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Livio C. Stecchini


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#31    bom shankra

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 07:59 AM

View PostHarte, on 01 March 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

True, pi isn't used there.
However, you are using proportions.

proportions???~ surely your just being intentionally obtuse!!!   Be specific harte, or I can't answer.


If the A.E.s could lay out a near perfect square for the base of the pyramid, they could do what I'm suggesting. Its all just straight edge and dividers construction.

And the method proposed by Eratosthenes would have had exactly the same problem with distance. (BTW, Stecchini believed that the A.E's new the length of their land down to the last cubit, and he also has alot to say about Eratosthenes 'amazing calculation")

View PostHarte, on 01 March 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

Let's also note that the Old Kingdom Egyptians actually believed the entire world to be a flat disk.

Any solid proof? (because that would blow stecchinis theory that thy G.P. is a representation of the northern hemisphere out of the water, and we could put this thread to bed, and all go home and not worry any more).


View PostHarte, on 01 March 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

So, apparently they never tried this since any noticeable variation in the shadow length at noon would indicate to anyone that the Earth has curvature, at the very least.

how could they have failed to notice the shadow lengh, it was within their kingdom for the begining of their history after all!!

Do me a favour and read, (or re-read or whatever) Stecchinis work presented here http://www.metrum.or...easurements.htm, and then come back with a solid critique that will really convince me. What doesn't convince me are one sentence throw away remarks.


thanks anyway.

Edited by bom shankra, 02 March 2013 - 08:06 AM.

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#32    third_eye

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 09:14 AM

If the Pyramids are to be considered geometrically 'true' why can't the maths/measurements that it reflects be considered 'true' also if not 'precise' ?

if the numbers are 'precise' enough to be a 'true' pyramidal shape, why isn't the pyramids true enough to be 'precise' prismatoids.?

Even normal 'true' pyramids are not easy to build today.

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

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#33    Harte

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 03:56 AM

View Postbom shankra, on 02 March 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

proportions???~ surely your just being intentionally obtuse!!!   Be specific harte, or I can't answer.


If the A.E.s could lay out a near perfect square for the base of the pyramid, they could do what I'm suggesting. Its all just straight edge and dividers construction.

And the method proposed by Eratosthenes would have had exactly the same problem with distance. (BTW, Stecchini believed that the A.E's new the length of their land down to the last cubit, and he also has alot to say about Eratosthenes 'amazing calculation")



Any solid proof? (because that would blow stecchinis theory that thy G.P. is a representation of the northern hemisphere out of the water, and we could put this thread to bed, and all go home and not worry any more).




how could they have failed to notice the shadow lengh, it was within their kingdom for the begining of their history after all!!

Do me a favour and read, (or re-read or whatever) Stecchinis work presented here http://www.metrum.or...easurements.htm, and then come back with a solid critique that will really convince me. What doesn't convince me are one sentence throw away remarks.


thanks anyway.

You're welcome.

I'm not really trying to convince you.  I'm just placing other information in the thread nearby to your posts.

These things come up on google.  That's how I started posting at forums in the first place.

Why should Ancient Egyptians notice differences in shadow lengths at noon?  It's not as if those shadows are near each other.

Besides, with a flat disk Earth, you'd still get some differences in sunlight angles, if you thought the Sun was south of you (IOW, you must be on the northern half of the flat surface.)

Harte

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#34    Michael Collins

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 06:24 AM

Hello Bom Shankra in NZ,  Stecchini noticed that the internal capacity of the stone coffer in the Grt Pyramid is exactly 8 cubic cubits, = 2744 cubic hands. So what? Well someone else [Wm Gleeson in 'Before the Delusion'] noticed that 2744 is 14 cubed, thats 3 sets [a trinity] of the legendary 'body of Horus'. Gleeson explains the significance of all that in a radical and convincing account of the function of the pyramid. Worth reading
cheers, Michael


#35    Esoteric Toad

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 02:26 PM

Psycho Nut, but one that has profited from it. JMO.


