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Hedonism: Whatever makes you happy do it!


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#1    Arpee

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:15 PM

Doesn't this seem like the most natural way of living? Whatever makes you happy, to just do it?

According to our bodies:


Pleasure = Good

Pain = Bad


Shouldn't this apply to everything, our body AND or thoughts and actions?

"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." - 1 John 4:7-8

#2    shadowhive

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:19 PM

View PostArpee, on 06 March 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

Doesn't this seem like the most natural way of living? Whatever makes you happy, to just do it?

According to our bodies:


Pleasure = Good

Pain = Bad


Shouldn't this apply to everything, our body AND or thoughts and actions?

I think it probably would be the best way of living, with a secondary clause: as long as it doesn't intentionally harm people. After all some murderers and rapists do what they do for pleasure so such a clause is necessary for it to be workable.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
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#3    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:20 PM

View Postshadowhive, on 06 March 2012 - 11:19 PM, said:

I think it probably would be the best way of living, with a secondary clause: as long as it doesn't intentionally harm people. After all some murderers and rapists do what they do for pleasure so such a clause is necessary for it to be workable.

That's pretty much how I live my life. You know, minus the whole harming people bit.

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#4    markdohle

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:21 PM

View PostArpee, on 06 March 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

Doesn't this seem like the most natural way of living? Whatever makes you happy, to just do it?

According to our bodies:


Pleasure = Good

Pain = Bad


Shouldn't this apply to everything, our body AND or thoughts and actions?


Well people are dying from dieases because they do that.  I have some health issues that have come about partly by how I eat, taste good, pleasure but bad for me.  Also in the sexual arena there is lots that can be harmful to both parties, rape is an example as well as sexual abuse, or those who use others for sexual pleasure through the white slavery market.  Then there is addiction to different substances that reak havoc in life, all because pain is being avoided at all cost.  

Perhaps you are talking about simple pleasures that lead to a deeper and better life, like Epicurius talked about, then I agree with you.  A good question.


Quote

Epicurus conceived of pleasure in two ways. "Kinetic" pleasure is that pleasure felt while performing an activity, such as eating or drinking. "Katastematic" pleasure is that pleasure felt while being in a state. This is the pleasure of not being disturbed, of being free from pain. Both types of pleasure occur in the body and the soul. The absence of pain (katastematic pleasure) in the soul (ataraxia), though, is the highest good for Epicurus.

Epicurus has often been misunderstood as a "sensualist." Cicero, an avowed Stoic, seemed to think that kinetic pleasure was also an end for Epicurus (De Finibus II.31–32). But this does not seem to be correct. While kinetic pleasures are desirable for Epicurus, they are not always to be pursued. In fact, it seems that they should be pursued only when they contribute to ataraxia (untroubledness). In some cases it might even be necessary to endure pain in order to preserve or contribute to ataraxia.


Read more: http://science.jrank...n-Pleasure.html

peace
mark


Edited by markdohle, 06 March 2012 - 11:23 PM.


#5    Arpee

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:38 PM

Markdohle, thank you so much for bringing light into this. I knew there was SOMETHING I wasn't understanding...


So for Hedonism is not the same as Sensualism, and Epicurus defined pleasure as "absence of pain; i.e the natural state". So, for Epicurus, Pleasure is actually Peace (inner peace).

It's interesting how similar Stoicism and Hedonism is, if this is the case... What would be the real difference?

"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." - 1 John 4:7-8

#6    markdohle

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:55 PM

View PostArpee, on 06 March 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

Markdohle, thank you so much for bringing light into this. I knew there was SOMETHING I wasn't understanding...


So for Hedonism is not the same as Sensualism, and Epicurus defined pleasure as "absence of pain; i.e the natural state". So, for Epicurus, Pleasure is actually Peace (inner peace).

It's interesting how similar Stoicism and Hedonism is, if this is the case... What would be the real difference?


The Stoics believed in a world soul or God, though more pantheistic in nature, not personal.  Also in learning to control the destructive emotions leading away from determenism.  Epicurius was an atomic materialist, no God just random chance.  I like Epicurius and the Stoics, both are well worth reading and mediatating on.  If Epicurious was better understood I think our culture would be quite a bit different my friend.  Both theist and non-theist can benefit by reading these wise men from the past.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoics
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Epicureanism

Peace
Mark

Edited by markdohle, 06 March 2012 - 11:56 PM.


#7    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:57 PM

View Postmarkdohle, on 06 March 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

Well people are dying from dieases because they do that.  I have some health issues that have come about partly by how I eat, taste good, pleasure but bad for me.  Also in the sexual arena there is lots that can be harmful to both parties, rape is an example as well as sexual abuse, or those who use others for sexual pleasure through the white slavery market.  Then there is addiction to different substances that reak havoc in life, all because pain is being avoided at all cost.  

Perhaps you are talking about simple pleasures that lead to a deeper and better life, like Epicurius talked about, then I agree with you.  A good question.




Good points you raise and I feel that i must add that you must temper any lifestyle with knowledge or you are running sever risks.

"A cat has nine lives. For three he plays, for three he strays, and for the last three he stays."


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RAPTORS! http://www.unexplain...pic=233151&st=0


#8    I Am Not Resisting

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 04:02 AM

My husband seems to live his life like this with no regard to how it affects me or our marriage.  So no, I don't think it's always the best course of action.

