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Homeopathy 'biologically implausible'


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#1    Saru

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:32 AM

Leading researchers have warned that homeopathy is not only ineffective but potentially dangerous.

Telegraph said:

Edzard Ernst, Professor of Complementary Medicine at Exeter University, said homeopathic remedies had not been proven to work in clinical trials. People who still maintain the treatments are effective are "ignoring or misrepresenting the best evidence available", he added.

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#2    keenu

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 02:13 PM

Wouldn't being healed by taking sugar pills be also implausale? It just proves that it isn't the medicine that heals...it's the belief that heals. We heal ourselves but we have lost that belief. So we need a medicine to believe in.  Just like belief in god. We forget that we create our own reality so we attribute the creation to some god. We forget that we heal ourselves so we attribute the healing to some medicine.


#3    Simbi Laveau

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 02:59 PM

the key sentence in that article is : "foregoing proper medical care".
Translation : not buying into our scheister system and making US money .

Homeopathy is very old,and people have used it for decades.
If it was that ineffective,it would have been made redundant ,decades ago.

IT WORKS ON ANIMALS.As does acupuncture .No animal is going to have a belief this will work .They have no idea whats being done to them .
This is what TOTALLY NEGATES *all* alleged studies saying alternative cures only work because we think it will.
It works on animals,who have no such predisposition .

And any "expert" that claims any alternative therapy doesnt work ,probably owns big pharm stocks .lolz
Most medical school professors at ivy league schools own pharm stocks,so what is it you think they teach their students .
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#4    Zarifa

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 04:17 PM

Many things are implausible by our current scientific standards. It doesn't mean that they can't be comprehended, once we solve for the variables. Personally, I'll stick with homeopathy and acupuncture where indicated. They work for me, without carrying the far more dangerous side effects and interactions of pharmaceutical drugs so rampantly out of control in our society.


#5    Rolci

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 04:22 PM

View Postmissymoo999, on 19 March 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

IT WORKS ON ANIMALS.As does acupuncture .No animal is going to have a belief this will work .They have no idea whats being done to them.
This is what TOTALLY NEGATES *all* alleged studies saying alternative cures only work because we think it will.

Sorry to see you have failed to do your homework. You are forgetting the person carrying out the healing. What about them? Do they have no belief in the procedure? Oh wait, if they didn't they wouldn't be doing the healing. Well in that case, could it be that their belief may have some sort of effect on the healing process? If you do more research you will find that when researchers are investigating for example clairvoyance, they have realized that they have to take into account the researchers' beliefs, as they will influence the results just as well as the beliefs of the subjects do. This showed when a group of scientists were asked to investigate the results of an alleged ESP experiment. The results were collected by another group of researchers, but the results were not looked at. The investigating researchers found the usual small but consistent and statistically substantive deviation from "results that'd be due to chance alone". The trick was, the subjects doing the tests were non-believers, and were NOT asked to concentrate on anything during the test, so it was a pure chance experiment. So it turns out, the tree in the wood is not really there until there is someone to look at it. If you're asked to heal an animal with the laying on of hands but you don't believe in it, it won't work.

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#6    Rlyeh

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 04:27 PM

View PostZarifa, on 19 March 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

Many things are implausible by our current scientific standards. It doesn't mean that they can't be comprehended, once we solve for the variables. Personally, I'll stick with homeopathy and acupuncture where indicated. They work for me, without carrying the far more dangerous side effects and interactions of pharmaceutical drugs so rampantly out of control in our society.
No one is saying you can't drink water and eat sugar pills, but calling them a medical treatment is outright ignorance.


#7    Rlyeh

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 04:38 PM

View Postkeenu, on 19 March 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

Wouldn't being healed by taking sugar pills be also implausale? It just proves that it isn't the medicine that heals...it's the belief that heals. We heal ourselves but we have lost that belief. So we need a medicine to believe in.  Just like belief in god. We forget that we create our own reality so we attribute the creation to some god. We forget that we heal ourselves so we attribute the healing to some medicine.
Posted Image

You do realise clinical trials are run with a placebo?

You're making it sound like everything is one big placebo effect. If belief is all that mattered, no one would ever get unwittingly drugged or poisoned.

Edited by Rlyeh, 19 March 2012 - 04:42 PM.


#8    Rolci

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:28 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 19 March 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

No one is saying you can't drink water and eat sugar pills, but calling them a medical treatment is outright ignorance.

No one is saying you can't ingest pills with God only knows what in them, but trying to alleviate symptoms rather than healing the root cause is outright ignorance. It's like, if you're an intolerable person and your marriage isn't working, you get divorced, and in your next marriage you're surprised you find yourself in the same situation. So you "take another pill" (get divorced again) hoping that it will "cure" things. Could it be that maybe you need to look into yourself instead? Sounds simple, still not many people actually try it. Weird...

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#9    Simbi Laveau

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:39 PM

View PostRolci, on 19 March 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

Sorry to see you have failed to do your homework. You are forgetting the person carrying out the healing. What about them? Do they have no belief in the procedure? Oh wait, if they didn't they wouldn't be doing the healing. Well in that case, could it be that their belief may have some sort of effect on the healing process? If you do more research you will find that when researchers are investigating for example clairvoyance, they have realized that they have to take into account the researchers' beliefs, as they will influence the results just as well as the beliefs of the subjects do. This showed when a group of scientists were asked to investigate the results of an alleged ESP experiment. The results were collected by another group of researchers, but the results were not looked at. The investigating researchers found the usual small but consistent and statistically substantive deviation from "results that'd be due to chance alone". The trick was, the subjects doing the tests were non-believers, and were NOT asked to concentrate on anything during the test, so it was a pure chance experiment. So it turns out, the tree in the wood is not really there until there is someone to look at it. If you're asked to heal an animal with the laying on of hands but you don't believe in it, it won't work.