#36    bom shankra

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:25 AM

View PostMichael Collins, on 12 March 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

Hello Bom Shankra in NZ,  Stecchini noticed that the internal capacity of the stone coffer in the Grt Pyramid is exactly 8 cubic cubits, = 2744 cubic hands. So what? Well someone else [Wm Gleeson in 'Before the Delusion'] noticed that 2744 is 14 cubed, thats 3 sets [a trinity] of the legendary 'body of Horus'. Gleeson explains the significance of all that in a radical and convincing account of the function of the pyramid. Worth reading
cheers, Michael
cheers for the input michael, I looked him up, and was able to find a clip of him speaking.  I think he sounds level headed, will see how it goes.

yes stecchini does note the 8 cubic 'royal' cubits (40 artabas), actually, stecchini is saying the figure is 2745.72 cubic hands, but seems satisfied that the inten was 2744. he says the royal cubit cubed = 5 artabas, and concludes that calculation was indeed intended to be by artabas. his cubit in reference to this is 526.3231, not the one of 524.1483 that features in the kings chamber and the g.p. base.

thats all I have time to comment on for now.  14 cubed is interesting.

can you explain more about body of horus?

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#37    bom shankra

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:35 AM

View PostEsoteric Toad, on 12 March 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

Psycho Nut, but one that has profited from it. JMO.
I wasn't aware of him having profited greatly from his published work, he seems to have been injured by his defence of velikovsky, and his work on the G.P. is only an appendix...unless your talking about the previous poster bill gleeson?

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#38    third_eye

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:47 AM

I know how to build my pyramid .... I just don't know how to build it as fast as they say the AEs did ........

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#39    bom shankra

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:52 AM

snippit from wiki page on stacchin 'talk' section, I've highlighted the alternative editors comments (a person identyifying himself as Reckt>)

Quote



disputed item
  • 1. "Stecchini's work had many elements of pseudoscience."(The first sentence gives him quite excellent academic credentials. Nothing he said is actually proven wrong in the article. What grounds are there other than misinformed speculation and opinion for slandering his reputation?
  • 2. "He complained he was ignored by fellow scientists." Is that grounds for calling himn a pseudoscientist?
  • 3. "His defence of Immanuel Velikovsky did of course nothing at all to help in this respect". How does Stecchini defending Immanuel Velikovsky against speculative, opinionated, slander make Stecchini a pseudo scientist? Does it make me a pseudeo scientist that I say those charges have no legs to stand on that are mentioned in the article?
  • 4. "His work on metrology, despite an impressive amount of factual knowledge, ends in pure pseudoscietific conclusions." Such as what?
  • 5. Stecchini's analysis to the geometry and methods for constructing the Great Pyramid were interpreted for a popular audience in Peter Tompkins' Secrets of the Great Pyramid with Stecchini's "Notes of the Relation of Ancient Measures to the Great Pyramid," in an appendix to the book. Stecchini allowed his impressive amount of factual knowledge to be included in an appendix to a popular book. To lable him a pseudo scientist because his work is included as an appendix to a history of more than a millenia of explorations of the Egyptians tombs and temples which includes all of the explorations NPOV is simply guilt by association. I dispute that there is any substantive reason to resort to a misinformed speculitive opinionated polemic against a reputable scholar who taught for decades with distinction at Harvard and MIT
  • Here is what Stecchini has to say about Petrie who was a highly respected archaeologist and egyptologist know for making careful measurements of a wide range of Egyptian monuments, tombs, temples, mastabas and other structures; actually one of the less contraversial egyptologists who studied the pyramids of egypt. It doesn't seem to show him as a pyramidiot.

