20 replies to this topic

[moundbuilder]

After 13 years of fieldwork, most of the mound and earthwork sites that have been "address restricted" are now made available for the public to explore. The key to preservation is to lift this veil of secrecy that has been imposed.  It is also of importance to know the basics of the religion in which these works were constructed. A religion that was dedicated to the un father and the Moon or Earth Mother, and the balance of these powers that were displayed at the earthwork sites. The great thing about these sites is that they are free to visit and explore, except for Fort Ancient.Many of these sites have been photographed for the first time

Edited by moundbuilder, 08 March 2012 - 12:34 PM.

[Taun]

I like that these sites are being opened to the public (so long as serious archeological work is not impaired), but I don't particularly buy into the web-sites point of view about them (giants, etc)...

We have an ancient site here in Oklahoma, The Spiro Mounds which - while not as impressive as some of those in the Ohio river territories - is still an intresting place to visit...

[Harte]

Quote

Why does the Ohio Historical Society Hide Mound and Earthworks Sites ?

I would think the answer to this question would be painfully obvious.

And it's not because "they" don't want us to know our "true" history.

It's because "they" don't want us to steal the artifacts.

Harte

[moundbuilder]

Taun, on 08 March 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

I like that these sites are being opened to the public (so long as serious archeological work is not impaired), but I don't particularly buy into the web-sites point of view about them (giants, etc)...

We have an ancient site here in Oklahoma, The Spiro Mounds which - while not as impressive as some of those in the Ohio river territories - is still an intresting place to visit...

The sites are being opened to the public by me. The Ohio Historical Society still has them as  "address restricted"  I put the directions to the sites in my Travel Guide." Keep in mind about archaeological work in that after 100 years of excavating mounds archaeologist don't know who the mound builders were, where they came from, nor where they went. Burial mounds and earthworks are little more that a venue to receive grants.

[moundbuilder]

Harte, on 08 March 2012 - 03:55 PM, said:

I would think the answer to this question would be painfully obvious.

And it's not because "they" don't want us to know our "true" history.

It's because "they" don't want us to steal the artifacts.

Harte

Harte, there is overwhelming evidence that the mound builders whom the archaeologist call Hopewell were a confederation of Sioux, Iroquois and Cherokee Indians. All of these tribes have a history of burying their dead in mounds.  Tribal legends of the Sioux state that at one time they lived in the Ohio Valley.  This is not supported by archaeologist because of the Native American Graves Protection Act that states archaeologists can not dig in to any burials of "known" tribes.

[FurthurBB]

Harte, on 08 March 2012 - 03:55 PM, said:

I would think the answer to this question would be painfully obvious.

And it's not because "they" don't want us to know our "true" history.

It's because "they" don't want us to steal the artifacts.

Harte

Aww, Harte what fun is that?  This kind of thinking is not going to get us an ancient aliens episode on these mounds.

[The_Spartan]

moundbuilder, on 08 March 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

Harte, there is overwhelming evidence that the mound builders whom the archaeologist call Hopewell were a confederation of Sioux, Iroquois and Cherokee Indians. All of these tribes have a history of burying their dead in mounds.  Tribal legends of the Sioux state that at one time they lived in the Ohio Valley.  This is not supported by archaeologist because of the Native American Graves Protection Act that states archaeologists can not dig in to any burials of "known" tribes.

and where does the fallen angels/nephelim come into the picture when the mound builders were a confederation of Sioux, Iroquois and Cherokee Indians????

[Taun]

The_Spartan, on 08 March 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

and where does the fallen angels/nephelim come into the picture when the mound builders were a confederation of Sioux, Iroquois and Cherokee Indians????

Probably a hold over from the days when many people thought the 'Native American' tribes were too primitive to have done anything more complicated than early stone age technology, without outside help...

Everything found that was more advanced than what was thought they could make, was explained away as some lost (almost always white) colony or civilization... Today they say 'aliens'...

[moundbuilder]

The_Spartan, on 08 March 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

and where does the fallen angels/nephelim come into the picture when the mound builders were a confederation of Sioux, Iroquois and Cherokee Indians????

The Sioux, Cherokee and Iroquois were the Hopewell who had their origins with the Maritime Archaic of the Boreal Forest Zone, and were also very tall. Who we know as the Adena were actually the Beaker People who had constructed Stonehenge. The Beaker People had their origins in the Levant and the accounted giants in the Bible known as the Amorites. Eventually the Adena would be absorbed by the Hopewell who adopted many of their earthwork types. What both of these peoples had in common was that they were the last of the Cro Magnon, who were noted for the large size, and bigger brains. We are the product of de-evolutuon.

[daavin]

I tend to disagree with you on de-evolution IMO it could be simply that a smaller human needed less food etc. To function.  Of course watching the oscars does give a big boost to the de-evolving theory.

[Harte]

moundbuilder, on 08 March 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

The Sioux, Cherokee and Iroquois were the Hopewell who had their origins with the Maritime Archaic of the Boreal Forest Zone, and were also very tall. Who we know as the Adena were actually the Beaker People who had constructed Stonehenge. The Beaker People had their origins in the Levant and the accounted giants in the Bible known as the Amorites. Eventually the Adena would be absorbed by the Hopewell who adopted many of their earthwork types.

Well, then, they must have been "absorbed" literally, as in sponge-like, since they left no trace of European DNA or mtDna in their "absorbers."

moundbuilder, on 08 March 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

What both of these peoples had in common was that they were the last of the Cro Magnon, who were noted for the large size, and bigger brains. We are the product of de-evolutuon.

