1828 replies to this topic

[Gaden]

nopeda, on 11 October 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

There are objects moving toward us at high velocities in space. The combination of that velocity PLUS the 186K miles per second light leaves the object from BOTH need to be accounted for, and blue shifting shows that it DOES have an influence on light. Why the velocity doesn't APPEAR TO BE influenced is what's in question. In reality it might be influenced both by the combined velocity AND whatever it is that makes the adjustment to it when it gets to areas of space where humans have been able to test it.

In 1905, Albert Einstein postulated that the speed of light with respect to any inertial frame is independent of the motion of the light source

[Gaden]

nopeda, on 11 October 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

... There are also carvings of vehicles that appear to represent air vehicles and none of them look like they were carved to represent something else and they just fell apart extremely coincidentally in a way that made them all look like air vehicles. That's just how it is.

The carving has been explained, ad nauseum. They are carvings over carvings, that is just how it is. Since it is your main argument, I understand why you will not admit you are wrong. Got anything else? The fact that you are still referring to the show "Ancient Aliens" is further proof that you have no desire to learn the truth. 118 pages since march and you still have not made a case. Color me done.

[synchronomy]

nopeda, on 11 October 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

There are objects moving toward us at high velocities in space. The combination of that velocity PLUS the 186K miles per second light leaves the object from BOTH need to be accounted for, and blue shifting shows that it DOES have an influence on light. Why the velocity doesn't APPEAR TO BE influenced is what's in question. In reality it might be influenced both by the combined velocity AND whatever it is that makes the adjustment to it when it gets to areas of space where humans have been able to test it.

The relative velocities ARE accounted for.  It's YOU that cannot comprehend it.
Did you watch the video I posted under post #1727?
That was for your benefit.

Edited by synchronomy, 11 October 2012 - 10:59 PM.

[nopeda]

Gaden, on 11 October 2012 - 10:45 PM, said:

Quote

nopeda, on 11 October 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:
There are objects moving toward us at high velocities in space. The combination of that velocity PLUS the 186K miles per second light leaves the object from BOTH need to be accounted for, and blue shifting shows that it DOES have an influence on light. Why the velocity doesn't APPEAR TO BE influenced is what's in question. In reality it might be influenced both by the combined velocity AND whatever it is that makes the adjustment to it when it gets to areas of space where humans have been able to test it.

In 1905, Albert Einstein postulated that the speed of light with respect to any inertial frame is independent of the motion of the light source

The motion of the light source relative to what?

[nopeda]

Gaden, on 11 October 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

Quote

nopeda, on 11 October 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:
... There are also carvings of vehicles that appear to represent air vehicles and none of them look like they were carved to represent something else and they just fell apart extremely coincidentally in a way that made them all look like air vehicles. That's just how it is.

The carving has been explained, ad nauseum. They are carvings over carvings, that is just how it is. Since it is your main argument, I understand why you will not admit you are wrong. Got anything else? The fact that you are still referring to the show "Ancient Aliens" is further proof that you have no desire to learn the truth. 118 pages since march and you still have not made a case. Color me done.

Regardless of what you do or don't do they don't look like they were carved to represent something else and they just fell apart extremely coincidentally in a way that made them all look like air vehicles OR THAT people carved over original carvings extremely coincidentally in a way that made them all look like air vehicles. That's just how it is and always will be unless something changes the carvings.

[nopeda]

synchronomy, on 11 October 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

The relative velocities ARE accounted for.  It's YOU that cannot comprehend it.
Did you watch the video I posted under post #1727?
That was for your benefit.

My connection speed is too slow to watch videos. Why don't you just tell me what they say makes the adjustment? If you would say time dilation then you would need to explain how it could adjust the light from all the countless different velocities of different light sources in the universe so they all impact the area where humans can test at the same velocity relative to them. If every light source had the same velocity relative to Earth then time would only need to make one adjustment, but since the velocities are countless it would most certainly need to make many many different types of adjustments, both in a positive and negative way accounting for velocities toward and away from us.

Edited by nopeda, 15 October 2012 - 10:11 PM.

[booNyzarC]

nopeda, on 15 October 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

My connection speed is too slow to watch videos.

Relative to what?

nopeda, on 15 October 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

Why don't you just tell me what they say makes the adjustment?

