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Livio C. Stecchini


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#16    bom shankra

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:49 AM

View PostHarte, on 18 February 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

I realize you didn't start out with that.

However, I explained to you not only the proportion used by the Ancient Egyptians to build the pyramid, but also their method of measuring angles.

The pyramid next door, Kephren's, was built using the proportion 21:1 (21 fingers "in" to 1 cubit - 28 fingers - up.)

Manipulation of the same measurements used by the fringe on the Great Pyramid yeilds almost exactly 3 on Kephren's pyramid for exactly the same reasons:
21: 28 when manipulated leads to the ratio 84:28.  84/28 = 3.


You can play with numbers all day long but in the end, the fact is that the GP was constructed with a slope of 22 fingers "in" for each cubit up, with the cubit (again) equal to 28 fingers. And it is this ratio that is manipulated using unexplained methods to arrive at pi and phi.

Exact proportions like these (whole number fingers per cubit) can be found on every pyramid built by the Ancient Egyptians.  Every single one.


It's true that I've made up my mind.  You have only rehashed some of the things I've looked at in the past.  Your posts on this are nothing new to me.
Was I supposed to remain undecided until you decided to post materials I've already considered in making up my mind?

My mind was made up upon examining the actual evidence that we actually have.  Not by deciding what could or couldn't have been.  I understand what you are trying to imply here and I assure you that in my case, I've thoroughly researched the facts of the matter and found the claims you mentioned here to be baseless.

What is so hard about the 22:28 ratio?  It leads to every number you claim, and it does not involve pi  or phi at all.

I told you the value the Egyptians used at the time for pi.  If they knew what pi was, why would they do this?



There's no question that pretty much all ancient peoples, and likely Homo Erectus, recognized the equinox and solstices.  The Ancient Egyptians absolutely did.

What of it?  It takes no real knowledge to do this, nor any real technology to predict these dates.

Speculation that such observations "could have" led to some sort of science, a science that we have not a shred of evidence for, is a parlor game, not a logical discussion. It could be fun, but I'm not interested, given what I already know.

Harte
appreciate the input harte, I will take your comments into consideration, I was already thinking that it might be the golden section that is really the governing concept, Stecchini does couch his theories in such convoluted language... hell, 'manipulation' even crossed my mind, but I like to tick all the boxes before I dismiss altogether.

Just out of interest, whos survey on the G.P. do you think is most accurate, Petrie, or cole? ....My corespondence with the "expert" that I mentioned a few posts above has hit a brick wall on this point.  I'm inclined to believe Cole's was the best to date - he uncovered the remaining casing stones, and established exactly where 3 of the four corner sockets were, where as Petrie had difficulty with this. Petrie however probably spent longer on his triangulations, and had a larger theodolite(10 inch apparently ...ooh err) I believe it could measure a second of a degree, which is equivalent to the distances subtended by a dime at the distance of a mile!  however, Petrie survey was 50 years earlier, and i might if I dare mention that he was a man of god, and possibly had  lofty aspirations. His survey of the kings chamber is recognized as second to none, but the exact perimeter of the G.P.???

On the theory of the palms and cubits, all I can say is Why? The A.E.s leveled the ground, aligned it to true north, but when it came to the slope they just said 22 in 28 will be fine?

Also, as to Pi, I could give you pi to 5 decimals with string and a stick in the sand, so why not pi? what if some of the actual evidence is missing - you migh be missing out on something, or have misunderstood something that could overturn prevailing notions.


for general interest, the following is an excerpt from Secrets or the Pyramids pp. 212:

sexagesimal, Decimal and Quaternary Relations of Ancient Egytian Units of Measure:


60 palms = 1 canne
60 feet = 1 short schoenion
60 decapodes = 1 stadium  
60 short schoenia = 1 herabic mile
60 plethra = 1 egyptian mile or minmute of degree

60 stadia   = 1  grand scoenia
60 egytian miles    = 1 degree of moira
60 grand scoenia   = 1 sexagesime
60 sexagesimes = 1 circumference of the globe

10 egyptian feet = 1 decapode
10 egyptian cubits = 1 canne oe egyptian pole
10 orgyie or brasses = 1 short schoenioin
10 decapodes = 1 plethron
10 cannes   =1 side of land unit of 100 cubits (aurora?)

