you should have read the original piece that I posted. It wasn't a fluff piece as you suggest.

We now know that FT-28 took the lead sometime after the turn north on the second leg, thinking that his students were on a wrong heading. We know that FT-28 would not switch to the emergency radio frequency for fear of losing contact with his flight. We also know that there were strong differences of opinion between the instructor and the students about where they were. The instructor, familiar with the Florida Keys, with both compasses out and with evidently no concept of time, could very well have mistaken the cays of the northern Bahamas for the Keys and the water beyond for the Gulf of Mexico.


But the students, having flown the area before, appeared to know exactly where they were and it was not the Keys or the Gulf. The lead passed back and forth between FT-28 and a student, and land was never reached as the flight zigzagged through the area north of the Bahamas.


Toward the end, the low ceiling and daytime ten-mile visibility were replaced by rain squalls, turbulence and the darkness of winter night. Terrific winds were encountered and the once tranquil sea ran rough. They would "fly towards shore," the better to be rescued.


Valiantly trying to keep his flight together in the face of most difficult flying conditions, the leader made his plan: When any aircraft got down to ten gallons of fuel, they would all ditch together. When that fateful point was reached, we can only imagine the feelings of the 14 men of Flight 19 as they descended through the dark toward a foaming, raging sea and oblivion.


Former TBM pilots that we questioned express the opinion that an Avenger attempting to ditch at night in a heavy sea would almost certainly not survive the crash. And this, we feel, was the case with Flight 19, the Lost Patrol. The aircraft most probably broke up on impact and those crewmen who might have survived the crash would not have lasted long in cool water where the comfort index was lowered by the strong winds. This last element, while only an educated guess, seems to satisfy this strange and famous "disappearance."