The end of modern medicine as we know it ?

[Bildr]

sorry unwanted post*

Edited March 18, 2012 by Bildr

[Mr.Delicious]

Why do you assume that mutations would automatically disappear like this? Unfortunately, resistance is often gained through plasmid, in which case they can carry many different resistance genes at the same time and pass the plasmid on to other bacteria.

Because they breed so fast and quickly that their generic structure is in constant flux? Plasmids provide resistance to the current environment bacteria live in, when that environment changes then those previous resistances no longer provide an advantage, thus there is no reason for them to be selectively passed on anymore. Once an antibiotic has been used to much and is no longer effective, it is discontinued. Once it's discontinued, then the plasmid DNA encoding the resistance doesn't give the bacterium it inhabits an advantage over other bacterial colonies, thus it's going to get lost in the millions of recombinations that occur in bacterial reproduction. As long as we develop this "antibiotic rhythm" of going back and forth from the old compounds to the newer compounds then we can avoid widespread resistance.

Plasmids can not encode an infinite number of genes, some have to get replaced by newer genes. As long as older resistance genes get replaced, the compounds that were previously ineffective become effective again.

[FurthurBB]

Because they breed so fast and quickly that their generic structure is in constant flux? Plasmids provide resistance to the current environment bacteria live in, when that environment changes then those previous resistances no longer provide an advantage, thus there is no reason for them to be selectively passed on anymore. Once an antibiotic has been used to much and is no longer effective, it is discontinued. Once it's discontinued, then the plasmid DNA encoding the resistance doesn't give the bacterium it inhabits an advantage over other bacterial colonies, thus it's going to get lost in the millions of recombinations that occur in bacterial reproduction. As long as we develop this "antibiotic rhythm" of going back and forth from the old compounds to the newer compounds then we can avoid widespread resistance.

Plasmids can not encode an infinite number of genes, some have to get replaced by newer genes. As long as older resistance genes get replaced, the compounds that were previously ineffective become effective again.

It is really not that simple. If mutations worked this way all the time then there would never be any variations available for selection. You are thinking of it like it is some intelligent process when it isn't. The genomic mutations arise randomly and if they are beneficial they are selected for. Even in an environment where the mutation is not beneficial and there is no selective pressure the mutation does not always disappear entirely. There have been a lot of experiments looking into HIV resistance to AZT. The most common mutation that makes HIV resistant to AZT is actually the opposite of beneficial, except in the presence of AZT. If you stop exposing the virus to AZT through successive rounds of replication, that mutation still exists and HIV mutates much more rapidly than any bacteria. Also, plasmids are not always kept because they are a benefit. That is quite a bit more complicated too.

[minera]

Margaret Chan is a lying sack of crap.

I know quite a lot about her,and need to do no further research.

You believe everything WHO spoon feeds you ,I think for myself.

http://www.infowars.com/journalist-fired-over-flu-pandemic-lawsuit/

Jane is a friend of mine,and they DESTROYED HER LIFE,for exposing the truth .

It seems the government in the USA is getting ready for such a pandemic. Building holding camps (similar to concentration camps)and storing thousands of coffins that would fit at the most four people. It was on television and just lately on a show by former govenor Ventura. Something is up and in the works cooking in a cauldron that we as citizens are kept in the dark about. If anyone is close to the truth either their careers are destroy or they are permanently shut up. Wake up people.

[FurthurBB]

It seems the government in the USA is getting ready for such a pandemic. Building holding camps (similar to concentration camps)and storing thousands of coffins that would fit at the most four people. It was on television and just lately on a show by former govenor Ventura. Something is up and in the works cooking in a cauldron that we as citizens are kept in the dark about. If anyone is close to the truth either their careers are destroy or they are permanently shut up. Wake up people.

It is possible that there is something going on that they are not telling the general population that has to do with a pandemic, but do not put any stock into the article that was linked. No international syndicate smart enough to do the things that article is accusing them of would use a flu virus for a pandemic. Influenza is too unpredictable, mutates too rapidly, and vaccines are too limited in their efficiency. There is too great of a risk that it would come back to "them" too quickly for any benefit to be gained.

[Simbi Laveau]

Water helped your animals? Thats complete bull ****.

The only thing worse than charlatans, are the fools trying to defend their idiocy.

Homeopaths,do not use water as a remedy,whomever is claiming that ,is a blatant liar.

My animals got things like nux vomica,sepia,and arsenica album.

Hey,my cats live to be 24 years old,so I could care less if anyone else disbelieves the validity of any alternative therapy.

I never have to go to the doctor either.

