90 replies to this topic

[WhyDontYouBeliEveMe]

orangepeaceful79, on 20 March 2012 - 03:20 AM, said:

My views and beliefs are constantly evolving as I absorb new information.  A year ago I would have been on the other side of the fence honestly.  And truth be told I came to UM a believer in paranormal things.  If anything UM showed me that all the things I had previously considered to be proof of the paranormal could easily be explained, and that realization upped the bar for what I consider to be evidence.  Thus my skepticism was born.  

Someday maybe evidence will be gathered and studied and some of the things i am skeptical of will be proven to exist.  I'll happily change my mind.  I miss believing in paranormal things.  The world is a more fun place when its full of real ghosts and bigfoots and mokele mbembes.    

I'm not a skeptic because I like pissing people off.  I don't even like conflict.  I just have a requirement for evidence and data that didn't exist in me before I came to this site.  So in reality, all you believers around here created a skeptic.  

pathetic lol .. just admit it people like you  just cant  accept the truth .
evidence and proof? there's alot of it ..  2 bad you cant see the differences between real images ,videos. of ghost ... and photoshop material . ..
in the eyes of a skeptic .. everything is fake .
even 100 % proof of a ghostly picture couldnt possible convince a skeptic.  its better to talk to a wall ..

seriuosly . tell me . can you handle the truth?

[booNyzarC]

WhyDontYouBeliEveMe, on 26 March 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

pathetic lol .. just admit it people like you  just cant  accept the truth .
evidence and proof? there's alot of it ..  2 bad you cant see the differences between real images ,videos. of ghost ... and photoshop material . ..
in the eyes of a skeptic .. everything is fake .
even 100 % proof of a ghostly picture couldnt possible convince a skeptic.  its better to talk to a wall ..

I trust that you can produce some of this proof you are talking about?

I'm ready to see it, can you share it with us?

WhyDontYouBeliEveMe, on 26 March 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

seriuosly . tell me . can you handle the truth?

Can you?

[CakeOrDeath]

So the one person stated as "evidence" and a good sign, his girl friend died in the morning, he didn't know yet.  His door bell rings but no one was there. Boom proof of the paranormal.  Ever hear of a little annoying age-old thing like, "ding dong ditch" ?

Also I totally agree with Orange, great post.  I didn't come here a "believer" or a "skeptic" honestly.  I am came here because I was curious and this site seemed less "ZoMG REALZ GHOST PIC" then some others.  After spending YEARS viewing all of the different topics, posted by Mods, members and random drive-bys, I became more convinced that there isn't any good evidence. So I am skeptical. (That does not make me a non-believer)

But the people who try to label all these intelligent, helpful posters like Boony, Sakari, Mulder etc, as "close minded" are really off base.  It's thier openmindedness that allows them to look at "evidence" from enough angles to make a more informed opinion.

Edited by CakeOrDeath, 26 March 2012 - 04:11 PM.

[JGirl]

i have never seen a ghost. i don't think i ever will.
however, i want to believe that there is energy left behind in some places, perhaps an imprint of some sort but i don't think i believe in ghosts the way people describe them.
why do i want to believe this?
because i sense it. it's very real to me. is that evidence? no. therefore, i say i want to believe it.
i'm ready to be shown differently if the case may be.

[WhyDontYouBeliEveMe]

CakeOrDeath, on 26 March 2012 - 04:04 PM, said:

Also I totally agree with Orange, great post.  I didn't come here a "believer" or a "skeptic" honestly.  I am came here because I was curious and this site seemed less "ZoMG REALZ GHOST PIC" then some others.  After spending YEARS viewing all of the different topics, posted by Mods, members and random drive-bys, I became more convinced that there isn't any good evidence. So I am skeptical. (That does not make me a non-believer)

But the people who try to label all these intelligent, helpful posters like Boony, Sakari, Mulder etc, as "close minded" are really off base.  It's thier openmindedness that allows them to look at "evidence" from enough angles to make a more informed opinion.

here this picture . thats 1 of the most famous ghost picture that u can find out there.
i think it is real .. .no . i know it is real ..
why?  because i have seen a ghost like that . ..it had no face ,just like the 1 in the picture , ( i think it was a woman but i m not sure what is was). it was just pure white ,. and gave me an overwhelming peacefull feeling ..
boony , sakari,mulder? why walking in circels to search for the truth. when its right in front of your eyes.  

