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The end of modern medicine as we know it ?


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#1    Still Waters

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:10 PM

www.telegraph.co.uk said:

The world is entering an antibiotic crisis which could make routine operations impossible and a scratched knee potentially fatal, the head of the World Health Organisation has claimed.

Margaret Chan, director general of the WHO, warned that bacteria were starting to become so resistant to common antibiotics that it could bring about “the end of modern medicine as we know it.”

As a result, she claimed, every antibiotic ever developed is at risk of becoming useless, making once-routine operations impossible.

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#2    psychoticmike

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:34 PM

so in other words greed and incompetence caused this. What a surprise. I'm not to worried tho. I'm worried for others but not for myself because a few months ago i had a double ear infection and a cold. i took all my anti biotics and followed the instructions completely. it didn't go away at all. Then i went back and they put me on a different kind of anti biotic and i took all of that to. it didn't work either. The cold went away on its own after some time but my ears were still plugged. they were still plugged for a month after the second anti biotic and then i started trying to cure it with my mind and it went away completely after 3 days of doing that. So i'm not to worried. I believe we can cure anything with our mind and i know for sure we can cure some things. If we believe we CAN get sick, then we can and we will.

What about natural cures? they still work don't they?

Edited by psychoticmike, 16 March 2012 - 10:34 PM.


#3    Bildr

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:49 PM

'old' western medicine seems to be coming back and could only be for the best, in my opinion.

Edited by Bildr, 16 March 2012 - 10:52 PM.

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#4    Simbi Laveau

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 04:17 AM

Margaret Chan is a minion of Satan.Id not believe everything she says .She was the one that forced H1N1 vaccinations in Europe.Tried to do it in the USA,but too many of us fought back.

I'm not saying this isn't a possibility,but is it from it being prescribed to us,or Its in all our beef and dairy products .
I mean dduuuh.
Have toast with butter,and steak and eggs,tea with milk,and some yogurt ,on a weekly basis,and yah,you're saturated,without ever swallowing a pill.

Antibiotics are so over used in cows,they're surprised about this ?
Cows produce milk,which gives us cheese butter yogurt etc etc .
Cows get steroids and antibiotics in ridiculous amounts ,for no good reasons.

Maybe they should demand antibiotics and steroids being forbidden in cow farming.
Hello .....
FRIGGING HYPOCRITES
:angry:

Edited by missymoo999, 17 March 2012 - 04:18 AM.

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#5    Simbi Laveau

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 04:20 AM

View Postpsychoticmike, on 16 March 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

so in other words greed and incompetence caused this. What a surprise. I'm not to worried tho. I'm worried for others but not for myself because a few months ago i had a double ear infection and a cold. i took all my anti biotics and followed the instructions completely. it didn't go away at all. Then i went back and they put me on a different kind of anti biotic and i took all of that to. it didn't work either. The cold went away on its own after some time but my ears were still plugged. they were still plugged for a month after the second anti biotic and then i started trying to cure it with my mind and it went away completely after 3 days of doing that. So i'm not to worried. I believe we can cure anything with our mind and i know for sure we can cure some things. If we believe we CAN get sick, then we can and we will.

What about natural cures? they still work don't they?
Natural cures work,but if you say that,they put you in jail.
Margaret Chan will say they don't work,to boot.
Fail

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#6    Cybele

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:03 AM

Ah, what a surprise, no link to any actual studies, so we have to rely on mainstream media websites which potentially take things out of context and help blow them out of proportion. I'd reserve judgment on this till I've seen more information.

Yes, bacteria, being living organisms, evolve to resist our treatments. Does this make the problem the fault of the WHO or "greed" and "incompetence"? No, not really. If you want to blame anything blame natural selection.

Edited by Cybele, 17 March 2012 - 08:04 AM.

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#7    Cybele

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:11 AM

View Postmissymoo999, on 17 March 2012 - 04:17 AM, said:

Antibiotics are so over used in cows,they're surprised about this ?
Cows produce milk,which gives us cheese butter yogurt etc etc .
Cows get steroids and antibiotics in ridiculous amounts ,for no good reasons.