*shrugs*

[Simbi Laveau]

Only rail against science when it's not crucial to your survival, huh?

Are we speaking of science,or the money making thing called the western medical system ?

As the two have nothing to do with one another.

Lolz.

I dont care what any of you think...say im nuts,say im uninformed .it means nothing to me,at all.

Don't care..

You are sheeple to me.

Really ,I have seen both sides of this coin ,up close.

A true system would be merging the two properly,in the best interests of each individual patients needs,which alternative medicine already does.

Western medicine is a money maker,with patients lives as the fall out.They lie,they manipulate data,and they try ever so hard to discredit every alternative therapy there is,so we dont prove to the public how badly they've been snow jobbed.

I dont bother with medical insurance,and I dont go to the doctor.

The last time I had to go,was because a cat bit me,and I needed IV antibiotics.

They mismanaged me,they didn't do the proper xrays,the attending physician didn't eyeball me once during my entire stay,which is illegal.

He just let residents check me out.They had the patient advocate lie to my face,and they ignored the fact I had a serious reaction to a med I'd never had before.

Its a good thing I knew what to do .....

My 13,000$ bill,magically went away,when I mentioned reporting the hospital,for the MD never once eyeballing me,and the fact I could have had osteomyelitis,and they didn't do the proper tests.

They mismanaged and killed my mom,by missing the air on her xray,and giving her a med that put her into septic shock.

the only reason my mom was in the hospital in the first place,was because her cardiologist insisted she be on a drug that shouldn't even be on the market anymore.

I fought 2 years to keep her off the drug,but in the end,I was told it had to be done.

What do I know...well I know it causes blindness and lung fibrosis.

20 other meds do the same exact thing.why this meds.well im sure the pharm rep asks the doctor to push it on elderly patients,so it's still lucrative,despite its poison.

My mother was dead within 6 months of going on this med,and her death certificate says,cause of death : this drugs toxicity.

It causes lung damage that was probably irreversible,but the steroids they gave her for that,caused a diverticulum to burst,and the fools missed the air on her xray,and assumed she was constitpated.

The stool softner they gave her,pushed all the stool into her abdomen,and she went septic,and didn't survive the surgery.

All because some MD,who didn't even have the guts to say to me,im sorry for your loss,put her on amiodarone,instead of toprol.

My mom smoked for 50 years.What kind of MORON,puts an elderly woman with a degree of copd,on a med that causes lung fibrosis?

A CLASS A MORON,WITH AN AGENDA.

That's what kind .

They're a money making machine,and a joke .

Go give them your money and your lives to them,i could care less.

I know better.

Edited March 18, 2012 by missymoo999

[Cybele]

Margaret Chan is a lying sack of crap.

I know quite a lot about her,and need to do no further research.

You believe everything WHO spoon feeds you ,I think for myself.

http://www.infowars.com/journalist-fired-over-flu-pandemic-lawsuit/

Jane is a friend of mine,and they DESTROYED HER LIFE,for exposing the truth .

I can think for myself too, thank you. That doesn't mean I believe everything the WHO feeds me, much less what every random, angry weirdo on the internet tells me.

Everyone's out to get you, and those who disagree with you are ignorant sheeple. That's very reasonable. Fortunately there aren't enough people who think like you out there to drag the rest of modern society down with them. Terrible personal experiences with bad doctors don't mean the whole system's corrupt.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Cybele

[Cybele]

The link you posted directs me to a website run by a conspiracy theorist who accused the U.S. government of being responsible for 9/11 and the Oklahoma City Bombings. Its motto is "because there is a war on for your mind". This is not a news site, it is a conspiracy theory website.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones_%28radio_host%29

Interestingly, the "Project Camelot" which interviewed this journalist you mentioned is of the sort that also interviewed David Icke, a man who believes that all political leaders and members of royal families around the world are actually shape-shifting reptilian aliens. Any mention of this woman is to be found on nothing but conspiracy theory sites.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Cybele

[ohio state buckeyes]

I have argued in the past that vaccinations and antibiotics shouldnt be given to people.

If a person gets Measles (as an example) and cant fight it off they should be allowed to die because -

1. They will pass on their genes to the next generation spreading immunity problems further.

2. Vaccinations expose humans to animal viruses allowing them to mutate and cross into our species.

3. Antibiotics and vaccinations force germs to evolve faster than our own immune systems are evolving.

Keeping one person alive is evil when it will result in millions (perhaps billions) dying further on.

