1360 replies to this topic

[Myles]

conspiracybeliever, on 14 April 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

Stupid saw what he wanted to see. What was actually there was a 17 year old coming home from the store with a package of Skittles with a hood on because it was raining. Stupid should have just admitted he got the stand your ground law confused with the walk everyone elses ground law with a gun law which only applies to cops instead of trying to blame the victim for his stupidity. Stupid needs to be sitting his ass in jail for a good long time to think about what stupid did. And stupid should never be allowed to walk around our streets again with a gun helping him make stupid decisions.

Thug got aggressive because he thought George caught him casing a house he intended to rob later.  What actually happened was George was just making sure that Thug got home safely because he knew that the neighborhood has had issues.   Thug ran into a problem when the guy he was trying to kill had a gun to defend himself.  Thug needs to lay 6 feet under so he could never attack another person.


See, I can make up stuff just like you.

[susieice]

Myles, on 14 April 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

He didn't take the law into his own hands.  Trayvon started the aggression.

Go to court and prove it. That's why there's a trial. Answer the questions.

Edited by susieice, 14 April 2012 - 04:48 PM.

[Myles]

susieice, on 14 April 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Go to court and prove it. That's why there's a trial. Answer the questions.

I agree, but a trial doesn't mean George is guilty of murder.

[susieice]

Myles, on 14 April 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

I agree, but a trial doesn't mean George is guilty of murder.

If the evidence points that way yes. If it doesn't no. Let the law do it's work.

Edited by susieice, 14 April 2012 - 05:07 PM.

[Babe Ruth]

Well, you have to admit that it is encouraging to see the system finally work!  Better late than never!  

[Socio]

Socio, on 14 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

There is nothing else to go by, so you do not only have to judge someone by their appearance, you must judge them for you and yours own safety.

It is the same reason that if you get on a plane today and if someone looks to be Muslim ALL eyes are on them, it not because everyone else on that plane are racist profilers, it is just the primal law of self preservation kicking in, it is human nature.

susieice, on 14 April 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

Yes but you can't jump them. You can't demand the stewardess remove them. The airline can't refuse them tickets. TSA has probably already put them through everything that they can.

No of course not, however if they become offended at you watching them and physically attacked you for it, then you would be well within your rights to defend yourself, even kill them if you thought they were trying to kill you, would you not?

Edited by Socio, 15 April 2012 - 11:14 AM.

[Babe Ruth]

Zimmerman is a predator vigilante.

[Bavarian Raven]

Quote

Zimmerman is a predator vigilante.

you have any proof of this statement atm?  

[Babe Ruth]

No, that's just the way I'm betting sir.

But by his actions in stalking Martin, he displays the behavior of a predator.  

[DieChecker]

susieice, on 14 April 2012 - 06:00 AM, said:

His dad said he was at work at the time this happened.

I thought his own dad said he was at dinner with the girlfriend.

Quote

He was close to home and may have thought he'd make it only I don't know what Zimmerman would have done if the kid went towards a house.

We really need a map of these events. As if Z's car was close to the house were Martin was staying that would back up Z's story, but if it is far from where the car was, that contradicts Martin's story.

Quote

He was 70 feet from home when he was shot.

I've read 100 yeards also, which is four times as far away. You'd think if Trayvon was shot that close to his house, (Basically the length of a house.) that a neighbor would have told the GF that the cops had been there and someone was shot. Which did not happen, so I'm inclined to think it was closer to 70 or 100 yards.

Quote

As to all the questions, this is why there needs to be a trial. Only when the witnesses, all of them, testify will we really know what they have to say. We all know what Zimmerman is claiming but will it stand up to the evidence? What was gathered at the crime scene is unknown to us. We know the prosecutor said it was helpful in reaching her decision. A lot is unknown to us and will remain so until it is told in court.

I do agree with you that there should be a trial at this point. I'm of the opinion however that the evidence will not be enough to convict. I wonder how they will find enough "impartial" people?

[lightly]

http://www.nytimes.c...?pagewanted=all

SANFORD, Fla. — Last August, Wendy Dorival got a call about setting up a local neighborhood watch. As the volunteer coordinator for the Police Department here, she gets such calls regularly, and the city already had at least 10 active watch groups. So she thought nothing of this call, from George Zimmerman.
◊ ◊ ◊ ◊ ◊ ◊
She set up a visit for the next month at the Retreat at Twin Lakes, a gated community that had been dealing with a string of burglaries. When 25 residents showed up, a decent turnout, she had the residents introduce themselves; after all, people join the groups to look out for each other. She then gave a PowerPoint presentation and distributed a handbook. As she always does, she emphasized what a neighborhood watch is — and what it is not.
◊ ◊ ◊ ◊
In every presentation, “I go through what the rules and responsibilities are,” she said Thursday. The volunteers’ role, she said, is “being the eyes and ears” for the police, “not the vigilante.” Members of a neighborhood watch “are not supposed to confront anyone,” she said. “We get paid to get into harm’s way. You don’t do that. You just call them from the safety of your home or your vehicle.”
◊ ◊
Using a gun in the neighborhood watch role would be out of the question, she said in an interview.
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
***
http://www.thegrio.c...rganization.php
When 28-year-old George Zimmerman was discovered by Sanford, Florida police standing over the body of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, they accepted Zimmerman's claim that he killed in self-defense as a neighborhood watch captain. Now, through a statement released by the National Sheriffs' Association (NSA) -- the parent organization of USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch -- it has been revealed that Zimmerman was not a member of any group recognized by the organization. Zimmerman violated the central tenets of Neighborhood Watch by following Martin, confronting him and carrying a concealed weapon.
"In no program that I have ever heard of does someone patrol with a gun in their pocket," Carmen Caldwell, the Executive Director of Citizens' Crime Watch of Miami-Dade, told theGrio. "Every city and municipality has their own policies. Here in Miami-Dade we train people only to be the eyes and ears of their communities. Not to follow and most definitely not to carry a weapon."