10 short schoenia   = 1 stadium
10 stadia = 1 egyptian mile
10 grand scoenia    = 1 degree of longitude

4 fingers   = 1 palm
4 palms = 1 foot
4 cubits = 1 orgyie  or brasse
4 cannes   = 1 short schoenion
4 sides of 100 cubits (aroura?) = 1 stadium

Edited by bom shankra, 20 February 2013 - 06:57 AM.

Whats happening here? I can't add URL links on my signature (to legal streeming music sites such as smithsonian folkways radio / adelaide community "3D radio - 5DDD") -  have I been disabled???, I did post a link to a bob dylan video on my 'profile feed' a few weeks ago that might have been dubious, it got deleted, by someone anyway, very sorry guys!!! But why did the legitimate links on my signature also get wiped? - and I say, I seem to be disabled now :td: .

#17    bom shankra

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:53 AM

View Postthird_eye, on 18 February 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

The AEs might not know our pi but we sure as hell recognize their pi

and we all end up with four equal slices by both pi

that's a good enough pi in my pi book
so you could say your Pi-hapy!   (trans - Nilopolis) - sorry mate, I don't think it googles... :no:

Whats happening here? I can't add URL links on my signature (to legal streeming music sites such as smithsonian folkways radio / adelaide community "3D radio - 5DDD") -  have I been disabled???, I did post a link to a bob dylan video on my 'profile feed' a few weeks ago that might have been dubious, it got deleted, by someone anyway, very sorry guys!!! But why did the legitimate links on my signature also get wiped? - and I say, I seem to be disabled now :td: .

#18    third_eye

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:44 AM

View Postbom shankra, on 20 February 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

so you could say your Pi-hapy!   (trans - Nilopolis) - sorry mate, I don't think it googles... :no:

Quote

Nilópolis is a city and a municipality in Brazil, located in the Rio de Janeiro state's southwestern region, bordering São João de Meriti, Mesquita and Rio de Janeiro.

If it's Carnivale time, I be having no problems, be it googles or don't :D

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#19    Harte

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 01:38 PM

View Postbom shankra, on 20 February 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Just out of interest, whos survey on the G.P. do you think is most accurate, Petrie, or cole? ....My corespondence with the "expert" that I mentioned a few posts above has hit a brick wall on this point.  I'm inclined to believe Cole's was the best to date - he uncovered the remaining casing stones, and established exactly where 3 of the four corner sockets were, where as Petrie had difficulty with this. Petrie however probably spent longer on his triangulations, and had a larger theodolite(10 inch apparently ...ooh err) I believe it could measure a second of a degree, which is equivalent to the distances subtended by a dime at the distance of a mile!  however, Petrie survey was 50 years earlier, and i might if I dare mention that he was a man of god, and possibly had  lofty aspirations. His survey of the kings chamber is recognized as second to none, but the exact perimeter of the G.P.???
I couldn't really say.  Petrie's is used most often by the fringe regarding pi and phi, however.

See, I'm more of an expert on fringe claims than I am on Ancient Egypt! LOL  It's sort of a hobby.

View Postbom shankra, on 20 February 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

On the theory of the palms and cubits, all I can say is Why? The A.E.s leveled the ground, aligned it to true north, but when it came to the slope they just said 22 in 28 will be fine?
The method for measuring angles was the same - so many fingers "in" for each cubit up.  Given that an angle for the slopes of the sides had to be predetermined, and given that this was their method for measuring angles, I don't see what choice they had.

View Postbom shankra, on 20 February 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Also, as to Pi, I could give you pi to 5 decimals with string and a stick in the sand, so why not pi? what if some of the actual evidence is missing - you migh be missing out on something, or have misunderstood something that could overturn prevailing notions.
What is known is that at the time the Egyptians concept of fractions was limited to parts of a whole - exactly like their angle measuring.  Pi cannot be expressed that way, as you know.  As far as decimals, they never had such a system, so your method was not possible for them.

Harte

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#20    bom shankra

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:43 PM

sorry, not nilopolis near Rio,
this one:


from web page by a Alan watts

Quote


We will call the parallel that divides Lower from Upper Egypt the prime parallel and where it crossed the prime meridian was the geodetic centre of Archaic Egypt. The point was called Pi Hapy (or Nilopolis) and it lay on the southern tip of an island in the Nile which today is called Al Warraq. The prime observational centre of Heliopolis was established as close as possible to Pi Hapy and observations made there were, to all intents and purposes, the same as if made from Pi Hapy which was out of reach during the Nile floods.