You can let your family die of the Measles mine is not going to

[Simbi Laveau]

The link you posted directs me to a website run by a conspiracy theorist who accused the U.S. government of being responsible for 9/11 and the Oklahoma City Bombings. Its motto is "because there is a war on for your mind". This is not a news site, it is a conspiracy theory website.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones_%28radio_host%29

Interestingly, the "Project Camelot" which interviewed this journalist you mentioned is of the sort that also interviewed David Icke, a man who believes that all political leaders and members of royal families around the world are actually shape-shifting reptilian aliens. Any mention of this woman is to be found on nothing but conspiracy theory sites.

I just took the first one that came up in the search...

My mistake ,even though he posts a lot of facts on his shows.

My point was,Margaret Chan is a liar with an agenda.

http://www.ktradionetwork.com/tag/margaret-chan/

http://ebookcashstreams.com/HotNewsBlog/tag/margaret-chan/

http://real-agenda.com/2010/06/07/a-pandemic-of-corruption-not-h1n1/

I won't ever believe anything she says,as she has people she answers to,and we are all expendable.

They have to make Jane look like the bad guy.They crucified her for exercising her right to not be vaccinated,and exposing the truth about it,and other things.

They stripped her of her civil rights,and made her a ward of the court.

Margaret Chan is no one to look to for medical advice.

Nothing about that ,will change for me .

[Simbi Laveau]

Jane posts verifiable issues,to warn the public.

She had documentation of dozens of women all having miscarriages after the H1N1 vaccination,amongst other things.

They had to shut her up.

Shes finally gotten some of her life back,but confronting WHO ,with her findings,is why it happened.

I learned long ago,go with what works,not what they tell you what you need,as they get paid if you do that ,but not if you think for yourself.

http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/

[Rlyeh]

Homeopaths,do not use water as a remedy,whomever is claiming that ,is a blatant liar.

My animals got things like nux vomica,sepia,and arsenica album.

Hey,my cats live to be 24 years old,so I could care less if anyone else disbelieves the validity of any alternative therapy.

I never have to go to the doctor either.

*shrugs*

And I thought you knew a bit about homeopathy?

Homeopathy uses extremely dilute substances, in many cases so dilute it's only water (or sugar for pills)

http://en.wikipedia....athic_dilutions

Homeopathy is nothing more than a placebo, and fails as a real treatement.

http://findarticles....30/ai_18979004/

http://www.acsh.org/...ssue_detail.asp

Edited March 19, 2012 by Rlyeh

[27vet]

I certainly wouldn't trust my health to the WHO. (BTW I haven't touched an antibiotic since around 1995).

[FurthurBB]

Homeopaths,do not use water as a remedy,whomever is claiming that ,is a blatant liar.

My animals got things like nux vomica,sepia,and arsenica album.

Hey,my cats live to be 24 years old,so I could care less if anyone else disbelieves the validity of any alternative therapy.

I never have to go to the doctor either.

*shrugs*

My mom had three cats live past 25 and they had all their vaccines and went to the vet. Also, all three of my children never had an ear infection and my son has never had the flu or a flu shot. I never get sick and have better cholesterol than most 20-year-olds. I am actually heavily vaccinated because I work with infectious diseases.

[FurthurBB]

Are we speaking of science,or the money making thing called the western medical system ?

As the two have nothing to do with one another.

Lolz.

I dont care what any of you think...say im nuts,say im uninformed .it means nothing to me,at all.

Don't care..

You are sheeple to me.

Really ,I have seen both sides of this coin ,up close.

A true system would be merging the two properly,in the best interests of each individual patients needs,which alternative medicine already does.

Western medicine is a money maker,with patients lives as the fall out.They lie,they manipulate data,and they try ever so hard to discredit every alternative therapy there is,so we dont prove to the public how badly they've been snow jobbed.

I dont bother with medical insurance,and I dont go to the doctor.

The last time I had to go,was because a cat bit me,and I needed IV antibiotics.

They mismanaged me,they didn't do the proper xrays,the attending physician didn't eyeball me once during my entire stay,which is illegal.

He just let residents check me out.They had the patient advocate lie to my face,and they ignored the fact I had a serious reaction to a med I'd never had before.

Its a good thing I knew what to do .....

My 13,000$ bill,magically went away,when I mentioned reporting the hospital,for the MD never once eyeballing me,and the fact I could have had osteomyelitis,and they didn't do the proper tests.

They mismanaged and killed my mom,by missing the air on her xray,and giving her a med that put her into septic shock.

the only reason my mom was in the hospital in the first place,was because her cardiologist insisted she be on a drug that shouldn't even be on the market anymore.

