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Florida Teen murdered by


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#91    Leonardo

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:11 PM

View PostMyles, on 26 March 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

I think many peoples emotions and the race card have played into this.   Like I said earlier, before I started looking into this, I though an older white guy killed a little black kid.  I wonder how much of the evidence has been released to the public.

There is some justification to the current belief some entertain that there was an element of racism in the tragedy. Just because Zimmerman identifies himself ethnically as 'Hispanic' does not disqualify him from possibly being racist. I accept there is/was a common (mis)perception, in this case, that the allegations of racist behaviour meant Zimmerman was white, possibly also because his name is not usually associated with a person of Hispanic descent, but that is by-the-by.

View PostRafterman, on 26 March 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

So if, in the end, the shooting was deemed justifiable under Florida self-defense law, you really think everyone is going to be OK with that?

In my opinion the shooting cannot be justifiable under the "Stand your Ground" law, because Zimmerman pursued Martin. However, if the courts find insufficient cause to prosecute Zimmerman then the public will have to focus their sense of injustice on the poorly conceived 'law' that led to this killing becoming a debate in the first place.

I do not think everyone will be 'ok' with Zimmerman walking free, but that is irrelevant to the point I made to contradict yours - that people are, in the main, attempting to ascertain for themselves the facts of what actually happened.

Edited by Leonardo, 26 March 2012 - 05:13 PM.

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#92    Farmer77

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:58 PM

Now those interested in the "facts" have produced T-shirts in support of Treyvon My link

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#93    Rafterman

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:13 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 26 March 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:


I do not think everyone will be 'ok' with Zimmerman walking free, but that is irrelevant to the point I made to contradict yours - that people are, in the main, attempting to ascertain for themselves the facts of what actually happened.

You mean like this guy?

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#94    Myles

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:42 PM

View Postbigtroutak, on 26 March 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

Now those interested in the "facts" have produced T-shirts in support of Treyvon My link
Yep, nothing raqcist there.


#95    Drayno

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 07:29 PM

View PostRafterman, on 26 March 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

And that's fine.  If Zimmerman is guilty he should face the same justice system that any of us would face.

But as it's playing out, it seems that facts are the furthest thing from may folks' minds right now.

Race seems to be the primary issue, of course.

Obama seems to be marginalizing off of the popularity of this issue.. It is election year, so that sounds about right.

@ Leo -Indeed, people are trying to comprehend the facts.

In a situation like this, especially when you have one living witness, then facts are hard to decipher from fiction.

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#96    sam12six

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:13 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 26 March 2012 - 08:55 AM, said:

His action of assaulting an officer of the law does not necessarily reflect a tendency to violence but should, of itself, disqualified him from being able to obtain a gun licence.

I disagree that the simple charge, later dropped, of assaulting a police officer should be grounds for never being able to own a CC license. Though details of the incident are even sketchier than those surrounding the Zimmerman/Martin situation, the gist is that his friend was being arrested and he supposedly "pushed" the cop. We don't know if that means he put his hand on the guy's shoulder and asked if tazing someone 14 times wasn't a little excessive (obviously, we don't know for certain that he didn't aggressively push the cop for no reason, but I seriously doubt they would have dropped charges if he had).

I'm pretty convinced that your average cop would happily charge you with assault if you tried to break his toes with your genitals as you lay on the ground in handcuffs (I wonder, if that happened to a porn star, would it be attempted murder the way a karate black belt might be charged with attempted murder for a fight?).


#97    Myles

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:26 PM

View Postsam12six, on 26 March 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

I disagree that the simple charge, later dropped, of assaulting a police officer should be grounds for never being able to own a CC license. Though details of the incident are even sketchier than those surrounding the Zimmerman/Martin situation, the gist is that his friend was being arrested and he supposedly "pushed" the cop. We don't know if that means he put his hand on the guy's shoulder and asked if tazing someone 14 times wasn't a little excessive (obviously, we don't know for certain that he didn't aggressively push the cop for no reason, but I seriously doubt they would have dropped charges if he had).

I'm pretty convinced that your average cop would happily charge you with assault if you tried to break his toes with your genitals as you lay on the ground in handcuffs (I wonder, if that happened to a porn star, would it be attempted murder the way a karate black belt might be charged with attempted murder for a fight?).
It would have to be registered as a deadly weapon.   :w00t:

I know a guy (not real well) that had a 16 year old girlfriend when he was 18.   Things went bad (not violent) and now he has been a registered sex offender for 7-8 years.   He's a good kid too.  I don't find it fair, but it is what it is.   The thing is, until it is multiple charges, you have to take some arrests with a grain of salt.   Protect yourself and your loved ones, but be careful about forming judgements.