Given that the people we call "Cro Magnon" were Homo Sapiens, it appears that we haven't seen "the last" of them yet.

Otherwise, I'm an alien.

Harte

[moundbuilder]

Harte, on 09 March 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

Well, then, they must have been "absorbed" literally, as in sponge-like, since they left no trace of European DNA or mtDna in their "absorbers."


Given that the people we call "Cro Magnon" were Homo Sapiens, it appears that we haven't seen "the last" of them yet.

Otherwise, I'm an alien.
On the contrary, northern tribes of Native American that were in the areas of the Boreal Forest Zone have an genetic marker called Haplo X that is found in Caucasion populations. This genetic marker was picked up between 7-5000 BC about the time the early Sioux, Cherokee and Iroquois were coming to North America via boat to North America.  Linguistic studies shows that these three tribes have a common origin. All of these tribes also share a history that they once lived in the northeast in the area where the Red Paint people were found. Burial mounds in Labrador date as early as 5,500 B.C.- a burial tradition that would continue to the Hopewellian era. Plummets or Charm Stones were found with the Red Paint people in the Northeast, Europe and in the Hopewell mounds in the Ohio Valley, showing they were the same people.

Harte

[Harte]

Harte said:

Well, then, they must have been "absorbed" literally, as in sponge-like, since they left no trace of European DNA or mtDna in their "absorbers."


Given that the people we call "Cro Magnon" were Homo Sapiens, it appears that we haven't seen "the last" of them yet.

Otherwise, I'm an alien.

Moundbuilder said:

On the contrary, northern tribes of Native American that were in the areas of the Boreal Forest Zone have an genetic marker called Haplo X that is found in Caucasion populations. This genetic marker was picked up between 7-5000 BC about the time the early Sioux, Cherokee and Iroquois were coming to North America via boat to North America.

Unfortunately, for your hypothesis, this isn't possible.

If the Sioux, Cherokee, and Iroquios came here from Europe, they would have a great deal more mtDNA X2 in them than they do today.
Secondly, the haplogroup in question has been found in Siberians since the original study of mtDNA shaplogroup X was first done:

Quote

Haplogroup X is an exception to this pattern of limited geographical distribution. It is found, generally at low frequencies, in both West Eurasians (Richards et al. 2000) and some northern groups of Native Americans (Ward et al. 1991; Forster et al. 1996; Scozzari et al. 1997; Brown et al. 1998; Smith et al. 1999; Malhi et al. 2001), but, intriguingly, it is absent in modern north Siberian and East Asian populations (Brown et al. 1998; Starikovskaya et al. 1998; Schurr et al. 1999), which are genetically and geographically closest to those of Native Americans. Among Siberians, haplogroup X mtDNAs have only been detected in some Altaian populations of southwestern Siberia (Derenko et al. 2001).

Moundbuilder said:

Linguistic studies shows that these three tribes have a common origin. All of these tribes also share a history that they once lived in the northeast in the area where the Red Paint people were found. Burial mounds in Labrador date as early as 5,500 B.C.- a burial tradition that would continue to the Hopewellian era. Plummets or Charm Stones were found with the Red Paint people in the Northeast, Europe and in the Hopewell mounds in the Ohio Valley, showing they were the same people.

The presence of the same haplogroup in Altaian Siberians, obviously, does not mean that some of the X haplogroup in America didn't come from Europe.

On the other hand, mutation rates of mtDNA are well known and strongly established. Science has absolutely established that the mtDNA in question arrived in America at least ten thousand years before Stonehenge was even built, long before the Beaker Culture even existed.

Harte

[Oniomancer]

Quote

On the contrary, northern tribes of Native American that were in the areas of the Boreal Forest Zone have an genetic marker called Haplo X that is found in Caucasion populations. This genetic marker was picked up between 7-5000 BC about the time the early Sioux, Cherokee and Iroquois were coming to North America via boat to North America. Linguistic studies shows that these three tribes have a common origin. All of these tribes also share a history that they once lived in the northeast in the area where the Red Paint people were found. Burial mounds in Labrador date as early as 5,500 B.C.- a burial tradition that would continue to the Hopewellian era. Plummets or Charm Stones were found with the Red Paint people in the Northeast, Europe and in the Hopewell mounds in the Ohio Valley, showing they were the same people.

Plummets are found from one end of the continent to the other, not just just in the northeast. Large numbers of them are found in California and variants as far south as Texas and Florida. I was doing a search on plummets a while back for my own interest and I don't recall running across anything like them from Europe. Even if there is, there's certainly nothing to suggest they were anything more than a common solution to a common need. You might as well say all groups that used spears or axes were the same people.

Hopewell sites are found as far north as western New York but other sites beyond that are not artifactually consistent with the Hopewell culture beyond the occasional trade item.

[moundbuilder]

Oniomancer, on 09 March 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

Plummets are found from one end of the continent to the other, not just just in the northeast. Large numbers of them are found in California and variants as far south as Texas and Florida. I was doing a search on plummets a while back for my own interest and I don't recall running across anything like them from Europe. Even if there is, there's certainly nothing to suggest they were anything more than a common solution to a common need. You might as well say all groups that used spears or axes were the same people.

Hopewell sites are found as far north as western New York but other sites beyond that are not artifactually consistent with the Hopewell culture beyond the occasional trade item.

Not everything is on the net. They have something called books, Check them out.  Its called research.