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Rabbi's Weiss view of Zoinism


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#31    Br Cornelius

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:41 AM

View Postand then, on 18 April 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

What an odd thing to say.  But I note that you do not speak to the substance, just redirect.
The substance is that a people who have had their lives stolen by an occupier should not be expected to be happy about the presence of their oppressor and should not be expected to be gushing in their praise for an occupier who daily kills their citizens.

To answer my point about the relative death toll on both sides Palestinians:Israelies 5:1 since 1987. This only accounts for the direct deaths, and leaves out the indirect deaths caused by the embargo on importation of essential medical and other supplies.

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Edited by Br Cornelius, 18 April 2013 - 08:48 AM.

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#32    and then

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:46 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 18 April 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

The substance is that a people who have had their lives stolen by an occupier should not be expected to be happy about the presence of their oppressor.

Br Cornelius
I assume you mean that it is acceptable for the Palestinians to teach their children to hate and want to destroy Jews by dehumanizing them - the descendants of apes and swine?

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#33    Br Cornelius

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 09:39 AM

View Postand then, on 18 April 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

I assume you mean that it is acceptable for the Palestinians to teach their children to hate and want to destroy Jews by dehumanizing them - the descendants of apes and swine?
I am simply pointing out that its hardly surprising. I would also like to point out that the Zionists are guilty of much the same demonizing of the Palestinians.

There is overt racism on both sides of the wall.

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#34    and then

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 11:45 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 18 April 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

I am simply pointing out that its hardly surprising. I would also like to point out that the Zionists are guilty of much the same demonizing of the Palestinians.

There is overt racism on both sides of the wall.

Br Cornelius
I rarely provide documentation here because I mostly just state my opinions.  So I rarely ASK for documentation as a nod to fairness.  But if you don't mind, I sincerely would like to see any examples you might have of systematic Jewish indoctrination of their children on the order of what happens in Palestine.  There is a media watchdog called Palestinian Media Watch (I think that is the title) which regularly displays examples of the rhetoric I am speaking of.  My point here is that if peace is the object and the Palestinians really want to pursue it then teaching their kindergartners to think of Jews as sub human isn't a good start.  The Israelis want ALL the land.  The Palestinians want ALL the land.  The difference is that the Israelis are willing to give up on some of it to have peace.  The Palestinians are led by persons whose very existence depends on continued warfare and struggle.  If Abbas or Haniyeh were to shake hands with Netanyahu and conclude a deal where Jerusalem were "shared" and limited or no, right of return was the price for most - or even all - of the West Bank, they would be slaughtered within weeks or months.  Sadat and Rabin would tell you about the extremists if they could.  I'm amazed that Hussein of Jordan has survived.

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#35    Br Cornelius

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 12:11 PM

View Postand then, on 18 April 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

I rarely provide documentation here because I mostly just state my opinions.  So I rarely ASK for documentation as a nod to fairness.  But if you don't mind, I sincerely would like to see any examples you might have of systematic Jewish indoctrination of their children on the order of what happens in Palestine.  There is a media watchdog called Palestinian Media Watch (I think that is the title) which regularly displays examples of the rhetoric I am speaking of.  My point here is that if peace is the object and the Palestinians really want to pursue it then teaching their kindergartners to think of Jews as sub human isn't a good start.  The Israelis want ALL the land.  The Palestinians want ALL the land.  The difference is that the Israelis are willing to give up on some of it to have peace.  The Palestinians are led by persons whose very existence depends on continued warfare and struggle.  If Abbas or Haniyeh were to shake hands with Netanyahu and conclude a deal where Jerusalem were "shared" and limited or no, right of return was the price for most - or even all - of the West Bank, they would be slaughtered within weeks or months.  Sadat and Rabin would tell you about the extremists if they could.  I'm amazed that Hussein of Jordan has survived.
I could point you to any number of sites where Zionist political leaders have openly expressed racist viewpoints about the Palestinians, but I doubt you would accept them.
I have also been to Israel and seen the way that the Israeli police/military treated the Palestinians across Jerusalem. Rascism, hatred and dehumanizing language are used on both sides of the divide - FACT.

I really think you are blind to the reality of what Zionism has set out to achieve and how they view the Arab nations. They have never really been honest in their acceptance of a two state solution and have used land grabs as both a justification for not engaging and a means to achieve their greater objective of achieving a Greater Israel which contains all of the Palestinian lands.