It would seem that in ancient days Pi Hapy was considered to be the centre of the world. For instance the projection of one of the most significant of the pre-historic maps of the world – the so-called Piri Re’is map is centred on that point. Also several authors have noted that Pi Hapy occupies the centre of the habitable landmass of the world. Graham Hancock and Robert Bauval illustrated this in their book Keepers of Genesis. While Joseph Blumrich makes the point in the Spaceships of Ezekiel that the area of the Middle East encompassed by Egypt, Mesopotamia and Palestine was uniquely suited to a race with space potential who wanted a central base for their operations across the world. Zecharia Sitchin in When Time Began goes further and delineates the exclusion zone which he believes was used as a landing area for extraterrestrial spacecraft.


might be a 'fringie' carnival going on, I count 4 in one paragraph, some E.T.'s, and piri reis thrown in for good measure! (smoulder on that harte :o )

Whats happening here? I can't add URL links on my signature (to legal streeming music sites such as smithsonian folkways radio / adelaide community "3D radio - 5DDD") -  have I been disabled???, I did post a link to a bob dylan video on my 'profile feed' a few weeks ago that might have been dubious, it got deleted, by someone anyway, very sorry guys!!! But why did the legitimate links on my signature also get wiped? - and I say, I seem to be disabled now :td: .

#21    third_eye

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:14 AM

@'bom shankra'




You mean this Nilopolis :

Quote

Nilopolis or Delas was a city in Egypt situated on the left bank of the Nile, about forty-seven miles from Memphis.

It is a Roman Catholic titular bishopric and a suffragan of the metropolitan of Oxyrynchos, in Egypt.
According to Ptolemy (IV, v, 26) the city was situated on an island of the Nile in the Heraclean nome.

Eusebius ("Hist. eccl.", VI, xli) states that it had a bishop, Cheremon, during the persecution of Decius; others are mentioned a little later.

"The Chronicle of John of Nikiou" (559) alludes to this city in connection with the occupation of Egypt by the Muslims, and it is also referred to by Arabian medieval geographers under its original name of Delas. In the fourteenth century it paid 20,000 dinars in taxes, which indicates a place of some importance.

In the khedival period, Delas was a part of the moudirieh of Beni-Suef in the district of El-Zaouiet, and had about 2500 inhabitants of whom nearly 1000 were nomadic Bedouins.
from NationMaster

Quote

Nilopolis (114 words)


Article Table Of Contents
Nilopolis
(Νείλου πόλις/ Neílou pólis).

[German version]
[1] Settlement in Middle Egypt

Settlement in Middle Egypt, 13 km north of Banī Suwaif, Coptic Tilodj, modern Dalāṣ. The settlement is not known from ancient Egyptian times; N. was a diocesan town in the Christian period.
Jansen-Winkeln, Karl (Berlin)

[German version]
[2] Village in the Fayum

Village in the Fayum, near Soknopaiou Nesos, modern Tall ar-Ruṣaṣ, with an Isis cult. Known from numerous papyrus finds from th…

Citation
"Nilopolis." Brill’s New Pauly. Brill Online, 2013. Reference. 21 February 2013 <http://referenceworks.brillonline.com/entries/brill-s-new-pauly/nilopolis-e823420>

from Brill Reference

from Word In Context

from Karanis :: Claremont Coptic Encyclopedia

I got a few hits from google books excerpts.

Edited by third_eye, 21 February 2013 - 04:16 AM.

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#22    bom shankra

bom shankra

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:00 AM

thanks 3rd Eye, one click further on from your world in context link lead me to this "The Religion of Ancient Egypt by W. M. Flinders Petrie" http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/29010 free e-book!!!!

bom-shankra likes free-e books.


heres a few links  I've refered to whilst weighing up Livio Stechhini:

http://www.ronaldbir...Cole Survey.pdf  coles report of the government survey 0f 1925
http://archive.org/d...onscarrie01howa download the PDF of Howard Vyse's "Operations carried on at the pyramids of Gizeh in 1837: with an account of a voyage into Upper Egypt, and an appendix"
http://www.metrum.or...amids/index.htm Livio Stechhini's on line doc, "the pyramids of Egypt" (this link might be broken, check yourself).

also, there's a reference in stecchinis work to a book called Hamlets Mill: available free on-line (highly recomend).