#98    Myles

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:44 PM

I also don't put too much into the fact that Trayvon was recently suspended from school for bringing pot to school.
It may point to Trayvon not being the innocent candy loving boy we have been told about.  But it doesn't mean he was a criminal either.


#99    Rafterman

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 09:03 PM

$abrina Fulton, Treymon Martin'$ mom has apparently trademarked digital material$, namely, CD$ and DVD$ featuring Trayvon Martin and the phra$e$ “I Am Trayvon” and “Ju$tice for Trayvon,”

Just exactly what I would do if my son were gunned down in cold blood.

cha-ching.

http://weaselzippers...dead-sons-name/

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#100    sam12six

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 09:14 PM

View PostMyles, on 26 March 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

It would have to be registered as a deadly weapon.   :w00t:

I know a guy (not real well) that had a 16 year old girlfriend when he was 18.   Things went bad (not violent) and now he has been a registered sex offender for 7-8 years.   He's a good kid too.  I don't find it fair, but it is what it is.   The thing is, until it is multiple charges, you have to take some arrests with a grain of salt.   Protect yourself and your loved ones, but be careful about forming judgements.

I have problems with the sex offender list... not that it exists, but for the sheer number of crimes that qualify someone for that lifelong legal stigma. I've heard tons of stories like what you're describing or someone who chose to pee in the wrong place. I've even read one story about how a guy was in jail for something minor (possession, in all likelihood) and chose to *AHEM* relieve sexual tension in the privacy of his solitary cell. Well, they had cameras for the cops to watch the prisoners and a female guard charged him with lewd conduct and it earned him a trip straight to the list.

Anyway, my point was just that I've never heard of a cop backing down on an assaulting an officer charge if the case had any merit at all, so since the charges were dropped (even in exchange for a plea on lesser charges), the sheer fact that the charge once existed shouldn't result in someone being treated as if he had been convicted.

View PostMyles, on 26 March 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

I also don't put too much into the fact that Trayvon was recently suspended from school for bringing pot to school.
It may point to Trayvon not being the innocent candy loving boy we have been told about.  But it doesn't mean he was a criminal either.

I doubt that Martin was either an angel or demon. Most normal teenagers fall squarely in the middle. Even if he were the worst scum known to man though, it wouldn't change what happened in THIS case.


#101    Drayno

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 09:49 PM

Things probably, from all indication, started when Zimmerman approached Trayvon. The kid probably responded negatively, because he lived there. If I was him I would have said something like, "Dude, I live here." But if Zimmerman didn't believe him, and was tossing orders at the kid, he probably got irritated and started arguing with him. What comes next is physical altercation. But who started it? Zimmerman accidentally started it by approaching the kid - but he was apart of the neighborhood watch. That would be like blaming a piece a candy for being so delicious. The guy was just doing his job. Think about police response time. I knew a guy who had people on his property - fooling around, messing with his shed. He called the cops - the cops said they would be there. So he told them he shot the people, and the cops then showed up momentarily. Zimmerman probably didn't have time to wait for the cops - because he thought it was a genuine break in. Forget race - forget everything else. He was hooded - so he looked like he was suspicious in the darkness. Not wanting a damn break in on his watch - knowing that the police would take long, he went in despite their advice.

And so here we are - the black community is in an uproar, Obama is dividing and not uniting, and there's all this controversy over a simple misunderstanding. But we have all these biased journalists throwing in their twists - and the administration of course is trying to get wind out of people because the b******* only care about being elected again. I'm not saying the guy was right in shooting the kid. But I believe this entire thing has been blown way out of proportion. Race has become too much of a factor, and it just isn't helping the situation. Zimmerman should be arrested for involuntary manslaughter, if found guilty.

