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Homeopathy 'biologically implausible'


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#16    Odin11

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 09:13 PM

View Postsergeantflynn, on 19 March 2012 - 09:10 PM, said:

Hmmmm. So people cannot be cured by taking a diluted form of the illness . So much for vaccines .


Yeah, not at all the same thing, but I think you know that.

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#17    Arbenol

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 09:17 PM

View Postsergeantflynn, on 19 March 2012 - 09:10 PM, said:

Hmmmm. So people cannot be cured by taking a diluted form of the illness . So much for vaccines .

Hmmmmm. I'm not sure that's really an accurate comparison.

A vaccine is an attenuated form of the illness causing agent.

Homeopathy is an almost infinitely diluted form of a substance that causes similar symptoms to the illness.

There's a huge difference.


#18    Odin11

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 09:31 PM

For people who learn better by watching things then reading, I found a good video where a guy explains homeopathy.



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#19    Simbi Laveau

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:04 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 19 March 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

Ahhh... That explains a lot of your positions on these forums.

:tu:

The entire idea of Homeopathy requires belief in Water Memory. And that the water in the concoction retains the properties of the medicine/herb used, even after there is nothing left of the medicine or herb in the water. Science has shown that "water memory" is only possible for thousands of a nano-second. So to believe in homeopathy one must first suspect belief in science and the scientific method.
Forgive my ire,I am just very passionate about it all,given my experiences on both sides of the coin.
I just have no respect for western medicine anymore.I lived for my job once upon a time,and I almost went to medical school.I thank god every day that I didn't.
I've watched western medicine go from a great thing,to a degenerate money making machine,at the expense of loved ones lives.
I will tell you why I believe homeopathy works.
I didn't believe in it .
We are talking 2002 ish. I was already immersed in Chinese medicine,and I was still working on the ambulance part time.

Some of these meds,are both in homeopathy and Chinese medicine,but not all.
If you read homeopathy notes,they say things like ,symptoms include screaming,fearfulness,yelping .
That right there makes me go wtf?
The premise is to fight like  with like.

I ignored it all until....
I had adopted a very unusual cat ,in June of that year. I still have him.
He had been badly abused in ways I cannot even go into.
The day I took him home,he went into status asthmaticus.
He got numerous shots,because he would not tollerate anything by mouth.
He still won't.He has paws like a small puma,his claws HURT .I had to buy Kevlar animal handlers gloves ,to handle him when hes grumpy.
So he had an attack,per month .
Shots of steroid ,so frequently,will just destroy adrenals over time.
Also,he scratched the vet,and it was as if he was being abused again,every time I took him for shots.

People recommended that feline asthma inhaler.
Yah,not happening.

Then,late in the year,he went into status asthmaticus again.Worse than ever .
He got so many shots,so many vet visits,over 2 weeks,it was agony.
Nothing broke the episode.
I realized later,it was because I changed the kitty litter to Feline Pine.
(feline pine has stuff in it like pine sol .not good for asthmatics)

When he finally pulled out of it,I said,I have to find an alternative to this.I was thinking of herbs,but I wasn't sure ephedra was a good idea for him .


A friend of mine,at this time ,said,"take him to my vet.I won't take my animals to anyone else."
Shes a homeopathic vet.
I was dubious,and she was $$$,but I had to try something.

He scratched her,and pooped on her.
She gave me 2 remedies for him.

I was taking him in for monthly episodes at this time,without fail.Sometimes he went into it 2x a month.

I gave him the remedies,as directed,and he had one more attack the following month,which is common with homeopathy.
So he got the homeopathic meds ,had one attack,and never had one,ever again.Ever .
So we went from 1-2 attacks,monthly,to nothing.
He hasn't had an attack since I think early 2003 it was.

That was enough for me.
I go to her only for tough medical issues .
She saved him,extended one dying cats life,with quality,for six months(she was 24,and in end stage renal failure).
She tried to save my boy with the FIP,as some homeopaths have cured FIP,but nothing worked for him.
FIP is considered 100% fatal.Western medicine gives you no option,so I had nothing to lose im that case.

But that was enough for me.I learned a lot about it during my researching how to control FIP.
FIP was the only time it failed,but then so did everything else.

I know people who take their children to homeopaths,and swear by it.
A friend of mine is an MD,and she took a course in it,and her daughter gets homeopathic meds ,before western ones,because she,as a doctor,has reservations about the state of our  pharmaceuticals.

So,I believe in all of this stuff,because in my life,Chinese medicine included,it worked ,where western medicine failed.

I watch doctors barely out of school,totally mess people up,by giving them one drug,which causes all these other issues with side affects,so they give another 3 drugs,to combat the side affects ,and then they seem to be too stupid to make the connection to the original drug.
The patient is on 6 meds ,when all they had was a headache to begin with.