Relative to what?

nopeda, on 15 October 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

If you would say time dilation then you would need to explain how it could adjust the light from all the countless different velocities of different light sources in the universe so they all impact the area where humans can test at the same velocity relative to them.

Relative to what?

nopeda, on 15 October 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

If every light source had the same velocity relative to Earth then time would only need to make one adjustment, but since the velocities are countless it would most certainly need to make many many different types of adjustments, both in a positive and negative way accounting for velocities toward and away from us.

Relative to what?

[DieChecker]

nopeda, on 15 October 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

Why don't you just tell me what they say makes the adjustment?

There is no adjustment.

If there was an adjustment, there would be no Red-Shift/Blue-Shift. Since we (everyone everywhere) do see the red-shift/blue-shift then there can not be any adjustment, and the only answer is that the velocity of the emitter only affects the energy level (wavelength) of the emitted light. c is a constant (in near vacuum).

[synchronomy]

nopeda, on 15 October 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

My connection speed is too slow to watch videos. Why don't you just tell me what they say makes the adjustment? If you would say time dilation then you would need to explain how it could adjust the light from all the countless different velocities of different light sources in the universe so they all impact the area where humans can test at the same velocity relative to them. If every light source had the same velocity relative to Earth then time would only need to make one adjustment, but since the velocities are countless it would most certainly need to make many many different types of adjustments, both in a positive and negative way accounting for velocities toward and away from us.

It's ironic that the discussion relates to the speed of light and your connection speed is insuffient for the video.  I wish you could watch it.  A least save the link so at somepoint you can.

Time and space distort so that light speed is always constant to the observer.  It is a hard concept to understand, but time and space are not absolute.  Think of them both as being elastic and they "slosh" back and forth between each other.
We think of empty space as being just that, empty.  If, indeed, it were empty, then the idea of having 2 points separated by a certain distance would be impossible.  If space were "empty", then 2 points in space, by definition would occupy the same location.  In order for them to have separation, something must be between them which is space.  Space is like a fabric or matrix.  It can bend, twist, and stretch.
Space, itself, is constantly expanding and the mind boggling thing is that the expansion is accelerating.  The entire universe is expanding faster today than it was 5 minutes ago, and a lot faster than 1 billion years ago.

The faster an object travels, the more space and time distort around it relative to an observer.  This accounts for the differing adjustments necessary for the countless objects we can see in the universe.  It's all done automatically for us.

When the ISS crews return to Earth after about 6 months in space they have aged several milliseconds less than us, and clocks they take with them have lost time also.
Estimates vary, but if you were to ride a spaceship at lightspeed away from earth for 1 year, then turn around and come back again in 1 year, you would only age 2 years.  Incredibly your family, your children, your grandchildren and many generations of your decendants would have lived normal lifespans and all be dead and gone.  You would have one helluva stack of newpapers to read to catch up.
If a rocket went flying past us near light speed, it would look to us like it had been dramatically shortened.  If it had a clock on board that we could hear ticking, the clock would be running very slowly from our perspective.

No matter where light is reaching earth from, if we measure the speed of light from any star or galaxy no matter how far away it is or how fast it is travelling either towards us or away from us, the light is travelling about 671,000,000 miles per hour.  The only thing that ever changes is it's frequency never the velocity.
It's hard to get your head around this because we live in a world where everything is constant, including time, because we move very slowly.

Hope that helps a bit.

Edited by synchronomy, 16 October 2012 - 01:12 AM.

[nopeda]

booNyzarC, on 15 October 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

Relative to what?
Relative to what?
Relative to what?
Relative to what?

Connection speed is relative to speeds that are not too slow to watch videos. Adjustment is relative to places where humans have been able to test the velocity of light. Relative to "them" is relative to the places where humans have been able to test. The need to make many many different types of adjustments, both in a positive and negative way accounting for velocities toward and away from us, is also relative to the places where humans have been able to test.

[nopeda]

DieChecker, on 16 October 2012 - 12:52 AM, said:

There is no adjustment.
If there was an adjustment, there would be no Red-Shift/Blue-Shift. Since we (everyone everywhere) do see the red-shift/blue-shift then there can not be any adjustment, and the only answer is that the velocity of the emitter only affects the energy level (wavelength) of the emitted light. c is a constant (in near vacuum).