I fought 2 years to keep her off the drug,but in the end,I was told it had to be done.

What do I know...well I know it causes blindness and lung fibrosis.

20 other meds do the same exact thing.why this meds.well im sure the pharm rep asks the doctor to push it on elderly patients,so it's still lucrative,despite its poison.

My mother was dead within 6 months of going on this med,and her death certificate says,cause of death : this drugs toxicity.

It causes lung damage that was probably irreversible,but the steroids they gave her for that,caused a diverticulum to burst,and the fools missed the air on her xray,and assumed she was constitpated.

The stool softner they gave her,pushed all the stool into her abdomen,and she went septic,and didn't survive the surgery.

All because some MD,who didn't even have the guts to say to me,im sorry for your loss,put her on amiodarone,instead of toprol.

My mom smoked for 50 years.What kind of MORON,puts an elderly woman with a degree of copd,on a med that causes lung fibrosis?

A CLASS A MORON,WITH AN AGENDA.

That's what kind .

They're a money making machine,and a joke .

Go give them your money and your lives to them,i could care less.

I know better.

I do believe you and from your posts I believe the only sheeple here is you, allowing yourself to be lied to by charlatans.

[FurthurBB]

Jane posts verifiable issues,to warn the public.

She had documentation of dozens of women all having miscarriages after the H1N1 vaccination,amongst other things.

They had to shut her up.

Shes finally gotten some of her life back,but confronting WHO ,with her findings,is why it happened.

I learned long ago,go with what works,not what they tell you what you need,as they get paid if you do that ,but not if you think for yourself.

http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/

Sorry, this is just not true. Dozens of women miscarry for any number of reasons and when you look into these cases there are only a handful that could possibly have anything to do with the H1N1 vaccine. Not to mention, there is no real difference between the H1N1 vaccine and a regular seasonal flu shot other than the strain and no anecdotal stories of miscarriages with the seasonal flu shot. I think for myself and say anything I want and no one has ever tried to shut me up and I was once in the thick of it. I interned for the CDC when I was in college, I have done a sabbatical for WHO and several for the army and the DOH. Although for the army you do have to sign a nondisclosure agreement.

[WoIverine]

The OP article is plain propaganda. There has been a recent coral extract finding that completely decimates bacteria's antibiotic resistance.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=coral-fights-antibiotic-resistance

Edited March 19, 2012 by Spid3rCyd3

[WoIverine]

Yes, this is true. Malnutrition lowers resistance to disease, especially in children, who haven't had time to build strong resistance yet and whose bodies and minds are still developing. Like I said, this is a major problem in many areas of third world countries. Lack of adequate and comprehensive health care, among other things, prevents these nations from advancing in many other areas.

We should be equally concerned about the garbage Monsanto is pumping into our liquid and solid foods as we are about various types of infection. They're about to release "NeoTame" and they aren't even required to list it on ingredient labels!

Edited March 19, 2012 by Spid3rCyd3

[Bildr]

We should be equally concerned about the garbage Monsanto is pumping into our liquid and solid foods as we are about various types of infection. They're about to release "NeoTame" and they aren't even required to list it on ingredient labels!

Me, as a lot of people, is p***ed about Monsanto. Who ever heard about stevia? It's an extract from a plant of the same name, that have a sugar taste but whitout being any sugar in it. So it'a GREAT alternative to refined sugar and all craps being fed us to ''enhanced the taste''. But no Monsanto Lobby will make hard for people to know about this and still feed us untested synthetic molecular chemical in our bodies.

http://www.greenlivingtips.com/articles/103/1/Stevia---sugar-alternative.html

And i can testify that it isn't harmfull in any way, since my fiancee's dad is diabetic and he's being able to treat it better by swithing a lot of things with refined sugar, by that.

Comment from the link above; ''Comment #12 (Posted by Sheila)

Alright, Michael- this is my last blog for the day. Your site is so laced with sweet articles I cannot help but indulge (pun fully intended).

On sugar, saccharin, and aspartame... it's amazing that we again are looking to ancient ways to solve modern scourge. It's simply a shame that with all of our modern advancements that we really have not become all that much smarter. Sugar cane production and growth have damaged vast areas of wetlands in the name of plantation owners' greed in USA- now we are in the midst of the largest plague of diabetes, obesity and pancreatic cancer to date. Stevia could be used to reverse alot of that damage in our subtropics, and I'm sure that even the sweetest sweettooth out there couldn't dislike its super- sweetness.

