1360 replies to this topic

[DieChecker]

I think your going to see a lot of people involved in the trial want a way out. Who's going to want to be in a case that on the surface appears to be a quick dismissal.... that is likely to cause rioting.

As to profiling. I think it is used because it works. Look at who is about to riot over this. If Zimmerman was killed and Martin was on trial, I doubt millions of hispanic whites would be in arms and ready to riot. I don't believe blacks are any more violent or any less intellegent. I just believe they are stuck in a "Stupid" culture.

Anti-profiling is a lot more idiotic then profiling. There is a law here in Beaverton Oregon where they monitor the population percentage of the various ethnic groups, and if they begin exceeding that percentage, say of hispanics, they hand out only warnings. So if you get to the end of the month, "minority" groups can pretty much speed, run lights, and not worry about driving with no insurance, as they are going to get off with a warning. Actually, much of the time, the protected groups can get off with a warning. And since this is often re-published in a PC attempt of prooving that they don't profile, the protected groups know it well.

[DieChecker]

If Trayvon knew he was being followed and then was being chased, why did HE not call 911? Especially if he was the model of the law abiding citizen. Why call his girlfriend who was zero help?

Why didn't he call his Dad and the dad's girlfriend were lived right there?

Why didn't he go back into the house? Why did he not lay low?

[susieice]

DieChecker, on 14 April 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

If Trayvon knew he was being followed and then was being chased, why did HE not call 911? Especially if he was the model of the law abiding citizen. Why call his girlfriend who was zero help?

Why didn't he call his Dad and the dad's girlfriend were lived right there?

Why didn't he go back into the house? Why did he not lay low?

His dad said he was at work at the time this happened. Why he didn't call 911, I don't know. I haven't thought like a teenager in years. It's easy for us older ones to think like that but who knows what he was thinking other than that he said he was scared. He was close to home and may have thought he'd make it only I don't know what Zimmerman would have done if the kid went towards a house. He wasn't coming out of the house, he was coming back from the store. He was 70 feet from home when he was shot. As to all the questions, this is why there needs to be a trial. Only when the witnesses, all of them, testify will we really know what they have to say. We all know what Zimmerman is claiming but will it stand up to the evidence? What was gathered at the crime scene is unknown to us. We know the prosecutor said it was helpful in reaching her decision. A lot is unknown to us and will remain so until it is told in court.

Edited by susieice, 14 April 2012 - 06:03 AM.

[FLOMBIE]

DieChecker, on 14 April 2012 - 05:33 AM, said:

I think your going to see a lot of people involved in the trial want a way out. Who's going to want to be in a case that on the surface appears to be a quick dismissal.... that is likely to cause rioting.

As to profiling. I think it is used because it works. Look at who is about to riot over this. If Zimmerman was killed and Martin was on trial, I doubt millions of hispanic whites would be in arms and ready to riot. I don't believe blacks are any more violent or any less intellegent. I just believe they are stuck in a "Stupid" culture.

Anti-profiling is a lot more idiotic then profiling. There is a law here in Beaverton Oregon where they monitor the population percentage of the various ethnic groups, and if they begin exceeding that percentage, say of hispanics, they hand out only warnings. So if you get to the end of the month, "minority" groups can pretty much speed, run lights, and not worry about driving with no insurance, as they are going to get off with a warning. Actually, much of the time, the protected groups can get off with a warning. And since this is often re-published in a PC attempt of prooving that they don't profile, the protected groups know it well.

I see you guys are talking about racial profiling, and not about profiling in a criminal investigative way.

As for the bolded part, that is simply stupid. I can see no reason why things should be handled like this, especially if i look at it from a judical point of view. People are being jailed for not filling out papers, but get away for putting other people in danger?

[and then]

DieChecker, on 14 April 2012 - 05:33 AM, said:

I think your going to see a lot of people involved in the trial want a way out. Who's going to want to be in a case that on the surface appears to be a quick dismissal.... that is likely to cause rioting.

As to profiling. I think it is used because it works. Look at who is about to riot over this. If Zimmerman was killed and Martin was on trial, I doubt millions of hispanic whites would be in arms and ready to riot. I don't believe blacks are any more violent or any less intellegent. I just believe they are stuck in a "Stupid" culture.

Anti-profiling is a lot more idiotic then profiling. There is a law here in Beaverton Oregon where they monitor the population percentage of the various ethnic groups, and if they begin exceeding that percentage, say of hispanics, they hand out only warnings. So if you get to the end of the month, "minority" groups can pretty much speed, run lights, and not worry about driving with no insurance, as they are going to get off with a warning. Actually, much of the time, the protected groups can get off with a warning. And since this is often re-published in a PC attempt of prooving that they don't profile, the protected groups know it well.

I agree.  And imagine being a juror.  Even if they are sequestered they will know how volatile the case has become.  I think it will take an extraordinary citizen to be willing to acquit if the evidence points that way.  They may fear for their own safety and that of their family.  And unless the evidence is strong for one side or the other a hung jury might be likely.
I will be very interested to see the demographic composition of the jury.  I hope it accurately reflects the town of Sanford and is not stacked in anyway to anyone's advantage.
If this one drags on as long as the Casey Anthony trial did then it will be a very long, hot summer.

[Myles]

susieice, on 14 April 2012 - 05:12 AM, said:

That's right. That's a personal choice. But do you have the right to condemn them for criminal intent when you did not see them do anything wrong? Trayvon was suspended from school for possessing an empty baggy with marijuana residue. His father decided to take him with him for awhile where the kid would be away from those surroundings for awhile. I don't know how long he intended to keep him there, but did he have the right to do that even though the neighbors didn't know his son? Not one has yet complained about anything the kid did that night or any other. Who was Zimmerman to decide the kid didn't belong there? He did. He was with his father. Can you imagine how that man must feel?