There would be no need for an adjustment if there were no red or blue shift because then there would be no combined velocity. Instead there IS the combined velocities of 186K... +/- the velocities of emitters relative to observers. That combination is what causes the frequency shift and imo also a velocity shift, but the velocity is later adjusted by something so that all incoming light arrives in the areas where humans have been able to detect at one velocity relative to the area. Even if that area is the entire galaxy the adjustment must be made. My guess is that light moves much faster outside of adjustment areas, which would account for how it can not only appear to slow down in order to arrive at c, but how it can also appear to speed up in order to arrive at c. Too bad you can't even appreciate the situation, much less how what I described could account for it.

[synchronomy]

nopeda, on 16 October 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

There would be no need for an adjustment if there were no red or blue shift because then there would be no combined velocity. Instead there IS the combined velocities of 186K... +/- the velocities of emitters relative to observers. That combination is what causes the frequency shift and imo also a velocity shift, but the velocity is later adjusted by something so that all incoming light arrives in the areas where humans have been able to detect at one velocity relative to the area. Even if that area is the entire galaxy the adjustment must be made. My guess is that light moves much faster outside of adjustment areas, which would account for how it can not only appear to slow down in order to arrive at c, but how it can also appear to speed up in order to arrive at c. Too bad you can't even appreciate the situation, much less how what I described could account for it.

Clearly, you didn't read post #1764.

[nopeda]

synchronomy, on 16 October 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

time and space are not absolute.  Think of them both as being elastic and they "slosh" back and forth between each other.
We think of empty space as being just that, empty.  If, indeed, it were empty, then the idea of having 2 points separated by a certain distance would be impossible.  If space were "empty", then 2 points in space, by definition would occupy the same location.  In order for them to have separation, something must be between them which is space.  Space is like a fabric or matrix.  It can bend, twist, and stretch.
. . .
if we measure the speed of light from any star or galaxy no matter how far away it is or how fast it is travelling either towards us or away from us, the light is travelling about 671,000,000 miles per hour.  The only thing that ever changes is it's frequency never the velocity.

I don't believe in either time or space as physical things. I don't believe there is any fabric of space, and certainly don't believe there can't be distance between objects which contains nothing. There is endless nothing, which is in some places occupied by matter. We can say that the nothing only does and only can end when it is replaced by something.

Since light is emitted toward us by objects that have velocities relative to us, both the 186K... from which the light leaves the emitter PLUS OR MINUS the velocity of the emitter relative to us also have to be accounted for. Red and blue shifting let us know that the combined velocities DO have an influence on the light relative to us. Apparently the velocity of the light is adjusted but the frequency is not. That happens when it passes through glass as well. What adjusts it is what's in question. Since I don't believe time exists in a physical way I don't believe time could make the adjustment. Even if I did believe in it I would still be aware that it could NOT make the same adjustment for every situation which is what would seem most likely IF it did exist and have influence, but instead it would have to make a different adjustment for each emitter relative to its velocity relative to us.

[nopeda]

synchronomy, on 16 October 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

Clearly, you didn't read post #1764.

Disagreeing with it doesn't mean I didn't read it. Quite the contrary, in fact.

[synchronomy]

nopeda, on 16 October 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

I don't believe in either time or space as physical things. I don't believe there is any fabric of space, and certainly don't believe there can't be distance between objects which contains nothing. There is endless nothing, which is in some places occupied by matter. We can say that the nothing only does and only can end when it is replaced by something.

Since light is emitted toward us by objects that have velocities relative to us, both the 186K... from which the light leaves the emitter PLUS OR MINUS the velocity of the emitter relative to us also have to be accounted for. Red and blue shifting let us know that the combined velocities DO have an influence on the light relative to us. Apparently the velocity of the light is adjusted but the frequency is not. That happens when it passes through glass as well. What adjusts it is what's in question. Since I don't believe time exists in a physical way I don't believe time could make the adjustment. Even if I did believe in it I would still be aware that it could NOT make the same adjustment for every situation which is what would seem most likely IF it did exist and have influence, but instead it would have to make a different adjustment for each emitter relative to its velocity relative to us.

I posted an excellent video link, which you can't watch.
I took the time to explain it to you, and you don't "believe" it.
You seem to have developed your own theory on the relativistic nature of time and space, which contradicts current widely accepted theories of physics and cosmology.
It would be of great benefit to you to go and learn about this prior to engaging in a debate.

Edited by synchronomy, 16 October 2012 - 06:39 PM.