The healer believes in the process of course,but youre pretty much saying,a healer can heal anyone or anything,merely by their intent .
That is the premise behind qi gong healing .
However,that also totally negates the whole psychosematic issue presented here.
2 different animals .

Psychosematic healing is :The only reason the patient gets better,is because their mind is making it so.

Not even i think horses that get acupuncture,get better because the acupuncturist wills it .
No way do they know the acupuncture is to make them well or in better form.
(ALL,as in ALL racehorses,get acupuncture on a regular basis)

A sick animal,if its disease is beyond help,will succumb,wether the practioner puts chi into the meridians or not .


And thanks,but i have no need to do homework on alternative therapies or how they work .

I have a basic understanding of homeopathy ,and i have my doctorate in chinese medicine.

My degree means i can do acupuncture ,dispense chinese herbs,and have an extensive understanding of both.
We take board exams to get licensed btw,just like an MD.
4 days worth of boards.


Im also a practitioner of craniosacal therapy,and I was a nyc paramedic for a lloonnnngggg time.

I know eastern,and western medicine .This is where my bias comes from ......

Edited by missymoo999, 19 March 2012 - 06:46 PM.

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#10    FurthurBB

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:40 PM

View Postkeenu, on 19 March 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

Wouldn't being healed by taking sugar pills be also implausale? It just proves that it isn't the medicine that heals...it's the belief that heals. We heal ourselves but we have lost that belief. So we need a medicine to believe in.  Just like belief in god. We forget that we create our own reality so we attribute the creation to some god. We forget that we heal ourselves so we attribute the healing to some medicine.

No, healing by sugar pills is not implausible because only certain things can be cured by the placebo effect.  Pain responds the best to the placebo effect which makes a lot of sense because we have systems that have an ability to reduce pain and it is the same one involved in he placebo effect.  Also, acute viral infections clear faster with the placebo effect, which also makes perfect sense.  People who think they are being treated behave in a way which actually does speed the clearance of the virus.  On the other hand bacterial and parasitic infections do not respond well to the placebo effect which also makes a lot of sense when you know what is actually going on.  So, these are measurable effects and can be explained quite easily.  We do not create our own reality, but we do have more control over our biological systems than we think.

Edited by FurthurBB, 19 March 2012 - 06:41 PM.


#11    Rlyeh

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:48 PM

View PostRolci, on 19 March 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

No one is saying you can't ingest pills with God only knows what in them, but trying to alleviate symptoms rather than healing the root cause is outright ignorance. It's like, if you're an intolerable person and your marriage isn't working, you get divorced, and in your next marriage you're surprised you find yourself in the same situation. So you "take another pill" (get divorced again) hoping that it will "cure" things. Could it be that maybe you need to look into yourself instead? Sounds simple, still not many people actually try it. Weird...
And sugar pills with water will do that for you?

Maybe it will treat tetanus and syphilis too?

Edited by Rlyeh, 19 March 2012 - 06:54 PM.


#12    ouija ouija

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:48 PM

View Postmissymoo999, on 19 March 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

the key sentence in that article is : "foregoing proper medical care".
Translation : not buying into our scheister system and making US money .

Homeopathy is very old,and people have used it for decades.
If it was that ineffective,it would have been made redundant ,decades ago.

IT WORKS ON ANIMALS.As does acupuncture .No animal is going to have a belief this will work .They have no idea whats being done to them .
This is what TOTALLY NEGATES *all* alleged studies saying alternative cures only work because we think it will.
It works on animals,who have no such predisposition .

And any "expert" that claims any alternative therapy doesnt work ,probably owns big pharm stocks .lolz
Most medical school professors at ivy league schools own pharm stocks,so what is it you think they teach their students .
DDDDDDDUUUUUHHHHHH....
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Just agreeing with what she(?) said.

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#13    DieChecker

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:22 PM

I totally believe that Homeopathy is a scam. It is not even the substance that does the "healing" is the the "spirit" of the substance that does the healing. Test after test. Trial after trial have shown this not to be a true medical treatment. Not any more then placebo effect anyway. Medicines that are prescribed by a doctor do not work that way. The medicine has a known effect on a known oomponent of the body. This chemical interacts with that receptor...

Homeopathy is just a D&D healing potion.

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#14    DieChecker

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:38 PM

View Postmissymoo999, on 19 March 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

And thanks,but i have no need to do homework on alternative therapies or how they work .

I have a basic understanding of homeopathy ,and i have my doctorate in chinese medicine.

My degree means i can do acupuncture ,dispense chinese herbs,and have an extensive understanding of both.
We take board exams to get licensed btw,just like an MD.
4 days worth of boards.
Ahhh... That explains a lot of your positions on these forums.

:tu:

The entire idea of Homeopathy requires belief in Water Memory. And that the water in the concoction retains the properties of the medicine/herb used, even after there is nothing left of the medicine or herb in the water. Science has shown that "water memory" is only possible for thousands of a nano-second. So to believe in homeopathy one must first suspect belief in science and the scientific method.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#15    sergeantflynn

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 09:10 PM

Hmmmm. So people cannot be cured by taking a diluted form of the illness . So much for vaccines .





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