The stevia leaf, according to your article, has been used by Guarini Indians for 1500 years and by the Japanese for decades- yet there are companies out there who would propagandize against it and cite mutagenic dangers as the reason for not approving it through the FDA. Why? Again, it comes down to the financial interests of companies vs. the greater good of humanity. Why would one need a study of the stevia leaf if there is perfectly legitimate proof that it does not pose a danger to humans in the Guarini Indians who have taken it for over 1,000 years? If the leaf was harmful, don't you think after 1,500 years they would have figured it out by now? The Japanese have a profoundly lower cancer rate than Americans, and this is even after Nagasaki and Hiroshima, and they use it! Why is it that everything we do seems to have to be approved by the powers that be (A.K.A. "Big Business") when we would be much better off just being allowed to render our own judgement in our own lives? Most of us do not want to harm ourselves or others and do exercise good judgement in avoiding harm, but for some reason it has been deemed necessary that we have a regulatory system out there that allows us only to consume what they deem safe- diabetes/ obesity/ cancer is a huge industry! We wouldn't want to screw up the medical industry with the stevia leaf, would we? ;)Unless, of course, it was GM adapted, that way the medical community can continue to flourish from food- bourne health consequences... and the food businesses can claim ownership on yet another plant that should be a fundamental human right to pursue. It's absurd that such a free country does not realize exactly how controlled we are and how much freedom is given away every day to new laws and new regulatory commissions, right down to the food we eat and the drugs we take. What's even more absurd is the fact that we Americans do it to ourselves. Enjoy your soyburger!''

Edited March 19, 2012 by Bildr

[WoIverine]

Me, as a lot of people, is p***ed about Monsanto. Who ever heard about stevia? It's an extract from a plant of the same name, that have a sugar taste but whitout being any sugar in it. So it'a GREAT alternative to refined sugar and all craps being fed us to ''enhanced the taste''. But no Monsanto Lobby will make hard for people to know about this and still feed us untested synthetic molecular chemical in our bodies.

http://www.greenlivingtips.com/articles/103/1/Stevia---sugar-alternative.html

And i can testify that it isn't harmfull in any way, since my fiancee's dad is diabetic and he's being able to treat it better by swithing a lot of things with refined sugar, by that.

Right On! I have a little box of green stevia packets sitting right here.

Here's to the hope that we see this little sea sponge save some lives from killer strains of bacteria. (If that ever happens)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageliferin

Edited March 19, 2012 by Spid3rCyd3

[FurthurBB]

The OP article is plain propaganda. There has been a recent coral extract finding that completely decimates bacteria's antibiotic resistance.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=coral-fights-antibiotic-resistance

This will be good if they can find a way to make it safe for consumption, especially for dental plaques and cystic fibrosis patients who suffer from P. aeruginosa infections of the lungs. The important thing to remember is that antibiotics are mostly natural substances put off by other bacterium and yeast just like this substance. The key is really to use any antimicrobial agent sparingly so that bacteria do not develop a resistance to it.

[puckmomma]

I understand first hand about MRSA. My mom has a diabetic ulser caused by Veinestasis in her leg and she had a strain of MRSA bacteria only contained to the open wound. We had to wear masks as she was confined to the home. I had to wear masks and gloves whenever I were to change the wound. THe medication only slows down the bacteria to make it non contagious but like athletes food the fungus will always come back even though you use the creme. So MRSA is one of those viruses that can become a super bug really fast.... because it is my understanding that once you get MRSA and treat it the bug can lie dormant untill the conditions are right for it to spread.

[bouncer]

Here we go then!

Big Pharma Creates Resistant “White Plague” Through Mass Drugging

"Thanks to widespread and unnecessary usage of antibiotics throughout the modern world, a heavily drug-resistant form of tuberculosis is now striking fear into the hearts of scientists and doctors alike. Affecting both poor and rich, those affected with the disease are put into quarantine and injected with a large number of super drugs. If the disease were to spread and develop, tuberculosis experts are worried that medical professionals would be helpless to stop it — at least when it comes to more of big pharma’s drugs. Natural solutions do exist, and they don’t involve the very drugs that spawned the ‘white plague’ in the first place.

India is receiving the bulk of the blame for spurring on the drug-resistant killer, as the country is known for its massive overuse of antibiotics. In fact, India has the most cases of multi-drug resistant tuberculosis in the world, with more than 100,000 cases of the disease. While multi-drug resistant tuberculosis is still quite deadly, it is the ‘extensively drug-resistant’ and ’totally drug-resistant’ tuberculosis that worries many health organizations and officials.

Source: http://naturalsociety.com/big-pharma-creates-resistant-white-plague-through-mass-drugging/