Vyse's account (above) is good also, takes you on a journey back in time!









Whats happening here? I can't add URL links on my signature (to legal streeming music sites such as smithsonian folkways radio / adelaide community "3D radio - 5DDD") -  have I been disabled???, I did post a link to a bob dylan video on my 'profile feed' a few weeks ago that might have been dubious, it got deleted, by someone anyway, very sorry guys!!! But why did the legitimate links on my signature also get wiped? - and I say, I seem to be disabled now :td: .

#23    third_eye

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:08 AM

View Postbom shankra, on 21 February 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

thanks 3rd Eye, one click further on from your world in context link lead me to this "The Religion of Ancient Egypt by W. M. Flinders Petrie" http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/29010 free e-book!!!!

bom-shankra likes free-e books.


heres a few links  I've refered to whilst weighing up Livio Stechhini:

http://www.ronaldbir...Cole Survey.pdf  coles report of the government survey 0f 1925
http://archive.org/d...onscarrie01howa download the PDF of Howard Vyse's "Operations carried on at the pyramids of Gizeh in 1837: with an account of a voyage into Upper Egypt, and an appendix"
http://www.metrum.or...amids/index.htm Livio Stechhini's on line doc, "the pyramids of Egypt" (this link might be broken, check yourself).

also, there's a reference in stecchinis work to a book called Hamlets Mill: available free on-line (highly recomend).

Vyse's account (above) is good also, takes you on a journey back in time!

I must say I recognize a few of those links :rofl:
Gimme your links to Hamlets Mill , any of them new research revised versions ?

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#24    bom shankra

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:35 AM

View PostHarte, on 20 February 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:



What is known is that at the time the Egyptians concept of fractions was limited to parts of a whole - exactly like their angle measuring.  Pi cannot be expressed that way, as you know.  As far as decimals, they never had such a system, so your method was not possible for them.


Parts of a whole?  you mean a fraction?  ( I know you mean like 2 cubits, 14 fingers right... not 2 and a half.)

One other thing I meant to say was The idea of working out a geographical degree, which is ascribed to Eratosthenes.  If you examine how it is suggested he did it, it is by no means a special technique.  out of laziness here it is from Wiki:

Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the Earth without leaving Egypt. Eratosthenes knew that, on the summer solstice, at local noon in the Ancient Egyptian city of Swenet (known in Greek as Syene, and in the modern day as Aswan) on the Tropic of Cancer, the sun would appear at the zenith, directly overhead (he had been told that the shadow of someone looking down a deep well would block the reflection of the Sun at noon). Using a gnomon, he measured the sun's angle of elevation at noon on the solstice in his hometown of Alexandria, and found it to be 1/50th of a circle (7°12') south of the zenith. Assuming that the Earth was spherical (360°), and that Alexandria was due north of Syene, he concluded that the meridian arc distance from Alexandria to Syene must therefore be 1/50 = 7°12'/360°, and was therefore 1/50 of the total circumference of the Earth. His knowledge of the size of Egypt after many generations of surveying trips for the Pharaonic bookkeepers gave a distance between the cities of 5,000 stadia (about 500 geographical miles or 927.7 km). This distance was corroborated by inquiring about the time that it takes to travel from Syene to Alexandria by camel. He rounded the result to a final value of 700 stadia per degree, which implies a circumference of 252,000 stadia. The exact size of the stadion he used is frequently debated. The common Attic stadion was about 185 m,[9] which would imply a circumference of 46,620 km, which is off the actual circumference by 16.3%; too large an error to be considered as 'accurate'. However, if we assume that Eratosthenes used the "Egyptian stadion"[10] of about 157.5 m, his measurement turns out to be 39,690 km, an error of less than 2%.[11]

now a gnomon is merely a sundial? (I thought it might be a sextant, which even then is merely a sight, pendulum, and a graduated scale), we've already established solstice was known to the cro magnums. noon, is the highest point the sun reaches in the sky, Due north doesnt't seem to be a difficult one for the A.E's, and distance between sites can even in a rudimentary way be calculated by a marching expidition.  So what did they lack in the 4th dynasty that Erastosthenes had or knew?  BTW, where did Eratosthenes work :- He was the third chief librarian of the Great Library of Alexandria.  so as the conjecture goes, who knows what he might have perused in there and attempted to pass off has his own endeavour?

and greek maths etc, is the idea that pythagoras and others studied under egyptian priesthood a fallacy?  If you know its not the case, please dish the dirt.