tahts why i ll say it again.    skeptic are smooth talkers.  they dont listen to the truth but only themselfs. they always needs reasoning .
searching  for evidence in wrong places.  u wont be able to find evidence online the way you are now. . .
this is all i can give you . i am proof . (whydontyoubelieveme)

try this site http://ghoststudy.co...rits_ghosts.htm there are alot of fake pictures but also alot of real ones .

you know i dont really care if some1 believe in ghost or the paranormal world or not.
or want to believe .
you believe in it or you dont.  dont try .. .. to believe it .

remember we talking about ghost. the paranormal,unexplained, stuff .
its way beyond our mind.
there is no single soul out there with a rational mind . that can explain this ..

Attached Files

•  250px-Brown_lady.jpg   16.28K   18 downloads

[_Only]

WhyDontYouBeliEveMe, on 26 March 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

here this picture . thats 1 of the most famous ghost picture that u can find out there.
i think it is real .. .no . i know it is real ..
why?  because i have seen a ghost like that . ..it had no face ,just like the 1 in the picture , ( i think it was a woman but i m not sure what is was). it was just pure white ,. and gave me an overwhelming peacefull feeling ..
boony , sakari,mulder? why walking in circels to search for the truth. when its right in front of your eyes.  

tahts why i ll say it again.    skeptic are smooth talkers.  they dont listen to the truth but only themselfs. they always needs reasoning .
searching  for evidence in wrong places.  u wont be able to find evidence online the way you are now. . .
this is all i can give you . i am proof . (whydontyoubelieveme)

try this site http://ghoststudy.co...rits_ghosts.htm there are alot of fake pictures but also alot of real ones .

you know i dont really care if some1 believe in ghost or the paranormal world or not.
or want to believe .
you believe in it or you dont.  dont try .. .. to believe it .

remember we talking about ghost. the paranormal,unexplained, stuff .
its way beyond our mind.
there is no single soul out there with a rational mind . that can explain this ..

There are ways to explain photos like that. The only problem comes in finding out exact conditions of camera and setting in photos as old as that. But some do digging: "Brown Lady" History and Research

And we do know that this effect of a "ghost" like her can be produced through camera faults. The photo then leaves 2 obvious choices that I can think of:

1. It is an example of a trick of light and exposure slightly resembling a woman, which has been confirmed can happen, and been reproduced.
2. It is an example of a ghost.

I would have to lean towards option 1. Something that we know exists. If that's the best evidence you have toward the existence of ghosts, you aren't going to be able to convince many in your stance.

And you don't know that that is a real picture of a ghost. You think. Knowing would mean you understand how, why, etc. and would be able to explain what a ghost actually is, and if they actually exist. Which you can't. You can only give your belief and opinion.

Edited by _Only, 26 March 2012 - 10:45 PM.

[JGirl]

WhyDontYouBeliEveMe, on 26 March 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

here this picture . thats 1 of the most famous ghost picture that u can find out there.
i think it is real .. .no . i know it is real ..
why?  because i have seen a ghost like that . ..it had no face ,just like the 1 in the picture , ( i think it was a woman but i m not sure what is was). it was just pure white ,. and gave me an overwhelming peacefull feeling ..
boony , sakari,mulder? why walking in circels to search for the truth. when its right in front of your eyes.  

tahts why i ll say it again.    skeptic are smooth talkers.  they dont listen to the truth but only themselfs. they always needs reasoning .
searching  for evidence in wrong places.  u wont be able to find evidence online the way you are now. . .
this is all i can give you . i am proof . (whydontyoubelieveme)

try this site http://ghoststudy.co...rits_ghosts.htm there are alot of fake pictures but also alot of real ones .

you know i dont really care if some1 believe in ghost or the paranormal world or not.
or want to believe .
you believe in it or you dont.  dont try .. .. to believe it .

remember we talking about ghost. the paranormal,unexplained, stuff .
its way beyond our mind.
there is no single soul out there with a rational mind . that can explain this ..

this is taken from the link that _Only left in his/her post:

Anomalies in the picture become apparent when a light and uncropped copy of the Brown Lady photograph is examined. The anomalies do not centre upon the figure – upon which the eye naturally concentrates – but what is going on in the foreground and background. On the left hand side as the viewer sees the picture, (i.e. on the Brown Lady’s right hand side) hangs a framed picture on the wall. Immediately beneath, seemingly hovering in the air, is a duplicate image of this picture. Equally, when one looks at the length of the banisters, they do not connect, and the angles suggest that the camera has been shaken and the staircase accidentally photographed twice. Several luminous patches are also visible which suggest a doubling of the image throughout. The copy which best demonstrates the effect is that held in the Harry Price Library in the University of London (reproduced in Anthony Hippesley Coxe’s 1973 book Haunted Britain) and copies of Shira’s original print. However, many reproductions in ghost books have used a darkened version of the print, giving the impression it was taken at night, rather than at 4 pm. Cropping of the sides of the picture has also been used to disguise the accidental doubling of images.

[Hilander]

I saw the ghost of my cat walk through my living room then run down the hall, so I am convinced.  I wasn't expecting it so I had no camera and I was in such awe of seeing her I doubt I would of  taken a picture anyway.  Never saw her again after that.

Ghosts are going to be hard to prove to someone that has never seen one and impossible to make a skeptic out of someone that has seen one.

[kitone1]

booNyzarC, on 26 March 2012 - 05:19 AM, said:

I often wonder about members such as yourself, who have roughly one post per year, and dedicate that post to communicating something of rational value...  And I ask myself, "Why don't these people with obvious common sense contribute their points of view more often?"

And then I typically get distracted by other things and members like you continue lurking without vocalizing this kind of wisdom for whatever reason(s)...  But then another one jumps in from out of the woodwork to offer a much needed voice of reason with their annual post as well.

So I'd like to take this opportunity to say thank you.  And I look forward to seeing you again next year.

Or who knows?  Maybe sooner?  I can only hope...

Cheers

Edit:  So much for just one post per year...  you've had at least 3 this very day.  Please don't stop.

Conversely, I have to wonder about members that post approximately 5,000 replies in a year and a half in forums based on a topic that they evidently have no belief in just to proffer the same redundant, condescending, narrowly constricted thoughts over and over and over. Ive been lurking UM since '05 and it it sure seems that they were able to differentiate objective skepticism from self aggrandizing pomposity back then.

I also remember when this paranormal section used to be a hub for people to post photos/videos/audio from their ongoing and active investigations without the barrage of insufferable bores that seldom leave mom's basement descending like vultures to shred them with their pedantic,unenlightened knee-jerk reactionary cynicism. The skeptics back then were very supportive and encouraging while at the same time maintaining a strict adherence to the Principle Of Occam's Razor. (Google it)  

No wonder the view points have dropped so much over the last few years.

Edited by kitone1, 27 March 2012 - 12:55 AM.

[kitone1]

orangepeaceful79, on 20 March 2012 - 03:20 AM, said:

My views and beliefs are constantly evolving as I absorb new information.  A year ago I would have been on the other side of the fence honestly.  And truth be told I came to UM a believer in paranormal things.  If anything UM showed me that all the things I had previously considered to be proof of the paranormal could easily be explained, and that realization upped the bar for what I consider to be evidence.  Thus my skepticism was born.  

Someday maybe evidence will be gathered and studied and some of the things i am skeptical of will be proven to exist.  I'll happily change my mind.  I miss believing in paranormal things.  The world is a more fun place when its full of real ghosts and bigfoots and mokele mbembes.    

I'm not a skeptic because I like pissing people off.  I don't even like conflict.  I just have a requirement for evidence and data that didn't exist in me before I came to this site.  So in reality, all you believers around here created a skeptic.  

Let's put this into perspective; you joined UM in January of 2012 and since then this internet forum membership has completely altered your perception of reality, world views, belief system and life philosophies? Alas, malleable minds must think alike.

How are you on the  faked moon landing conspiracy theory? Whatever you do, don't join "Christwire"    

If everyone thought this way, Fermi Lab physicists would have stopped searching for the top quark years ago. Einsteins theories were just that; theories based on his observations and calculations.  

Edited by kitone1, 27 March 2012 - 01:00 AM.