"Petrie realized that units of length are fixed with extreme precision and appear very stable, but could not explain this precision by referring to the units of weight. If he had accepted the link between weights and length, there would not have been any problem, since he submitted as one instance of precision of weights that a group of Arab sample weights of the eighth century A.D. differ from each other of not more than a third of gram. Since it is easy to compare and preserve weights, and the units of length vary in the inverse cubic ratio of the weights, it is easy f or supporters of the old school to explain the precision and permanence of standards of length. Petrie was forced to present the absurd theory that the length of the Egyptian royal foot was determined by the length of the pendulum that swings 100,000 times in a day at latitude 30° (latitude of Memphis). This pendulum of 740.57 mm. Is the diagonal of a square the side of which is the Egyptian royal cubit of 523.62. Petrie was truly a man endowed with supreme skill as an observer and classifier of empirical data, but as a theorist he never was able to free himself from the influence of his father who directed him to the study of Egyptology and metrology in order to uphold the pyramidite cause. In one of his weak moments, Petrie also intimates that the Egyptians had the telescope; as a result there is today in the United States a particular conventicle of pyramidites dedicated to prove that the telescope was used in Egypt. In general followers of Petrie have gone back to the purity of pyramidite faith, as exemplified by A. E. Berriman in his Historical Metrology (London, 1953) and in his recent article in the Journal of Egyptian Archeology (41 ( 1955 ) , 48-50 ) . This proves how careful one must be in separating the gold from the lead in Petrie’s writings.

In order to prove that the Egyptian royal foot originally had a length of 523.62 mm. determined by the pendulum, Petrie introduced the theory of progressive lengthening. The length would have become 524 mm., in the Fourth Dynasty, when the Great Pyramid was built, to arrive at the value of 525 in the following Fifth Dynasty, But Petrie himself presented evidence of the use of a cubit of 525 mm. in the First Dynasty and also in predynastic times. It is true that the Great Pyramid was constructed by a cubit of about 524 mm., but, unless one is a pyramidite, there is no reason to believe that the standard of this construction must be taken as the official standard of Egypt. For pyramidites, the Great Pyramid is even more than the official standard of Egypt; it was erected by divine dispensation to be the standard prescribed for mankind; it is usually understood that it is the standard used in Creation and the English standard, According to some pyramidites the great pyramid should also prove that the Fahrenheit thermometric scale, used in Anglo-Saxon countries, is the only one in agreement with divine will." Rktect 19:37



also, the 'history of measurement' - 'talk section" part II is quite contentious, and worth a look

snippit here



but in practical arithmetic and meteorological skills the ancient Egyptians were true masters.

Their skills included developing a system of calculation based on unit fractions

Their system was still in use in the middle ages and included

formulas for the divisions of 2 by the odd numbers 3 to 101

unit fraction tables

division of the numbers 1-9 by 10

formulas for the area of a rectangle

formulas for the area of a triangle

formulas for the area of a circle

formulas for the volume of a cylindrical granary

equations of the first and second degree

geometric progressions

arithmetric progressions

formulas for the seked of a pyramid

formulas for the volume of a truncated pyramid

formulas for the surface area of a semicylinder

formulas for the surface area of a hemisphere

squares and square roots

the pythagorean theorem

continued fractions









Edited by bom shankra, 13 March 2013 - 04:54 AM.

Whats happening here? I can't add URL links on my signature (to legal streeming music sites such as smithsonian folkways radio / adelaide community "3D radio - 5DDD") -  have I been disabled???, I did post a link to a bob dylan video on my 'profile feed' a few weeks ago that might have been dubious, it got deleted, by someone anyway, very sorry guys!!! But why did the legitimate links on my signature also get wiped? - and I say, I seem to be disabled now :td: .

#40    bom shankra

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 05:44 AM

View Postthird_eye, on 13 March 2013 - 12:47 AM, said:

I know how to build my pyramid .... I just don't know how to build it as fast as they say the AEs did ........

I'd definately get yourself a diamond saw, if you had to use copper saws and quartz sand to cut up granite, it would take you forever and a day, at least try and get some wrought iron tools to split the granite with.
Don't forget the decending passage has to be done by a single person at a time, so allow time for that too. (make sure you've got a lot of spare copper chisels at hand for that, as they're not not going to last more than a few 'blows'.)

btw, I like the theory that the decending passage points to alpha draconis, the pole star circa 3000bc.  It aligns when the star is at the low culmination point below the celetial pole; using the low culmination saves work because it still provides a reference without being  deeper and steeper than need be.

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#41    bom shankra

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 06:03 AM

View PostHarte, on 03 March 2013 - 03:56 AM, said:



Why should Ancient Egyptians notice differences in shadow lengths at noon?  It's not as if those shadows are near each other.

Besides, with a flat disk Earth, you'd still get some differences in sunlight angles, if you thought the Sun was south of you (IOW, you must be on the northern half of the flat surface.)