Just as the Palestinians and their neighbours have never accepted the legitamacy of Israel, neither have the Zionists ever really accepted the legitimacy of their alloted UN boundaries and they have done everything in their power over the last 60years to extend beyond them.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 18 April 2013 - 12:11 PM.

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#36    SCFan

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 03:59 PM

View Postand then, on 18 April 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:

They don't want a state of Jewish character in their midst because they hate Jews.  They state at every opportunity as loudly as they can and teach their children this.  Do you deny it?

Um, the Palestinians were dispossessed of land, farms, and homes. They are an occupied people for 46 years now. Their lands and freedoms shrink everyday in the occupied territories with Bantustan existances. Gaza lies under siege. The West Bank has literally 100s of checkpoints and roadblocks. They live under Israeli military law. The settlers are setting up outposts on their farms. Israel is building whole thriving cities (settlements) on all their hilltops. And Israel has the audacity to build Jew-only roads throughout the occupied Palestinian territories.

The message Israel is putting out is that it is there to stay. ERETZ ISRAHELL!

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#37    and then

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 04:04 PM

View PostB Jenkins, on 18 April 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

Um, the Palestinians were dispossessed of land, farms, and homes. They are an occupied people for 46 years now. Their lands and freedoms shrink everyday in the occupied territories with Bantustan existances. Gaza lies under siege. The West Bank has literally 100s of checkpoints and roadblocks. They live under Israeli military law. The settlers are setting up outposts on their farms. Israel is building whole thriving cities (settlements) on all their hilltops. And Israel has the audacity to build Jew-only roads throughout the occupied Palestinian territories.

The message Israel is putting out is that it is there to stay. ERETZ ISRAHELL!
So you acknowledge it.  That is progress.  BJ the hate will never conquer Israel and Israel will never get away with the injustices they commit.  Making it an obsession in your life is useless.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
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#38    Dark_Grey

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 04:21 PM

The (Zionist) Jews have some very nasty terms for anyone outside of their faith, essentially seeing any non-zionist as little more than an animal. They use this mentality to justify treating others (in the middle-east) very inhumanely.

Admittedly, I am talking out of my a** as I haven't verified these facts yet. I've heard that even in popular media like Seinfield, (which very obviously has Jewish elements,) there are episodes where some very derogatory Jewish terms are used to describe female characters...

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat [the fruit] thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

"The tragedy of humanity is that we have stone age instincts, medieval institutions and god-like powers."


#39    Dark_Grey

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 04:32 PM

View Postand then, on 14 March 2012 - 04:10 AM, said:

{......sigh.......}
I am a proud Christian Zionist.  I believe the Jews have an inherent right to the land the world "gave" them.  What's more I think they are due and will possess much more of the land upon which their rabid neighbors sit.  They will possess it after they win the next war they are forced into.  They are God's chosen and His word will stand where they are concerned.  Those who try to interfere with this will find themselves in direct conflict with God.  Israel possess the land and will never, ever be removed from it again.
Have a fine day Sam...

These are very elitist statements...very "I'm better than you because God said so!"

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat [the fruit] thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

"The tragedy of humanity is that we have stone age instincts, medieval institutions and god-like powers."


#40    Br Cornelius

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 04:44 PM

View PostDark_Grey, on 18 April 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

These are very elitist statements...very "I'm better than you because God said so!"
Talk like that from people like AND THEN is the primary reason why people like AND THEM are hated - and I am not mincing my words here - HATED by the majority of the rest of the world.
Religious elitism of whatever colour is repugnant and vile to anyone with a sane mind.

Br Cornelius

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#41    and then

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 05:01 PM

View PostDark_Grey, on 18 April 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

These are very elitist statements...very "I'm better than you because God said so!"
The "I'm" is rhetorical I hope... I have no where said I personally am better than anyone.  I also do not subscribe to the notion that Jews are in any way superior to other human beings, far from it.  Those who have actually read what I say will understand this.  Those who simply want to bang a drum and hate will do so.  As a rule, I have found that those who hate the "elite" do so because they either are in rebellion against the God of the Bible or simply do not believe in the Creator.  No harm, no foul.  God chose the tribes of Israel, Jacob's descendants, to fulfill a purpose for Him.  They have been fully rebellious for millennia (as have all other humans) and they have been repeatedly punished for their rebellion.  Hardly a pleasant position to be in.  Those who have a problem with the Creator ought best to take that up with Him...I only believe the words He gave.