[booNyzarC]

kitone1, on 27 March 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

Conversely, I have to wonder about members that post approximately 5,000 replies in a year and a half in forums based on a topic that they evidently have no belief in just to proffer the same redundant, condescending, narrowly constricted thoughts over and over and over. Ive been lurking UM since '05 and it it sure seems that they were able to differentiate objective skepticism from self aggrandizing pomposity back then.

I also remember when this paranormal section used to be a hub for people to post photos/videos/audio from their ongoing and active investigations without the barrage of insufferable bores that seldom leave mom's basement descending like vultures to shred them with their pedantic,unenlightened knee-jerk reactionary cynicism. The skeptics back then were very supportive and encouraging while at the same time maintaining a strict adherence to the Principle Of Occam's Razor. (Google it)  

No wonder the view points have dropped so much over the last few years.

In your last 7 years of lurking have you come across any piece of evidence which can prove the existence of anything paranormal?

[ColoradoParanormal]

WhyDontYouBeliEveMe, on 26 March 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

pathetic lol .. just admit it people like you  just cant  accept the truth .
evidence and proof? there's alot of it ..  2 bad you cant see the differences between real images ,videos. of ghost ... and photoshop material . ..
in the eyes of a skeptic .. everything is fake .
even 100 % proof of a ghostly picture couldnt possible convince a skeptic.  its better to talk to a wall ..

seriuosly . tell me . can you handle the truth?

I really hope you're just playing and not serious with your comments?? I've been in this field as a professional "2nd" job for many many years, and have to tell you that the longer I investigate, the more information we receive, how in-depth our Standard of Operations procedure evolves, the evidence is vanishing with every day. Out of 394 studies we have done, 1% holds up against our SOP and is considered credible evidence. And that 1% has been reviewed by the Professor we report to and he has sent it to a colleague as an independent researcher with a group of scientists at Berkley along with our SOP to be audited, added to, reduced etc..  

Before you comment and think you're going to "best" me here, do some research, look at my profile and get where I'm coming from and how I can make such claims with certainty and credibility my friend.

I also might add, I was physically accosted by a force unseen to me or my girlfriend at the time. I got slammed so hard that I turned to fight thinking someone REALLY was attacking me in my old apt on the base. My girlfriend at the time saw it happen, and thought I was pulling her leg, until she saw the anger and confusion on my face.  The reason I'm telling you this is, even though I had something VERY REAL happen to me, I would NEVER use it as evidence, nor claim it to be evidence, because it's nothing more than a personal experience. It doesn't hold any merit in the scientific procedure or the SOP we're creating. It's NOT evidence. Are you catching my drift?

Even if you're a believer, you have a duty and you need to maintain an un-bias, tactical and scientific approach to all of this.

Edited by ColoradoParanormal, 27 March 2012 - 01:47 AM.

[kitone1]

booNyzarC, on 27 March 2012 - 01:10 AM, said:

In your last 7 years of lurking have you come across any piece of evidence which can prove the existence of anything paranormal?

Wow a whole 21 minutes elapsed before you responded, what a surprise.    

You mean “evidence” posted in an internet forum Aristotle? Please do elucidate me on precisely what “evidence” is not subject to tampering in this medium?  (And yes EXIF data CAN be altered sonny.)
Yet another genius that has based his entire belief system on the internet and basic cable  

[booNyzarC]

kitone1, on 27 March 2012 - 01:52 AM, said:

Wow a whole 21 minutes elapsed before you responded, what a surprise.    

You mean “evidence” posted in an internet forum Aristotle? Please do elucidate me on precisely what “evidence” is not subject to tampering in this medium?  (And yes EXIF data CAN be altered sonny.)
Yet another genius that has based his entire belief system on the internet and basic cable  

Should I take that as a no?

[_Only]

Hilander, on 27 March 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

I saw the ghost of my cat walk through my living room then run down the hall, so I am convinced.  I wasn't expecting it so I had no camera and I was in such awe of seeing her I doubt I would of  taken a picture anyway.  Never saw her again after that.

Ghosts are going to be hard to prove to someone that has never seen one and impossible to make a skeptic out of someone that has seen one.

You know your brain is perfectly capable of producing that cat too, though, right?

And it isn't impossible to be skeptical after a personal sighting. I've seen what appeared to be a shadow person (once in the day, and once at night) and am still skeptical about what it is that I actually experienced.

Edited by _Only, 27 March 2012 - 01:58 AM.