22 replies to this topic

[unit]

it'snotoutthere, just internet search solar cannon or star cannon, throw the keyword russia in there also..

..there was also a more recent russian news interview, what seemed to be some drunken russian tycoon snapping to a news reporter about hey no worries we have one of them too (classified weapon) and we'll use it (that is, if you put much stock into what a drunk russian says?)

[cenobite]

Babe Ruth, on 30 April 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Yes, I agree with everything you say, except possibly for your statement that 'it's a bunch of crap.'

Maybe it is, and maybe it's not.  What I can remember is that we were in disagreement with the Russians on many things during the Cold War, but those disagreements were resolved in time to partner with them in the International Space Station.

The story this man tells could very well be true.

well of course it could be true, but i very much doubt it, firstly the terra 3 laser was never intended as a weapon in itself it was meant as a tracking system, its red laser was far too weak to do any damage, US scientists were (after the cold war admitedly) allowed to inspect the facility and it was later decommisioned and demolished. secondly the russians already had the capability to track the shuttle, why would they need to track it with a missile tracking device that was already known to the US? if it was new tech then perhaps you could understand them 'showing it off' to scare the US. It has been said the soviets believed the shuttle was being used as a spying platform (this could well be true) but the U2 and SR-71 were still in service at this time as well as spy satellites that the soviets also knew of, why not fire this 'weapon' at those targets to? and thirdly the soviets loved a bit of propaganda at this time, if this had happened they would have been shouting it from the rooftops announcing their technical superiority over the US, also and most critically firing a weapon at the shuttle would most certainly be considered an act of war, the shuttle at the time was also carrying canadian citizen for the soviets to do this would have been madness especially as we had the MAD (mutually assured destruction) doctrine at the time do you really think the soviets would risk world destruction over something as trivial as a shuttle flight? i think not
again just my opinion, could have happened but i sincerely doubt it, just read 15 minutes by L Douglas Keeney it'll give you more understanding as to why bull**** conspiracy theories like this are so unlikely and also that the truth is a lot scarier than stories like this
peace out

[Babe Ruth]

Cenobite

It seems you answer some of your own questions, or provide material to counter your suspicions.  I would find it entirely possible that some angry Russian, knowing full well he did not have a weapons grade laser device, might want to experiment and find out just what WOULD happen were he to train his tracking device on the american spacecraft.  I agree his actions were reckless, but as you say, truth is often stranger than fiction.

The Chinese used unconventional methods to bring down a satellite just a few years ago, and this event might be somehow similar.

This might not be a 'conspiracy theory', this might be the accurate account of a man that worked within the system.

It seems all your cards rest on the premise that a Russian would not do anything crazy.  I find that improbable.

[mrbusdriver]

Babe Ruth, on 30 April 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

Checking public information at NASA website, STS 41G, the flight in question in this thread, was launched with a northeast (57 degree) inclination, which determines that its orbit would have placed it over Russia.

Most launch inclinations are southeast, this one was northeast.

It sounds like you're having some difficulty with "inclinations"...

Prior to missions to Mir and ISS. the typical inclinations targeted for launch were around 30 degrees. This launch trajectory results in and orbit that goes around the earth, and as the Earth rotates below the orbiting Shuttle, the "groundtrack" will cover the Earth in a belt from ~30N to 30S latitude. Launching southeast will not significantly change this.
The "space station" launches to Mir and ISS (which Challenger never undertook) required a much higher inclination, 48 degrees or so (Russian launch sites are high latitude). This required more energy, due to both the higher inclination and the higher target altitude.

So in general there is no "southeast" or "northeast" inclinations...just initial launch vectors that result in a given orbital inclination. There would be no operational reason to launch southeast that I know of (at least from KSC).

edit...I fouled up, it would appear that the Challenger flight was indeed a higher inclination orbit as stated. This would be launched in a more northeasterly direction (much as with the ISS flights) vs the more easterly launches for lower inclination missions. My error. Nonetheless, they never launched southeast.

Edited by mrbusdriver, 01 May 2012 - 02:12 AM.

[Babe Ruth]

I appreciate your candor and correction BusDriver.

I'm certainly no authority on it, but a very good friend of mine is obsessed with Shuttle stuff.  He has even paid the price and participated in simulator sessions.  Anyway, it was he who told me about the significance of the launch inclination as to final orbit.

Otherwise, he said pretty much the same thing you did.

[unit]

Quote

the soviets believed the shuttle was being used as a spying platform

there was ONE xerox machine in russia at one time in the past.. they special ordered it, had to come from western technology..[sinister music]
there was a little spy device inserted in that xerox machine
a specially trained technician [western agent] would service it and retrieve the information from time to time

Quote

sputnik

i could never confirm this.. but wasn't the module sitting in a detroit warehouse for some months BEFORE they shipped it over for the russians?



it's all secrets and lies - homer simpson

[cenobite]

well as i have said this is all just my opinion, just find it a little hard to swallow is all, i guess my final point would be is that if it was fired to track the shuttle it would not do any damage because it was not an effective weapon, it would not have caused the crew distress (unless the soviets were shining it through the cockpit window into their eyes!)and being as the US knew all about the terra 3 and that the soviets already tracked the shuttle as a matter of course, it seems unlikely that the world was on the brink of war because of it, of course if it was an effective weapon..the world would now be a barren nuclear wasteland!
ta ra for now

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

The opening to the Dramatic Revelations doesn't perhaps give you much optimism in its accuracy..

"Terra 3 was used against the United States of America (U.S.A.) Space Shuttle Challenger for an attack on its' mission while being flown over the Union of Soviet Sovereign Republics (U.S.S.R)!"

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