Just my respectful  3 cents worth.

Edited by bom shankra, 21 February 2013 - 09:50 AM.

Whats happening here? I can't add URL links on my signature (to legal streeming music sites such as smithsonian folkways radio / adelaide community "3D radio - 5DDD") -  have I been disabled???, I did post a link to a bob dylan video on my 'profile feed' a few weeks ago that might have been dubious, it got deleted, by someone anyway, very sorry guys!!! But why did the legitimate links on my signature also get wiped? - and I say, I seem to be disabled now :td: .

#25    bom shankra

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:47 AM

View Postthird_eye, on 21 February 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

I must say I recognize a few of those links :rofl:
Gimme your links to Hamlets Mill , any of them new research revised versions ?

http://www.bibliotec...letmill.htm#top

its interesting, the commentary by John Major Jenkins mentions the Maya, and says 21/12/2012 is just aroud the corner ( not sure if he's talking about the premier),.... he says that in general the book is a bit lacking when it comes to the Americas, especially in the light of recent investigations.

Whats happening here? I can't add URL links on my signature (to legal streeming music sites such as smithsonian folkways radio / adelaide community "3D radio - 5DDD") -  have I been disabled???, I did post a link to a bob dylan video on my 'profile feed' a few weeks ago that might have been dubious, it got deleted, by someone anyway, very sorry guys!!! But why did the legitimate links on my signature also get wiped? - and I say, I seem to be disabled now :td: .

#26    third_eye

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:32 AM

View Postbom shankra, on 21 February 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

http://www.bibliotec...letmill.htm#top

its interesting, the commentary by John Major Jenkins mentions the Maya, and says 21/12/2012 is just aroud the corner ( not sure if he's talking about the premier),.... he says that in general the book is a bit lacking when it comes to the Americas, especially in the light of recent investigations.

I have that link, I don't like the site, they take take many "liberites" with translations.

Quote

There are problems with Hamlet’s Mill, but they are more in terms of the book’s organization rather than a faulty reasoning. However, some citations, especially those of Mesoamerican myth, are somewhat off the mark. In this case, the reason may have more to do with the embryonic state of Mesoamerican studies in the 1960s. As for other glitches, these hurried flaws can be explained when we consider the context in which the book was written. Giorgio de Santillana published a book of his own the previous year and was still lecturing at M.I.T., so his work load during the late 1960s must have been intense. In fact, he was ill at the time. As William Irwin Thompson writes:


"Professor de Santillana worked on editing von Dechend when he was sick and near death, and so this book is not the best expression of their theories. Encyclopedic, but rambling, it is often as chaotic as it is cranky. This weakness, however, should not mislead the reader. The work is very important in seeking to recover the astronomical and cosmological dimensions of mythic narratives"

(Thompson 1982:268-269).


from the commentary page

Ta anyway :tu:

Edited by third_eye, 21 February 2013 - 10:34 AM.

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#27    Harte

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:31 PM

View Postbom shankra, on 21 February 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

Parts of a whole?  you mean a fraction?  ( I know you mean like 2 cubits, 14 fingers right... not 2 and a half.)
Like what part of a whole cubit is one finger.

View Postbom shankra, on 21 February 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

So what did they lack in the 4th dynasty that Erastosthenes had or knew?  BTW, where did Eratosthenes work :- He was the third chief librarian of the Great Library of Alexandria.  so as the conjecture goes, who knows what he might have perused in there and attempted to pass off has his own endeavour?
What did they lack?  They lacked the Greek method of calculating arcs, which cannot be done without a reasonable version of pi.

You should look into the history of pi.

Regarding the Library, it is extremely unlikely that there was even a single work in Alexandria that dated to the any dynasty in the Old Kingdom, or even the Middle Kingdom.  And unlikely that there was even any document of significance from any Ancient Egyptian time period.