Maybe they should demand antibiotics and steroids being forbidden in cow farming.
Hello .....
FRIGGING HYPOCRITES
:angry:

Maybe you should do some research first before you label a person or organization hypocritical.

http://www.who.int/d...4/en/index.html

Antimicrobial resistance in the European Union and the world

Dr Margaret Chan

The EU’s progress is also reflected in success stories in individual countries. Worldwide, the fact that greater quantities of antibiotics are used in healthy animals than in unhealthy humans is a cause for great concern.

This makes it all the more an honour to speak to you in Denmark. Like several other EU nations, Denmark has achieved low domestic antibiotic consumption through multisectoral collaboration and a range of targeted measures.

In particular, Denmark has tackled the problem of antibiotic use in food-producing animals in a pioneering way. Recognizing the potential for a health crisis, this country progressively ended the administration of antibiotics as growth-promoters in the late 1990s, well before the EU-wide ban.

An international review panel, set up by WHO at the request of the Danish government, concluded that the ban reduced human health risks without significantly harming animal health or farmers’ incomes....

The termination of the use of antibiotics as growth promoters had a voluntary component on the part of industry, strongly motivated by consumer concerns. I congratulate industry for its responsible actions.


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#8    bouncer

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:03 PM

View Postmissymoo999, on 17 March 2012 - 04:20 AM, said:

Natural cures work,but if you say that,they put you in jail.


In OZ there's been issues about homeopathy

http://www.news.com....r-1226299003194


#9    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:32 PM

View Postpsychoticmike, on 16 March 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

so in other words greed and incompetence caused this. What a surprise. I'm not to worried tho. I'm worried for others but not for myself because a few months ago i had a double ear infection and a cold. i took all my anti biotics and followed the instructions completely. it didn't go away at all. Then i went back and they put me on a different kind of anti biotic and i took all of that to. it didn't work either. The cold went away on its own after some time but my ears were still plugged. they were still plugged for a month after the second anti biotic and then i started trying to cure it with my mind and it went away completely after 3 days of doing that. So i'm not to worried. I believe we can cure anything with our mind and i know for sure we can cure some things. If we believe we CAN get sick, then we can and we will.

What about natural cures? they still work don't they?

I have argued in the past that vaccinations and antibiotics shouldnt be given to people.

If a person gets Measles (as an example) and cant fight it off they should be allowed to die because -
1. They will pass on their genes to the next generation spreading immunity problems further.
2. Vaccinations expose humans to animal viruses allowing them to mutate and cross into our species.
3. Antibiotics and vaccinations force germs to evolve faster than our own immune systems are evolving.

Keeping one person alive is evil when it will result in millions (perhaps billions) dying further on.


#10    Cybele

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 01:11 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 17 March 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

I have argued in the past that vaccinations and antibiotics shouldnt be given to people.

If a person gets Measles (as an example) and cant fight it off they should be allowed to die because -
1. They will pass on their genes to the next generation spreading immunity problems further.
2. Vaccinations expose humans to animal viruses allowing them to mutate and cross into our species.
3. Antibiotics and vaccinations force germs to evolve faster than our own immune systems are evolving.

Keeping one person alive is evil when it will result in millions (perhaps billions) dying further on.


There are so many things wrong with what you've said.

Vaccines and antibiotics save many lives on a yearly basis, probably most of these lives saved are young children. No one should have to point this out, but populations that have high infant mortality rates generally don't advance very far technologically, culturally, etc. HIV, malaria, and other diseases are significant impediments to the wellbeing and advancement of third world nations.

Measles, your example, is both highly contagious and kills mostly children. Refusing to vaccinate a person against a highly contagious disease is unethical because, among other things, it endangers the lives of many others. You make it sound like "one" person would die or be negatively impacted if such a rule were enforced but this is clearly not the case, even for your example. Endangering people in the present time is no way to protect people in the future.

Edited by Cybele, 17 March 2012 - 01:27 PM.

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#11    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 05:47 PM

View PostCybele, on 17 March 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

There are so many things wrong with what you've said.

Vaccines and antibiotics save many lives on a yearly basis, probably most of these lives saved are young children. No one should have to point this out, but populations that have high infant mortality rates generally don't advance very far technologically, culturally, etc. HIV, malaria, and other diseases are significant impediments to the wellbeing and advancement of third world nations.