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#9    H.H. Holmes

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 04:09 AM

View Postshadowhive, on 06 March 2012 - 11:19 PM, said:

I think it probably would be the best way of living, with a secondary clause: as long as it doesn't intentionally harm people. After all some murderers and rapists do what they do for pleasure so such a clause is necessary for it to be workable.

So as long as the harm to society or other individuals is unintentional, then it is alright to be a hedonist?

If my hedonism unintentionally killed someone else (say I had too many drinks at the bar and subsequently killed a person in a crash on my way home), then I shouldn't change my hedonistic lifestyle because I didn't mean for it to happen? Interesting...

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The day which we fear as our last is but the birthday of eternity.-Lucius Annaeus Seneca
You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.-Mohandas Gandhi

#10    H.H. Holmes

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 04:15 AM

View PostI Am Not Resisting, on 07 March 2012 - 04:02 AM, said:

My husband seems to live his life like this with no regard to how it affects me or our marriage.  So no, I don't think it's always the best course of action.

Hedonists often don't realize that their overconsumption and self-centered behavior is subject to the law of diminishing returns.

The hedonist overdoes pleasurable activities so much that their psyche becomes immune the pleasure that said activities used to bring. Just like a serial killer who started out as a simple voyeur or peeping tom, then escalated their behavior to real violence to get a bigger rush. A hedonist always needs a new high because they don't have the self control or sense to moderate their impulses.

Knowledge Speaks, Wisdom Listens- Jimi Hendrix
Admiration for a quality or an art can be so strong that it deters us from striving to possess it.-Friedrich Nietzsche
The day which we fear as our last is but the birthday of eternity.-Lucius Annaeus Seneca
You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.-Mohandas Gandhi

#11    Habitat

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 04:19 AM

There is a certain irreducible complexity to life, and Arpee seems to want to simplify things beyond that. It is called the Human Condition, and it is a mixed bag. How could it be otherwise ?


#12    shadowhive

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 04:22 AM

View PostH.H. Holmes, on 07 March 2012 - 04:09 AM, said:

So as long as the harm to society or other individuals is unintentional, then it is alright to be a hedonist?

If my hedonism unintentionally killed someone else (say I had too many drinks at the bar and subsequently killed a person in a crash on my way home), then I shouldn't change my hedonistic lifestyle because I didn't mean for it to happen? Interesting...

That's not what I mean at all.

People still need to have a degree of responsibility and common sense. ie it's ok to have a few too many drinks if you're not going to be driving.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
"There's the trouble with fanatics. They're easy to manipulate, but somehow they take everything five steps too far."
"The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevent, it's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."

#13    I Am Not Resisting

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 04:49 AM

View PostH.H. Holmes, on 07 March 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

Hedonists often don't realize that their overconsumption and self-centered behavior is subject to the law of diminishing returns.

The hedonist overdoes pleasurable activities so much that their psyche becomes immune the pleasure that said activities used to bring. Just like a serial killer who started out as a simple voyeur or peeping tom, then escalated their behavior to real violence to get a bigger rush. A hedonist always needs a new high because they don't have the self control or sense to moderate their impulses.
I wish I could get him to see it like that.  Thank you for your insight into that, I don't know why but it's a relief to hear someone say that, lol.

-Don't judge me.
-Did you just say "Don't touch me"?  We're in public!

#14    Arbenol

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 05:39 AM

Steven Pinker alludes to this in his book "The Better Angels of Our Nature". He points to a sharp increase in violent crime (including sexual violence) during the 1960s. A phenomenon that was consistent across all 'western' nations. That this coincided with a cultural change amongst many that promoted a "if it feels good, do it" attitude, is not insignificant.

Worth a read if you've got the time.


#15    Arpee

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 05:48 AM

View PostArbenol68, on 07 March 2012 - 05:39 AM, said:

Steven Pinker alludes to this in his book "The Better Angels of Our Nature". He points to a sharp increase in violent crime (including sexual violence) during the 1960s. A phenomenon that was consistent across all 'western' nations. That this coincided with a cultural change amongst many that promoted a "if it feels good, do it" attitude, is not insignificant.

Worth a read if you've got the time.

Here are some interesting quotes:

“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
― Thomas Jefferson

“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
― Thomas Jefferson

View PostH.H. Holmes, on 07 March 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

Hedonists often don't realize that their overconsumption and self-centered behavior is subject to the law of diminishing returns.

The hedonist overdoes pleasurable activities so much that their psyche becomes immune the pleasure that said activities used to bring. Just like a serial killer who started out as a simple voyeur or peeping tom, then escalated their behavior to real violence to get a bigger rush. A hedonist always needs a new high because they don't have the self control or sense to moderate their impulses.

Where are you getting this information from? Hedonists actually take pleasure in even the simplest things in life. It's when you stop focusing on the pleasure of the small things that things become "blase".

View PostI Am Not Resisting, on 07 March 2012 - 04:49 AM, said:

I wish I could get him to see it like that.  Thank you for your insight into that, I don't know why but it's a relief to hear someone say that, lol.

You probably feel relief that this person is agreeing with you, maybe.

People are so focused on changing others. They want to manipulate people and LIFE into what THEY want it to be instead of understanding that they are doing the impossible.

Even if you can scare some people into letting you control them, you still can get every single person under your control, and if you do, eventually people we thirst for their NATURAL freedom and happiness once again and the calling will get stronger and stronger.

Edited by Arpee, 07 March 2012 - 05:55 AM.

"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." - 1 John 4:7-8




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