I mean it's pathetic.
That is not to say,that you do not have mds who have a clue and errr on the side of common sense,but they are few and far between now.


So you can all call me the tree hugging herbalist with the big mouth from now on .I wear it proudly .

Edited by missymoo999, 19 March 2012 - 10:08 PM.

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#20    ouija ouija

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:43 PM

The thing is, millions of people around the world take homeopathic remedies and go on taking them whenever they get ill ...... they are the first thing they reach for ..... why would they go on doing this if they didn't work? If something didn't work, why would you keep using it? To me, the reason WHY the remedies work really doesn't matter because all I'm concerned about is that they DO work! I can treat myself more often than not.

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#21    Rolci

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 12:28 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 19 March 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

And sugar pills with water will do that for you?

Maybe it will treat tetanus and syphilis too?

So you're saying a paracetamol will cure cancer. Intriguing theory, based on your conclusion (which I have no idea where it came from) that ONE type of alternative medicine cures it all, implying that one orthodox medicine will cure all diseases. FYI, there are several methods, procedures and medications in both fields. No, sugar pills will not cure all diseases, just like paracetamol will not cure... well, anything really. But why does someone need to be told all this? I thought you'd figure out as much. You look at the disease, determine the root cause and apply the relevant treatment. Not rocket science. Where have you been? Are you like 6 years old or what?

Edited by Rolci, 20 March 2012 - 12:30 AM.

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#22    glorybebe

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 01:30 AM

View Postouija ouija, on 19 March 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

The thing is, millions of people around the world take homeopathic remedies and go on taking them whenever they get ill ...... they are the first thing they reach for ..... why would they go on doing this if they didn't work? If something didn't work, why would you keep using it? To me, the reason WHY the remedies work really doesn't matter because all I'm concerned about is that they DO work! I can treat myself more often than not.


I agree.  The shamans knew many healing properties of the plants around them.  Where does Aspirin come from?  By the time the doctors wanted to learn from the natives about the plants of North America, the natives refused.
Another big problem today is our diets.  The amounts of vitamins and minerals are depleted in what we eat, overtaxing of the land, picking the fruits and vegetables way too early, feeding animals a strict diet to encourage their growth and tenderness...I am not saying that medicines are not needed, but there has been so much abuse with them, that is why we are seeing strains of diseases that cannot be treated anymore.

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#23    DieChecker

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 01:46 AM

View Postmissymoo999, on 19 March 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:

That was enough for me.
I go to her only for tough medical issues .
She saved him,extended one dying cats life,with quality,for six months(she was 24,and in end stage renal failure).
She tried to save my boy with the FIP,as some homeopaths have cured FIP,but nothing worked for him.
FIP is considered 100% fatal.Western medicine gives you no option,so I had nothing to lose im that case.

But that was enough for me.I learned a lot about it during my researching how to control FIP.
FIP was the only time it failed,but then so did everything else.

I know people who take their children to homeopaths,and swear by it.
A friend of mine is an MD,and she took a course in it,and her daughter gets homeopathic meds ,before western ones,because she,as a doctor,has reservations about the state of our  pharmaceuticals.

So,I believe in all of this stuff,because in my life,Chinese medicine included,it worked ,where western medicine failed.

I watch doctors barely out of school,totally mess people up,by giving them one drug,which causes all these other issues with side affects,so they give another 3 drugs,to combat the side affects ,and then they seem to be too stupid to make the connection to the original drug.
The patient is on 6 meds ,when all they had was a headache to begin with.

I mean it's pathetic.
That is not to say,that you do not have mds who have a clue and errr on the side of common sense,but they are few and far between now.


So you can all call me the tree hugging herbalist with the big mouth from now on .I wear it proudly .
You tree hugging herbalist....

Like you didn't see that coming.

I do agree that if you have nothing to loose Alternative Medicine is better then no hope at all.

I also agree that Western medicine concentrates too much on the Treatment and not enough on the Patient.

Also, Homeopaths don't just practice homeopathy, right? They are like naturopaths and Chinese Medicine practicioners who use a combination of techniques not just homeopathy.

I'd still first turn to my Western Medicine doctor, but I would definately try an alternative doctor it I had nothing to loose and everything to gain. But, then, I have really good insurance from work, so I don't have to pay those exorbitant prices that some others would have to.

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#24    firefly128

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 01:48 AM

I gotta disagree with the article. True, I can't think of one logical reason why it should work, but I have tried it once and it was great. I have really severe cat allergies & was dating a guy with a cat; I tried everything to help my reactions and nothing really worked... I ended up trying homeopathy out of sheer desperation (since I was really skeptical of it). While it didn't relieve my allergies 100%, it was way more effective than anything else I tried. lol, and it definitely wasn't the placebo effect, since I went in thinking it probably wouldn't work, but I might as well try...