The Library was a collection of writings that were physically taken from merchants (mostly) that came to Alexandria under the pretense that the Library wanted to copy them and return them.  Typically, the owner got the copy and the Library kept the original.

Obviously, some works were written at the Library and kept there, but note the name of the city and then consider the lifespan of Alexander.

View Postbom shankra, on 21 February 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

and greek maths etc, is the idea that pythagoras and others studied under egyptian priesthood a fallacy?  If you know its not the case, please dish the dirt.
Pythagoras didn't know pi either.  The Pythagoreans are often credited with the discovery of the set of irrational numbers, but Pythagoras is not.  The very idea runs against Pythagoras' own established ideas of philosophy.

Harte

Edited by Harte, 21 February 2013 - 01:32 PM.

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#28    bom shankra

bom shankra

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:34 PM

View Postthird_eye, on 21 February 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:


I don't like the site, they take take many "liberites" with translations.

no worries - buyer beware then!



Why was – and is – Hamlet’s Mill controversial? In The New York Review of Books, Sir Edmund Ronald Leach, a British social anthropologist, wrote disparagingly:
. . . the murky confusion generated by reading any random twenty pages of Hamlet’s Mill is strongly reminiscent of Frobenius. Indeed, the whole operation is not much more than a gloss on two early works of that extraordinary author, Die Mathematik der Oceaner (1900) and Das Zeitalter des Sonnengottes (1904).
The theme of Hamlet’s Mill is that once upon a time (when or where is not very clear, but 4000 B.C. somewhere in the Middle East seems to be what the authors have in mind) there was an archaic civilization whose members had a sophisticated theory of the relations between time and astronomy. This theory rested on an understanding of the annual cycle of the constellations of the Zodiac and a recognition of the precession of the equinoxes, knowledge of which had been incorporated into a coherent cosmological schema expressed in the language of myth. Later mythological systems whether recorded in Greece in the fourth century B.C., in Scandinavia in the twelfth century A.D., or North Africa, or Guiana, or Polynesia at the present day, are all truncated remnants of this ancient astrological-astronomical mythology, and close attention to these “relics, fragments and allusions that have survived the steep attrition of the ages” will allow part of the ancient knowledge to be reconstructed.4

In response, Dr. de Santillana wrote concerning this “specialized scholar”:
Mr. Leach, the English anthropologist chosen to review my book, is cited by you as the author of several books dealing with the tribal relations of primitive villages, especially of the Far East. Dr. von Dechend and I, co-authors of Hamlet’s Mill, are historians of science, to which anthropology is a recent and very “step” relation. Moreover, ten years of specific studies in technical astronomy, ancient and archaeological history and myth lie behind the writing of Hamlet’s Mill. Mr. Leach was assigned by your publication a whole page in which to evaluate the book for an American audience innocent of his lack of authority—a lack of authority which is not suggested in his own comment except for his kind allusion to the reputation of the authors. The review itself, couched in irrelevant and inapplicable terms, nonetheless implies an expert knowledge in the field of the book and is made none the more graceful by its offensively jocular tone.
In the publishing of over twenty books in my career, I have never before written to protest an adverse review. This one was so totally unjustified that I must ask you to give this letter of protest equal space and prominence with Mr. Leach’s review.5

Edited by bom shankra, 24 February 2013 - 08:35 PM.

Whats happening here? I can't add URL links on my signature (to legal streeming music sites such as smithsonian folkways radio / adelaide community "3D radio - 5DDD") -  have I been disabled???, I did post a link to a bob dylan video on my 'profile feed' a few weeks ago that might have been dubious, it got deleted, by someone anyway, very sorry guys!!! But why did the legitimate links on my signature also get wiped? - and I say, I seem to be disabled now :td: .

#29    bom shankra

bom shankra

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 12:24 PM

View PostHarte, on 21 February 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

Like what part of a whole cubit is one finger.


What did they lack?  They lacked the Greek method of calculating arcs, which cannot be done without a reasonable version of pi.

You should look into the history of pi.

Regarding the Library, it is extremely unlikely that there was even a single work in Alexandria that dated to the any dynasty in the Old Kingdom, or even the Middle Kingdom.  And unlikely that there was even any document of significance from any Ancient Egyptian time period.