Measles, your example, is both highly contagious and kills mostly children. Refusing to vaccinate a person against a highly contagious disease is unethical because, among other things, it endangers the lives of many others. You make it sound like "one" person would die or be negatively impacted if such a rule were enforced but this is clearly not the case, even for your example. Endangering people in the present time is no way to protect people in the future.

If we limit ourselves to the short term implications of antibiotics and vaccinations then yes they are a good thing.

But where do the long term implications fit into your reasoning?


#12    Rlyeh

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 07:30 PM

View Postbouncer, on 17 March 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

In OZ there's been issues about homeopathy

http://www.news.com....r-1226299003194
Homeopathy is selling water as a cure.


#13    Rlyeh

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 07:35 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 17 March 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

I have argued in the past that vaccinations and antibiotics shouldnt be given to people.

If a person gets Measles (as an example) and cant fight it off they should be allowed to die because -
1. They will pass on their genes to the next generation spreading immunity problems further.
2. Vaccinations expose humans to animal viruses allowing them to mutate and cross into our species.
3. Antibiotics and vaccinations force germs to evolve faster than our own immune systems are evolving.

Keeping one person alive is evil when it will result in millions (perhaps billions) dying further on.
Have you considered removing your genes from the gene pool?


#14    psychoticmike

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 07:59 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 17 March 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

I have argued in the past that vaccinations and antibiotics shouldnt be given to people.

If a person gets Measles (as an example) and cant fight it off they should be allowed to die because -
1. They will pass on their genes to the next generation spreading immunity problems further.
2. Vaccinations expose humans to animal viruses allowing them to mutate and cross into our species.
3. Antibiotics and vaccinations force germs to evolve faster than our own immune systems are evolving.

Keeping one person alive is evil when it will result in millions (perhaps billions) dying further on.

At this point i would disagree, but i have to admit, i don't know much about vaccinations or antibiotics.
Maybe i lack a proper understanding of the subject but how i see it, if someone dies because of one of those things, it does not mean they are weak or their genetics are inherently flawed. You have to take into account all the environmental factors that lower someones immunity and reduce the function of the immune system as a whole. If someone has a bad diet and eats food that suppresses their immune system, should their genetics not be passed on? What if someone lives in a stressful environment or thinks to many negative thoughts? (both of which lower immunity)and aren't we already exposed to animal viruses by eating them? or does that have no effect? Bruce lipton believes that our gene expression is in part determined by our beliefs and perception and that if we change them we can change our gene expression. I believe thats true based on my experiences and what i have learned.


#15    Cybele

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 10:47 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 17 March 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

If we limit ourselves to the short term implications of antibiotics and vaccinations then yes they are a good thing.

But where do the long term implications fit into your reasoning?

Well, if a disease is contagious, it doesn't come down to just letting one person die. By not treating that person, or by not vaccinating them to prevent the disease in the first place, you are making it more likely that the disease will spread. With cases like the Black Death, which is easily treatable with antibiotics nowadays, this can result in massive blows to population levels. So disease has the potential to devastate entire populations, reducing their numbers, resources, and thus ability to thrive and advance culturally, technologically, and otherwise in the present and potentially for centuries if the death toll is high enough.

For diseases that aren't so contagious, if they are common enough, it's not just a matter of personal morals. Preventable diseases are a huge burden for entire economies because not only do they result in decreased productivity (sick days) for the individual or perhaps for parents staying home to care for sick children, but due to the amount of resources consumed on palliative care or pain killers, if you're not going to give other types of medicine. So not treating or preventing illness which is treatable or preventable can be a burden on an entire society, weakening it as well. Humans don't survive well without mutual cooperation and protection.

View Postpsychoticmike, on 17 March 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

You have to take into account all the environmental factors that lower someones immunity and reduce the function of the immune system as a whole. If someone has a bad diet and eats food that suppresses their immune system, should their genetics not be passed on?

Yes, this is true. Malnutrition lowers resistance to disease, especially in children, who haven't had time to build strong resistance yet and whose bodies and minds are still developing. Like I said, this is a major problem in many areas of third world countries. Lack of adequate and comprehensive health care, among other things, prevents these nations from advancing in many other areas.

Edited by Cybele, 17 March 2012 - 10:52 PM.

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