Harte

I don't know for sure if they would notice the shadows.  having gnomons and obelisks could trigger the realization i'd say. I don't know the history quite well enough to make any ascertations ...

-the flat disk can be explained in an alternative way. The flat disk is the plane of the ecliptic, and often there is the reference to the four pillars in antiquity :-( out of laziness, heres a quote from Hamlets mill ;-)

Meanwhile, it is necessary to explain again what this "earth" is that modern interpreters like to take for a pancake. The mythical earth is, in fact, a plane, but this plane is not our "earth" at all, neither our globe, nor a presupposed homocentrical earth. "Earth" is the implied plane through the four points of the year, marked by the equinoxes and solstices, in other words the ecliptic. And this is why this earth is very frequently said to be quadrangular. The four "corners," that is, the zodiacal constellations rising heliacally at both the equinoxes and solstices, parts of the "frame" skambha, are the points which determine an "earth." Every world-age has its own "earth." It is for this very reason that "ends of the world" are said to take place. A new "earth" arises, when another set of zodiacal constellations brought in by the Precession determines the year points.   

Keep it coming Harte, I'm examining lots of assumptions on account of your posts ;)

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#42    third_eye

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:04 PM

Konark Temple


Quote

Located on the shoreline, now a little over 3 km from the sea, the temple takes the form of the chariot of Surya (Arka), the Sun God, and is heavily decorated with stone carving.[3] The entire complex was designed in the form of the God's huge chariot drawn by seven spirited horses on twelve pairs of exquisitely decorated wheels at its base.[4] The huge wheels carved at the base of the temple are one of the major attractions. The spokes of the wheels serve as sundials and the shadows cast by these can give the precise time of the day. The pyramidal roof soars over 30 m (98 ft) in height. The temple complex also contains erotic sculptures similar to the temple in Khajuraho.[5]
Posted Image
here

nobody pays enough attention to this little ancient plaything

Quote

The special feature of this temple is that the shrine wholly erected in the form of a huge chariot. This chariot is placed on twelve pairs of splendidly carved wheels and drawn by seven dynamic horses. According to one saying, these 12 pair of wheels symbolizes 24 hours in a day, while the other say, these wheels represent 12 months of the year. Seven days of the week are said to be the representation of seven horses. The wheels of this chariot have an interesting fact behind their formation. Each wheel has a set of eight spokes and these spokes serve as sundials. The shadows made by these sundials give exact time of the day.

http://www.culturali...ark-temple.html

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#43    bom shankra

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 05:58 PM

what age is that #3i? gnomons are supposedly in evidence since 3500 bc. :yes:

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#44    bom shankra

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 06:03 PM

just stayed up half the night reading "look no diamond saw" thread here in A.M, and in the interest of staying on topic, I'll point attention to the fact that I am having a bit of 'fun' with 3#i on the subject, i.e. being light hearted . :alien:

Edited by bom shankra, 13 March 2013 - 06:03 PM.

Whats happening here? I can't add URL links on my signature (to legal streeming music sites such as smithsonian folkways radio / adelaide community "3D radio - 5DDD") -  have I been disabled???, I did post a link to a bob dylan video on my 'profile feed' a few weeks ago that might have been dubious, it got deleted, by someone anyway, very sorry guys!!! But why did the legitimate links on my signature also get wiped? - and I say, I seem to be disabled now :td: .

#45    third_eye

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 07:04 PM

View Postbom shankra, on 13 March 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

what age is that #3i? gnomons are supposedly in evidence since 3500 bc. :yes:

you see a picture .... I see a machine made of stone ;)


Quote

The special feature of this temple is that the shrine wholly erected in the form of a huge chariot. This chariot is placed on twelve pairs of splendidly carved wheels and drawn by seven dynamic horses. According to one saying, these 12 pair of wheels symbolizes 24 hours in a day, while the other say, these wheels represent 12 months of the year. Seven days of the week are said to be the representation of seven horses. The wheels of this chariot have an interesting fact behind their formation. Each wheel has a set of eight spokes and these spokes serve as sundials. The shadows made by these sundials give exact time of the day.



Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer





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