Edited by firefly128, 20 March 2012 - 01:49 AM.


#25    firefly128

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 01:54 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 20 March 2012 - 01:46 AM, said:


I'd still first turn to my Western Medicine doctor, but I would definately try an alternative doctor it I had nothing to loose and everything to gain. But, then, I have really good insurance from work, so I don't have to pay those exorbitant prices that some others would have to.

Haha, I'm the other way around. If I have an infection or an injury, I see a regular doctor. If I have a more subtle problem (like the adrenal fatigue & hormone imbalances I've been healing up from) I see a naturopath - not a homeopath, though, you're right that there's a difference there. My naturopath is basically a regular doctor with a different perspective on how to treat people and an arsenal of herbal medicines. I've gotten great results from seeing her :) But with regular doctors, I've found that with a couple of the problems I've had, I've repeatedly gotten answers along the lines of "Our tests can't find anything wrong with you, but your symptoms clearly are related to hormone imbalances... let's just put you on birth control pills/antidepressants/anti-anxiety meds and forget about it." Great stuff, that.


#26    Rlyeh

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 07:16 AM

View PostRolci, on 20 March 2012 - 12:28 AM, said:

So you're saying a paracetamol will cure cancer.
Did I? Would you mind showing me where?

Quote

Intriguing theory, based on your conclusion (which I have no idea where it came from) that ONE type of alternative medicine cures it all, implying that one orthodox medicine will cure all diseases. FYI, there are several methods, procedures and medications in both fields. No, sugar pills will not cure all diseases
Or any for that matter. Homeopathy cures *nothing*, its a placebo.

Quote

But why does someone need to be told all this? I thought you'd figure out as much. You look at the disease, determine the root cause and apply the relevant treatment. Not rocket science. Where have you been? Are you like 6 years old or what?
So you just assumed that from my post?
Perhaps you'd like to work on your comprehension skills some time.


#27    Simbi Laveau

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 06:12 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 20 March 2012 - 01:46 AM, said:

You tree hugging herbalist....

Like you didn't see that coming.

I do agree that if you have nothing to loose Alternative Medicine is better then no hope at all.

I also agree that Western medicine concentrates too much on the Treatment and not enough on the Patient.

Also, Homeopaths don't just practice homeopathy, right? They are like naturopaths and Chinese Medicine practicioners who use a combination of techniques not just homeopathy.

I'd still first turn to my Western Medicine doctor, but I would definately try an alternative doctor it I had nothing to loose and everything to gain. But, then, I have really good insurance from work, so I don't have to pay those exorbitant prices that some others would have to.
When it comes to my animals,I go to a regular vet first,and get tests done,and find out what is going on .
If i have a western diagnosis,I can translate it into an eastern one.
Animals are harder to diagnose with Chinese medicine,as we cannot look at their tongue,and take their pulse. We can go by some symptoms,but its not definative.
With a human,it helps to have diagnostics done,but we basically use another modality of medicine.
That's all it is.Another way to do it.
And actually no,not all homeopathy practitioners do any other form of medicine.
I am in no way certified to do homepathy. I have a basic working knowledge of it.
Their solutions confuse the hell out of me.
Lower solutions seem to work much better than higher concentrations.
Right over my head.
So I can only use homeopathy on myself or my animals,if i choose to.
You might want to look at the homeopathic line by Boiron.
Some of their stuff has saved my life .
Literally . I had experienced a severe lung burn from chlorine gas .
Long story ,but i was looking at hospital time.
Neh,They make this stuff called Chestal,that totally kept me clear and from wheezing,or getting any edema. Worked better than an inhaled and steroids ,in this case.
I also swear by their occilliococcinum.

I usually opt for Chinese herbs ,as a rule ,as they are my forte ,but I slip some homepathic stuff in on occaision.

As for my patients,I cannot legally tell them to take any homeopathic meds,so i don't .

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#28    Simbi Laveau

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 06:15 PM

View Postouija ouija, on 19 March 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

The thing is, millions of people around the world take homeopathic remedies and go on taking them whenever they get ill ...... they are the first thing they reach for ..... why would they go on doing this if they didn't work? If something didn't work, why would you keep using it? To me, the reason WHY the remedies work really doesn't matter because all I'm concerned about is that they DO work! I can treat myself more often than not.
Touche ! :yes:

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#29    Rhincewind

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 10:03 AM

when my piggy has cystitas she had cranberry juice instead of POMS. She loved it.


#30    None of the above

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 06:23 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 19 March 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

Homeopathy is just a D&D healing potion.

Whoa there pilgrim! D&D healing potions actually work!





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