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“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#42    SCFan

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 05:07 PM

View Postand then, on 18 April 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

The "I'm" is rhetorical I hope... I have no where said I personally am better than anyone.  I also do not subscribe to the notion that Jews are in any way superior to other human beings, far from it.  Those who have actually read what I say will understand this.  Those who simply want to bang a drum and hate will do so.  As a rule, I have found that those who hate the "elite" do so because they either are in rebellion against the God of the Bible or simply do not believe in the Creator.  No harm, no foul.  God chose the tribes of Israel, Jacob's descendants, to fulfill a purpose for Him.  They have been fully rebellious for millennia (as have all other humans) and they have been repeatedly punished for their rebellion.  Hardly a pleasant position to be in.  Those who have a problem with the Creator ought best to take that up with Him...I only believe the words He gave.

And the Jews fulfilled their purpose, but now there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile, every tribe and nation is a welcome member of the "Israel Of God".

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#43    Dark_Grey

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 05:39 PM

View Postand then, on 18 April 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

Those who have actually read what I say will understand this.  

Yeah, pretty sure I did read what you said. I actually went out of my way to track down and quote what you said because of how unbelievable it was.

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat [the fruit] thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

"The tragedy of humanity is that we have stone age instincts, medieval institutions and god-like powers."


#44    WHO U KIDDIN

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 12:51 AM

images.jpg

http://www.nkusa.org/aboutus/

What is "The people of Israel" ?
-The people of Israel have existed for thousands of years.
-It has its own particular, essential, nature.
-The Torah is the source of its essential nature.
-Without Torah and faith there is no people of Israel.
-Whoever denies the Torah and the Faith is no longer part of the people of Israel.
-The purpose of the People of Israel in this world is Divine service.
-Their salvation is occupation in Divine Service
2) What is Zionism ?
-Zionism is a new thing.
-It has only existed for a century.
-Zionism redefines the true essential nature of the people of Israel, and substitutes for it a completely contradictory and opposite character.
- a materialistic worldly nation.
-Their misfortune is lack of what other nations have. i.e. a state and army.
-Their salvation is possession of a state and army etc.
- This is clearly speed out in the circles of Zionist though, and among the leaders of the Zionist state, That through changing the nature and character of the people of Israel and by changing their way of thinking they can set before the People of Israel "their salvation." -- a state and an army.

From: http://www.jewsnotzi...rg/opposed.html

I know this may not sound kosher to the Zionist cheering section but "The people of Israel" are the real Jews as represented by Rabbi Weiss' sect the Neturei Karta. True Torah Jews like Rabbi Weiss believe that Zionism is an abomination to God's Laws. They would probably agree 100% with real Christians by labeling the Zionists as 'the synagogue of Satan' as written in Rev 3:9:

Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

So you see And Then you still may have a chance at salvation!

Edited by WHO U KIDDIN, 19 April 2013 - 12:55 AM.


#45    and then

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 01:42 AM

View PostWHO U KIDDIN, on 19 April 2013 - 12:51 AM, said:

Attachment images.jpg

http://www.nkusa.org/aboutus/

What is "The people of Israel" ?
-The people of Israel have existed for thousands of years.
-It has its own particular, essential, nature.
-The Torah is the source of its essential nature.
-Without Torah and faith there is no people of Israel.
-Whoever denies the Torah and the Faith is no longer part of the people of Israel.
-The purpose of the People of Israel in this world is Divine service.
-Their salvation is occupation in Divine Service
2) What is Zionism ?
-Zionism is a new thing.
-It has only existed for a century.
-Zionism redefines the true essential nature of the people of Israel, and substitutes for it a completely contradictory and opposite character.
- a materialistic worldly nation.
-Their misfortune is lack of what other nations have. i.e. a state and army.
-Their salvation is possession of a state and army etc.
- This is clearly speed out in the circles of Zionist though, and among the leaders of the Zionist state, That through changing the nature and character of the people of Israel and by changing their way of thinking they can set before the People of Israel "their salvation." -- a state and an army.

From: http://www.jewsnotzi...rg/opposed.html

I know this may not sound kosher to the Zionist cheering section but "The people of Israel" are the real Jews as represented by Rabbi Weiss' sect the Neturei Karta. True Torah Jews like Rabbi Weiss believe that Zionism is an abomination to God's Laws. They would probably agree 100% with real Christians by labeling the Zionists as 'the synagogue of Satan' as written in Rev 3:9:

Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

So you see And Then you still may have a chance at salvation!
There is always a chance.... and thanks for the concern ;)

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.




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