Edited by lightly, 15 April 2012 - 08:07 PM.

[DieChecker]

FLOMBIE, on 14 April 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

I see you guys are talking about racial profiling, and not about profiling in a criminal investigative way.

As for the bolded part, that is simply stupid. I can see no reason why things should be handled like this, especially if i look at it from a judical point of view. People are being jailed for not filling out papers, but get away for putting other people in danger?

It is how one of the local cities is handling profiling. They were acused of profiling many times and lost a lot of cases to liberal judges, so they have been forced to fall back on stupid procedures to prevent lawsuits.

This is the same town, Beaverton, where they have a zero tolerance gun law where children (Elementary school age) are routinely brought in for using tranparent water pistols in the front yard of their own house. Even using a bit of wood, or a stick and pretending to use it like a gun usually has the police show up and hand out warnings. A kid was arrested for carrying around a monopoly game gun token in his pocket.

[DieChecker]

lightly, on 15 April 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

http://www.nytimes.c...?pagewanted=all

SANFORD, Fla. — Last August, Wendy Dorival got a call about setting up a local neighborhood watch. As the volunteer coordinator for the Police Department here, she gets such calls regularly, and the city already had at least 10 active watch groups. So she thought nothing of this call, from George Zimmerman.
◊ ◊ ◊ ◊ ◊ ◊
She set up a visit for the next month at the Retreat at Twin Lakes, a gated community that had been dealing with a string of burglaries. When 25 residents showed up, a decent turnout, she had the residents introduce themselves; after all, people join the groups to look out for each other. She then gave a PowerPoint presentation and distributed a handbook. As she always does, she emphasized what a neighborhood watch is — and what it is not.
◊ ◊ ◊ ◊
In every presentation, “I go through what the rules and responsibilities are,” she said Thursday. The volunteers’ role, she said, is “being the eyes and ears” for the police, “not the vigilante.” Members of a neighborhood watch “are not supposed to confront anyone,” she said. “We get paid to get into harm’s way. You don’t do that. You just call them from the safety of your home or your vehicle.”
◊ ◊
Using a gun in the neighborhood watch role would be out of the question, she said in an interview.

I think it still depends on what what happened. No one that has posted here knows if Zimmerman tracked down Martin and confronted him. Even the girlfriend's testamony would seem to indicate that Martin went back. How could Zimmerman, a desk jocky, who got out and followed Trayvon, and lost him. Then somehow move fast enough, not only to catch up to Trayvon, but to confront him? So, I think Martin was coming back, probably to go to the house he was staying, and Zimmerman saw him at that point. Who walked up to who (And confronted who) is still in debate, or unknown. Should Zimmerman, when he saw Trayvon again, have run off? Maybe he thought Trayvon was coming over to tell him what he was doing there at night? There are endless reasons why the two would can come together, but ultimately one of them pushed the other and then Zimmerman was on the ground, and then the gun came out and Trayvon got shot. The series of events is sad, but the final action is that Martin feared for his life and he shot.

I look forward to the circus, drama, clowns and uber-emotional pleas to the media and the public that will come out in the trial. Trials should be won or lost on facts and evidence, not feelings, fear and public and political pressure.

[DieChecker]

lightly, on 14 April 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

There is some question as to whether Mr. Zimmerman is an official member of a Registered Neighborhood Watch .     That question aside...   According to this Government publicaton,  Mr. Zimmerman was not behaving in accordance with established Neighborhood watch policies.
  ...  I feel sorry for everyone involved in this horrible tragedy.

https://www.bja.gov/...a_nw_manual.pdf

Patrol members should be trained by law enforcement. It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles. They should also be cautioned to alert police or deputies when encountering strange activity. Members should never confront suspicious persons who could be armed and dangerous.

I have to agree, and said so in my first post, that Zimmerman should not have been carrying that gun as a representative of the neighborhood watch. He should have taken it off and left it in the car.

[DieChecker]

Babe Ruth, on 15 April 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

No, that's just the way I'm betting sir.

But by his actions in stalking Martin, he displays the behavior of a predator.  

Or a guard dog??