The Library was a collection of writings that were physically taken from merchants (mostly) that came to Alexandria under the pretense that the Library wanted to copy them and return them.  Typically, the owner got the copy and the Library kept the original.

Obviously, some works were written at the Library and kept there, but note the name of the city and then consider the lifespan of Alexander.


Pythagoras didn't know pi either.  The Pythagoreans are often credited with the discovery of the set of irrational numbers, but Pythagoras is not.  The very idea runs against Pythagoras' own established ideas of philosophy.

Harte

I've been exploring the idea of measuring latitude using cad to illustrate: I drew a gnomon, or obelisk ( I made it 32 meters, and assumed a mid day shadow on equinox of 4 meters, you can use cubits or whatever you prefer...)
Ob1
Uploaded 01 Mar 2013 - 11:33

so what I am proposing is a great circle be drawn in sand using string attached to a stake (lets say its 1:1 scale), then draw a vertical from center to the circumferance (rope pulled tight for a straight edge). next draw the 4 meter perpendicular line representing extent of shadow. connect the end of this line to the center.
Ob2
Uploaded 01 Mar 2013 - 11:33

final stage, I thought I would divide into 50 ( I thought we could use multiples of 5 as we've established, the A.E.'s could produce a golden rectangle, but what ever takes your fancy, the division is not the point)
Ob3
Uploaded 01 Mar 2013 - 11:33

so from this If we knew that the distance from Syene on the tropic of cancer where the noon sun on the equinox is directly over head was 800km away from our obelisk at Alexandria, and the shadow there is represented roughly as in the above sketch, then we can say that the polar circumference of the earth is that distance (800km) times by 50.  (i.e.40 000km). no angles or fractions, and not so much as a slice of Pi.

The other idea casually proposed by stecchini is measurement of longitude at a given parallel, It can be done by observing the rising of a Zenith star rising in the east, and simultaneously signaling to an observer out just over the horizon in the western desert, the time elapsed till the star rises on the observers horizon times by distance he is away gives the basis for establishing the circumferance of the parallel.

So if it's done on the 30th parallel, and the observer is 6km away, the elapsed time will be approx 15 seconds. (1 degree at 30th parallel= 96.49km, * 360 = 34736.4km circumference of parallel)

24 hours * 60 minutes = 1440 minutes

34736km / 1440 minutes  = aprox 24km per minute, or 6km in a 1/4 minute (15 sec)

please dont repeat again to me the A.E.s didn't use Deg,min,sec or hours min,sec.  Thats only relevent to the Stecchinis theory that the dimensions of the G.P. represent the northern hemisphere to scale, and that is a totally seperate argument!  substitute for whatever units you like, it only matters that you have a scale of time based on a revolution of the earth, and for distance use whatever you like.

Whats happening here? I can't add URL links on my signature (to legal streeming music sites such as smithsonian folkways radio / adelaide community "3D radio - 5DDD") -  have I been disabled???, I did post a link to a bob dylan video on my 'profile feed' a few weeks ago that might have been dubious, it got deleted, by someone anyway, very sorry guys!!! But why did the legitimate links on my signature also get wiped? - and I say, I seem to be disabled now :td: .

#30    Harte

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 09:09 PM

View Postbom shankra, on 01 March 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

so from this If we knew that the distance from Syene on the tropic of cancer where the noon sun on the equinox is directly over head was 800km away from our obelisk at Alexandria, and the shadow there is represented roughly as in the above sketch, then we can say that the polar circumference of the earth is that distance (800km) times by 50.  (i.e.40 000km). no angles or fractions, and not so much as a slice of Pi.

True, pi isn't used there.

However, you are using proportions.  Proportions are ratios that are equal.  Ratios are fractions.

It'd be a trick for the AE's of the Old Kingdom to measure 800 km (or however many cubits that is) so, were they to somehow and for some reason use this method even without knowing what a proportion was, they'd likely use a shorter distance.

Let's also note that the Old Kingdom Egyptians actually believed the entire world to be a flat disk.  So, apparently they never tried this since any noticeable variation in the shadow length at noon would indicate to anyone that the Earth has curvature, at the very least.

Harte

I've consulted all the sages I could find in yellow pages but there aren't many of them. - The Alan Parsons Project
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong. - Thomas Jefferson
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