You made Georges point.   George seen an unfamiliar  17 year old guy with his face covered walking the street at night in the rain.  He decided to follow him because George is the neighborhood watch captain.  Nothing wrong at this point.

[Socio]

susieice, on 14 April 2012 - 04:23 AM, said:

I agree but one shouldn't judge someone by appearance only.

There is nothing else to go by, so you do not only have to judge someone by their appearance, you must judge them for you and yours own safety.

It is the same reason that if you get on a plane today and if someone looks to be Muslim ALL eyes are on them, it not because everyone else on that plane are racist profilers, it is just the primal law of self preservation kicking in, it is human nature.

Edited by Socio, 14 April 2012 - 11:08 AM.

[conspiracybeliever]

Myles, on 14 April 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

You made Georges point.   George seen an unfamiliar  17 year old guy with his face covered walking the street at night in the rain.  He decided to follow him because George is the neighborhood watch captain.  Nothing wrong at this point.

Stupid saw what he wanted to see. What was actually there was a 17 year old coming home from the store with a package of Skittles with a hood on because it was raining. Stupid should have just admitted he got the stand your ground law confused with the walk everyone elses ground law with a gun law which only applies to cops instead of trying to blame the victim for his stupidity. Stupid needs to be sitting his ass in jail for a good long time to think about what stupid did. And stupid should never be allowed to walk around our streets again with a gun helping him make stupid decisions.

[conspiracybeliever]

Socio, on 14 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

There is nothing else to go by, so you do not only have to judge someone by their appearance, you must judge them for you and yours own safety.

It is the same reason that if you get on a plane today and if someone looks to be Muslim ALL eyes are on them, it not because everyone else on that plane are racist profilers, it is just the primal law of self preservation kicking in, it is human nature.

When there is nothing else to go by it means there is no reason to believe a law has been broken so the thing to do is nothing until there is a reason.

[conspiracybeliever]

DieChecker, on 14 April 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

If Trayvon knew he was being followed and then was being chased, why did HE not call 911? Especially if he was the model of the law abiding citizen. Why call his girlfriend who was zero help?

Why didn't he call his Dad and the dad's girlfriend were lived right there?

Why didn't he go back into the house? Why did he not lay low?

Perhaps the reason Martin didn't call 911 is that people like him have been profiled/targeted by law enforcement for many years and people like him don't trust law enforcement. You wouldn't know that until you've called the cops and been arrested for some **** the courts created.

[lightly]

Myles, on 14 April 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

You made Georges point.   George seen an unfamiliar  17 year old guy with his face covered walking the street at night in the rain.  He decided to follow him because George is the neighborhood watch captain.  Nothing wrong at this point.

There is some question as to whether Mr. Zimmerman is an official member of a Registered Neighborhood Watch .     That question aside...   According to this Government publicaton,  Mr. Zimmerman was not behaving in accordance with established Neighborhood watch policies.
  ...  I feel sorry for everyone involved in this horrible tragedy.

https://www.bja.gov/...a_nw_manual.pdf

Patrol members should be trained by law enforcement. It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles. They should also be cautioned to alert police or deputies when encountering strange activity. Members should never confront suspicious persons who could be armed and dangerous.

[susieice]

Myles, on 14 April 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

You made Georges point.   George seen an unfamiliar  17 year old guy with his face covered walking the street at night in the rain.  He decided to follow him because George is the neighborhood watch captain.  Nothing wrong at this point.

How in the world did I make George's point? George could call the cops if he didn't like the kid, but following and confronting because he was unfamiliar was not an option. Have the neighbors ever complained about the father and the fiancee stealing and fighting? It's not only George's neighborhood to make decisions like that. That decision ended in death. That belongs in court to be decided.

Edited by susieice, 14 April 2012 - 01:38 PM.

[susieice]

Socio, on 14 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

There is nothing else to go by, so you do not only have to judge someone by their appearance, you must judge them for you and yours own safety.

It is the same reason that if you get on a plane today and if someone looks to be Muslim ALL eyes are on them, it not because everyone else on that plane are racist profilers, it is just the primal law of self preservation kicking in, it is human nature.

Yes but you can't jump them. You can't demand the stewardess remove them. The airline can't refuse them tickets. TSA has probably already put them through everything that they can.

[susieice]

lightly, on 14 April 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

There is some question as to whether Mr. Zimmerman is an official member of a Registered Neighborhood Watch .     That question aside...   According to this Government publicaton,  Mr. Zimmerman was not behaving in accordance with established Neighborhood watch policies.
  ...  I feel sorry for everyone involved in this horrible tragedy.

https://www.bja.gov/...a_nw_manual.pdf

Patrol members should be trained by law enforcement. It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles. They should also be cautioned to alert police or deputies when encountering strange activity. Members should never confront suspicious persons who could be armed and dangerous.

This is correct. Zimmerman had no more authority than you or I to take the law into our own hands. He even knew that police were moments away when he did what he did. He left the dispatcher thinking he was going to meet police but police knew where he was from all the 911 calls coming in. When they got there in time that will be measured in seconds, they had a deceased person on their hands.

[Myles]

susieice, on 14 April 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:

This is correct. Zimmerman had no more authority than you or I to take the law into our own hands. He even knew that police were moments away when he did what he did. He left the dispatcher thinking he was going to meet police but police knew where he was from all the 911 calls coming in. When they got there in time that will be measured in seconds, they had a deceased person on their hands.

He didn't take the law into his own hands.  Trayvon started the aggression.