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#102    glorybebe

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 01:24 AM

View PostDrayno, on 26 March 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

Things probably, from all indication, started when Zimmerman approached Trayvon. The kid probably responded negatively, because he lived there. If I was him I would have said something like, "Dude, I live here." But if Zimmerman didn't believe him, and was tossing orders at the kid, he probably got irritated and started arguing with him. What comes next is physical altercation. But who started it? Zimmerman accidentally started it by approaching the kid - but he was apart of the neighborhood watch. That would be like blaming a piece a candy for being so delicious. The guy was just doing his job. Think about police response time. I knew a guy who had people on his property - fooling around, messing with his shed. He called the cops - the cops said they would be there. So he told them he shot the people, and the cops then showed up momentarily. Zimmerman probably didn't have time to wait for the cops - because he thought it was a genuine break in. Forget race - forget everything else. He was hooded - so he looked like he was suspicious in the darkness. Not wanting a damn break in on his watch - knowing that the police would take long, he went in despite their advice.

And so here we are - the black community is in an uproar, Obama is dividing and not uniting, and there's all this controversy over a simple misunderstanding. But we have all these biased journalists throwing in their twists - and the administration of course is trying to get wind out of people because the b******* only care about being elected again. I'm not saying the guy was right in shooting the kid. But I believe this entire thing has been blown way out of proportion. Race has become too much of a factor, and it just isn't helping the situation. Zimmerman should be arrested for involuntary manslaughter, if found guilty.

I've read that he WASN'T part of the neigbourhood watch....either way, if he WAS part of it, shooting people is not ok.  the whole idea of a neighbourhood watch is to WATCH and report to police.  And not ignore the advice the police are giving him.  the whole situation is a crock.  He went out looking for trouble.  He takes a GUN out and follows a kid, what did he think the kid was going to do?  The guy is a menace and needs to be locked up IMO.

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#103    Socio

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 01:33 AM

View PostDrayno, on 26 March 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

Things probably, from all indication, started when Zimmerman approached Trayvon. The kid probably responded negatively, because he lived there. If I was him I would have said something like, "Dude, I live here." But if Zimmerman didn't believe him, and was tossing orders at the kid, he probably got irritated and started arguing with him. What comes next is physical altercation. But who started it? Zimmerman accidentally started it by approaching the kid - but he was apart of the neighborhood watch. That would be like blaming a piece a candy for being so delicious. The guy was just doing his job. Think about police response time. I knew a guy who had people on his property - fooling around, messing with his shed. He called the cops - the cops said they would be there. So he told them he shot the people, and the cops then showed up momentarily. Zimmerman probably didn't have time to wait for the cops - because he thought it was a genuine break in. Forget race - forget everything else. He was hooded - so he looked like he was suspicious in the darkness. Not wanting a damn break in on his watch - knowing that the police would take long, he went in despite their advice.

And so here we are - the black community is in an uproar, Obama is dividing and not uniting, and there's all this controversy over a simple misunderstanding. But we have all these biased journalists throwing in their twists - and the administration of course is trying to get wind out of people because the b******* only care about being elected again. I'm not saying the guy was right in shooting the kid. But I believe this entire thing has been blown way out of proportion. Race has become too much of a factor, and it just isn't helping the situation. Zimmerman should be arrested for involuntary manslaughter, if found guilty.

If you live in an area that requires neighborhood watch patrols due to high crime rate and you dress like a gang banging thug you will earn the same suspicion and mistrust of a real gang banging thug, that is not stereotypical nor racist, it is just common sense.

It is the very black community that is in an uproar that glorifies this lifestyle, manner of dress etc... and no doubt should get the lions share of the blame when things like this happen.

The black community is the black communities own worst enemy!

Edited by Socio, 27 March 2012 - 01:34 AM.


#104    Farmer77

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 01:54 AM

View PostSocio, on 27 March 2012 - 01:33 AM, said:

If you live in an area that requires neighborhood watch patrols due to high crime rate and you dress like a gang banging thug you will earn the same suspicion and mistrust of a real gang banging thug, that is not stereotypical nor racist, it is just common sense.

It is the very black community that is in an uproar that glorifies this lifestyle, manner of dress etc... and no doubt should get the lions share of the blame when things like this happen.

The black community is the black communities own worst enemy!


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#105    susieice

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 02:10 AM

View PostRafterman, on 26 March 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

So if, in the end, the shooting was deemed justifiable under Florida self-defense law, you really think everyone is going to be OK with that?
No not really. I think it's too late now. Vigilante justice doesn't work and I hope people realize that. Notify your local law enforcement if you see any suspicious activity and let them investigate. If they tell you to back off, do so. Do not force a confrontation.
Race really doesn't have anything to do with it. Common sense and good judgment does.
Most people I know think this should not have happened. They are not racist. In fact, they come from the black, white and hispanic communities.

Edited by susieice, 27 March 2012 - 02:13 AM.

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